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Old 07-06-2020, 11:25 AM   #6426
buffyslayer1
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Originally Posted by punter11235 View Post
Some trees are just very difficult for the solver with the current algorithm.
I see that you are using rake which makes it especially problematic (because while the solutions exist there are multiple ones with varying EVs so it's not really mathematically possible to purely "solve it").

Things that makes trees more difficult for the solver:
-rake (especially big one)
-overbets (especially big ones)
-paired/same rank boards


It's usually cased by Windows settings.
Try another folder, try running the installer as a normal user (not admin). It's the best to choose something like C:\PioSOLVER so you avoid protected spaces like program files, desktop etc.
Hi

I did try all these things already but no joy.
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Old 07-06-2020, 08:42 PM   #6427
EggsMcBluffin
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Punter thanks as always for the help.

I run a ton of preflop trees and one thing that's always concerned me is the following:

Do we give up a lot of accuracy in postflop solutions when we use sparse postflop strategy profiles like only one large bet/raise size.

My concerns is especially when you have nodes that enter to the flop with low Stack to Pot Ratios. Like say the flop SPR=1 if we use 50% sizings then a single postflop raise vs a single postflop bet is basically all-in, and we also could not really visit any triple barrel nodes.

Do you think we'd lose significant accuracy in the solution because of that?

Do you think we really gain any significant accuracy by using two bet sizings?

Which postflop actions/nodes have the most impact on the preflop solution?

Is it important to make sure we have lots of river nodes where both players still have enough chips to where they could reasonably get the other player to fold? Or do you think the flops and turns impact the preflop solution more?

Is it good practice to vary the bet/raise size used based on SPR in the flop nodes?
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Old 07-07-2020, 04:49 PM   #6428
straddle_me
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

I'm a rookie so please bare with me

Is there a way to save bet sizes so I don't have to fill them in each time I start up Pio?

Thanks.
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Old 07-07-2020, 04:58 PM   #6429
euilan
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Originally Posted by straddle_me View Post
I'm a rookie so please bare with me

Is there a way to save bet sizes so I don't have to fill them in each time I start up Pio?

Thanks.
Click on "save current parameters"
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Old 07-07-2020, 06:33 PM   #6430
straddle_me
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Sorry, I googled it and looked through the solver and couldn't locate "save current parameters". Can you tell me where that is?
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Old 07-07-2020, 07:03 PM   #6431
euilan
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Originally Posted by straddle_me View Post
Sorry, I googled it and looked through the solver and couldn't locate "save current parameters". Can you tell me where that is?
You mean when you are filling the bet sizes in "Postflop Tree Building and Calculations" right? So you can fill all the bet sizes you want, then in the mid you have this button "save current parameters" on the left of accuracy settings
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Old 07-08-2020, 05:34 AM   #6432
Tuquo
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Can someone explain to me what the "Add allin" / "Add allin only if less than x % of pot" exactly mean ?

I run the configuration below and got a line : 0 38 550
Init pot = 58
Eff stack = 550

So after IP bets 38 we have : pot = 38 + 58 = 96. 96 x 5 = 480 and since OOP stack is still 550 and 480 < 550, the line above should not exist if I understand what it means correctly.


tree configuration:
#TreeBuilding#V2
#Range0#KK,QQ,JJ
#Range1#KQs,QJs,JTs
#Board#Qs Jh 2h
#Pot#58
#EffectiveStacks#550
#AllinThreshold#67
#AddAllinOnlyIfLessThanThisTimesThePot#500
#MinimumBetsize#0
#UseUnifiedBetAfterRaise#False
#UnifiedBetAfterRaise#
#ForceIPBet#False
#ForceOOPBet#False
#Cap#0
#CapEnabled#False
#CapMode#NoLimit
#RemovedLines#
#ExtraLines#
#FlopConfig.BetSize#33,100
#FlopConfig.RaiseSize#3x
#FlopConfig.AddAllin#True
#FlopConfig.DonkBetSize#
#TurnConfig.BetSize#50,100
#TurnConfig.RaiseSize#3.25x
#TurnConfig.AddAllin#False
#TurnConfig.DonkBetSize#50,100
#RiverConfig.BetSize#66,100
#RiverConfig.RaiseSize#3x
#RiverConfig.AddAllin#False
#RiverConfig.DonkBetSize#100
#FlopConfigIP.BetSize#33,66
#FlopConfigIP.RaiseSize#3x
#FlopConfigIP.AddAllin#True
#FlopConfigIP.Dont3bet#False
#TurnConfigIP.BetSize#50,100
#TurnConfigIP.RaiseSize#3x
#TurnConfigIP.AddAllin#False
#TurnConfigIP.Dont3bet#False
#RiverConfigIP.BetSize#50,100
#RiverConfigIP.RaiseSize#3x
#RiverConfigIP.AddAllin#False
#RiverConfigIP.Dont3bet#False
#Rake.Cap#0
#Rake.Fraction#0
#Rake.Enabled#False
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Old 07-08-2020, 10:05 AM   #6433
yomama1
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi, im having trouble nodelocking (setting strategy) in scripts. When i COPY the ranges FROM SCRIPT to PIO GUI nodelock tool, the ranges stay exactly the same and dont change after pressing "go", everything works fine, but in script they dont lock up, when I "load_script".

my script looks something like this:

.
.
.
add_line 54 54 54 54 54 240
build_tree
lock_node r:0
set_strategy r:0 0 0.0 0.0 ...
set_strategy r:0 1 0.0 0.0 ...
set_strategy r:0 2 0.0 0.0 ...
set_strategy r:0 3 0.0 0.0 ...
lock_node r:0:c:b20
set_strategy r:0:c:b20 0 0.0 0.0 ...
set_strategy r:0:c:b20 1 0.0 0.0 ...
set_strategy r:0:c:b20 2 0.0 0.0 ...
set_strategy r:0:c:b20 3 0.0 0.0 ...
set_strategy r:0:c:b20 4 0.0 0.0 ...
set_strategy r:0:c:b20 5 0.0 0.0 ...
is_ready
go 6000 seconds
wait_for_solver
.
.
.

Before nodelocking, the script returned correct results, so Id guess other parts of the script arent causing the issue or am I wrong? Is there a command missing? Thanks in advance <3
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Old 07-08-2020, 03:06 PM   #6434
buffyslayer1
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Originally Posted by yomama1 View Post
Hi, im having trouble nodelocking (setting strategy) in scripts. When i COPY the ranges FROM SCRIPT to PIO GUI nodelock tool, the ranges stay exactly the same and dont change after pressing "go", everything works fine, but in script they dont lock up, when I "load_script".

my script looks something like this:

.
.
.
add_line 54 54 54 54 54 240
build_tree
lock_node r:0
set_strategy r:0 0 0.0 0.0 ...
set_strategy r:0 1 0.0 0.0 ...
set_strategy r:0 2 0.0 0.0 ...
set_strategy r:0 3 0.0 0.0 ...
lock_node r:0:c:b20
set_strategy r:0:c:b20 0 0.0 0.0 ...
set_strategy r:0:c:b20 1 0.0 0.0 ...
set_strategy r:0:c:b20 2 0.0 0.0 ...
set_strategy r:0:c:b20 3 0.0 0.0 ...
set_strategy r:0:c:b20 4 0.0 0.0 ...
set_strategy r:0:c:b20 5 0.0 0.0 ...
is_ready
go 6000 seconds
wait_for_solver
.
.
.

Before nodelocking, the script returned correct results, so Id guess other parts of the script arent causing the issue or am I wrong? Is there a command missing? Thanks in advance <3
You can only node lock from full saves. My guess would be that your scripts are small or micro saves
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Old 07-08-2020, 11:49 PM   #6435
CodythePATRIOT
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Posts: 778
Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Originally Posted by punter11235 View Post
Right now it's not very convenient (basically you would need a separate script for every one of them and then join them). It's one of the things which will be improved on in the next releases.
Do you have an approximate release date on this?
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Old Yesterday, 02:09 AM   #6436
punter11235
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Location: solving poker
Posts: 7,944
Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Hi

I did try all these things already but no joy.
Please add me on Discord (punter11235 at the top of user list in our channel). I will try to understand what's going on there.

Quote:
I run a ton of preflop trees and one thing that's always concerned me is the following:

Do we give up a lot of accuracy in postflop solutions when we use sparse postflop strategy profiles like only one large bet/raise size.

My concerns is especially when you have nodes that enter to the flop with low Stack to Pot Ratios. Like say the flop SPR=1 if we use 50% sizings then a single postflop raise vs a single postflop bet is basically all-in, and we also could not really visit any triple barrel nodes.

Do you think we'd lose significant accuracy in the solution because of that?

Do you think we really gain any significant accuracy by using two bet sizings?

Which postflop actions/nodes have the most impact on the preflop solution?

Is it important to make sure we have lots of river nodes where both players still have enough chips to where they could reasonably get the other player to fold? Or do you think the flops and turns impact the preflop solution more?

Is it good practice to vary the bet/raise size used based on SPR in the flop nodes?
While those questions are hard to answer without running a lot of trees/tests (which I don't anymore) I can offer my intuition on it:

Quote:
Do we give up a lot of accuracy in postflop solutions when we use sparse postflop strategy profiles like only one large bet/raise siz
Probably not a good idea to do that. I tried solving preflop with the assumption action ends on the turn in the past (it's all-in after that) and the solutions were bad.
Quote:

Do you think we really gain any significant accuracy by using two bet sizings?
Imo not much as long as you use one reasonable bet size.

Quote:
Which postflop actions/nodes have the most impact on the preflop solution?
Unfortunately I don't know.

Quote:
I'm a rookie so please bare with me

Is there a way to save bet sizes so I don't have to fill them in each time I start up Pio?
Yes, use "save current parameters" button at the top of the treebuilding and calculation tab, here:

https://gyazo.com/cd421bddeb19a54b35ae96090adbadcb

It's a good idea to watch the quick start video as well

Quote:
Can someone explain to me what the "Add allin" / "Add allin only if less than x % of pot" exactly mean ?

I run the configuration below and got a line : 0 38 550
Init pot = 58
Eff stack = 550

So after IP bets 38 we have : pot = 38 + 58 = 96. 96 x 5 = 480 and since OOP stack is still 550 and 480 < 550, the line above should not exist if I understand what it means correctly.
Raise is a call and a bet. The pot is calculated after the first call. This is a traditional standard way of doing it.
For example when you have a pot of 100$ and a bet is 50$ then pot size raise is a raise to 400$. First call another 50$ and then bet 100% of the pot (which is now 200).

Quote:
Do you have an approximate release date on this?
Sadly not. Hoping for it to be soon.
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Old Yesterday, 02:17 AM   #6437
punter11235
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Location: solving poker
Posts: 7,944
Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Friendly reminder/scam warning:

If you buy Pio licenses from 3rd parties you WILL GET SCAMMED.
There are people offering "sharing licenses" (what they do is they buy one, "share" with 2 others for money, then request a chargeback).

There are people "who no longer need it". Again, chargeback, you are out of money and your license will not work.

There are people "having access to discounts". There is no such thing. We only offer discounts to customer who buy a lot of licenses. We don't do affiliate deals. It is a scam.

There is absolutely nothing you can do if someone you bought a license from fills for a chargeback. It's a headache and additional cost for us. We will not listen to pleading/begging/bargaining if that happens and it does happen on regular basis.

Here is how to not get scammed on the Internet:

1)If the deal involves you sending money to anyone you don't personally know at any point you will get scammed. It doesn't matter if it's before, during or after receiving goods. It's that simple. There is absolutely nothing you can do protect yourself once the money left your account.

2)"But (I am smart) but (I have experience), but (they send first), but (I have this amazing protocol to make it save)" - refer to point 1)

Last edited by punter11235; Yesterday at 02:27 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 06:32 AM   #6438
yomama1
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffyslayer1 View Post
You can only node lock from full saves. My guess would be that your scripts are small or micro saves
Thanks for the reply.
I am not sure I understand what you mean by "scripts are small or micro saves". What is the difference between loading commands from GUI vs from a script. In case of a small tree, GUI works fine (nodelocking very small tree AND saving very small trees), just that doing the same via a script doesnt. I'll try to rephrase the issue and provide some additional information.

Case 1) I load tree into piosolver GUI (yes, very small tree, without turns and rivers), then I proceed to nodelock in pio GUI and save the new solution as very small tree again. Doing that everything works nicely (I dont have a way to assert that results are ok, but locked nodes do stay locked as intended and strategy makes sense). Great

Case 2) I run the script with set_strategy and lock_node commands and dump very small tree (dump_tree "C:\Users\X\Desktop\HU_mr_14_solutions/AsTd3c.cfr" no_turns). In that case, calculated results have these locked strategies "wrong/changed".

edit: in Both cases I "build_tree" before nodelocking, so the calculations start from the scratch. Im not trying to nodelock pre_calculated strategies.

Last edited by yomama1; Yesterday at 06:47 AM.
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Old Today, 03:53 AM   #6439
punter11235
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Location: solving poker
Posts: 7,944
Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
I am not sure I understand what you mean by "scripts are small or micro saves". What is the difference between loading commands from GUI vs from a script. In case of a small tree, GUI works fine (nodelocking very small tree AND saving very small trees), just that doing the same via a script doesnt. I'll try to rephrase the issue and provide some additional information.
I don't think node-locking a small tree works at the moment. Maybe you still have a full tree in memory?

Quote:
edit: in Both cases I "build_tree" before nodelocking, so the calculations start from the scratch. Im not trying to nodelock pre_calculated strategies.
Right. Build_tree command builds a new full tree. This tree is unsolved. You can node-lock on a full unsolved tree but the results are worthless unless you solve it after locking.

The problem with doing it from script is that you also need to set-up the tree configuration. The viewer does that automatically for you (all those "add_line" commands etc.). To do that from script you would need to insert those before building the tree.
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