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Old 04-09-2019, 03:57 AM   #5101
DiamondsOnMyNeck
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

I also have a hardware related question. I understand there may not be a straightforward answer, but what kind of performance improvements could one expect to get by upgrading from a 1950x to a 2990wx? 16cores vs 32cores with same amount of RAM. As I understand it the #cores correlates to the speed at which your build can perform the same sim? Where more RAM would be required to solve more complex/bigger trees, such as preflop, deeper stacks, more betting options, etc?
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Old 04-09-2019, 05:07 AM   #5102
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
. I understand there may not be a straightforward answer, but what kind of performance improvements could one expect to get by upgrading from a 1950x to a 2990wx? 16cores vs 32cores with same amount of RAM.
The speed is just proportional to number of cores multiplied by the freuqency. It scales almost linearly with a very small performance penalty for more cores (should be less than 5%).
Don't upgrade now though, AMD is going to announce next Zen generation soon and not only they could offer faster/better ThreadRipper but it's likely you could get much better deal for 2990wx then if you decide to go that way.

Quote:
Where more RAM would be required to solve more complex/bigger trees, such as preflop, deeper stacks, more betting options, etc?
RAM is needed just to build a tree, it will likely change though in near future and it will be possible to solve faster if you use way more RAM (2x-2.5x).
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Old 04-09-2019, 08:42 AM   #5103
DiamondsOnMyNeck
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Originally Posted by punter11235 View Post
The speed is just proportional to number of cores multiplied by the freuqency. It scales almost linearly with a very small performance penalty for more cores (should be less than 5%).
Don't upgrade now though, AMD is going to announce next Zen generation soon and not only they could offer faster/better ThreadRipper but it's likely you could get much better deal for 2990wx then if you decide to go that way.



RAM is needed just to build a tree, it will likely change though in near future and it will be possible to solve faster if you use way more RAM (2x-2.5x).
Ok, thanks for the heads up on the new AMD processors!

Is there an existing guide for writing Pio scripts? I just want a simple script to run multiple flop sims. Run sim on flop xxx, save to file directory x, start new sim on flop xxx+1, etc?

Also wondering if there's a guide somewhere for utilizing the provided multiple flop subsets?

Thanks again for all the support, love the software.
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:03 AM   #5104
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Is there an existing guide for writing Pio scripts? I just want a simple script to run multiple flop sims. Run sim on flop xxx, save to file directory x, start new sim on flop xxx+1, etc?
Not really but there is script generation tool that does it for you.
You can check Skype Group FAQ for how to combine the scripts:
http://************/PioSkypeGuidelines

There is also documentation of all solver's commands but that's meants for programmers and might be a bit too difficult to read if you just want simple scripts:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/07...68544248083387

(if any links disappear due to 2p2 removing them please pm me).

The best way to start is to generate some scripts with script generation tool and trying to combine them to see if that works. Let me know if you need help with it.
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:08 AM   #5105
Mikko.Poker
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi,

I'm trying to link the scripts together so that the first script starts the second script after finishing. However I'm getting the following error

piosolver ERROR: load script incorrect or missing argument

This is my script in the main window

load_script C:\PioSOLVER\Skriptit\MPvsSB\MP3
load_script C:\PioSOLVER\Skriptit\MPvsBB\MP4
load_script C:\PioSOLVER\Skriptit\COvsBTN\CO1
load_script C:\PioSOLVER\Skriptit\COvsSB\CO2
load_script C:\PioSOLVER\Skriptit\COvsBB\CO3
load_script C:\PioSOLVER\Skriptit\BTNvsSB\BTN1
load_script C:\PioSOLVER\Skriptit\BTNvsBB\BTN2
load_script C:\PioSOLVER\Skriptit\SBvsBB\SB1
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Old 04-10-2019, 11:24 AM   #5106
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
This is my script in the main window

load_script C:\PioSOLVER\Skriptit\MPvsSB\MP3
load_script C:\PioSOLVER\Skriptit\MPvsBB\MP4
load_script C:\PioSOLVER\Skriptit\COvsBTN\CO1
load_script C:\PioSOLVER\Skriptit\COvsSB\CO2
load_script C:\PioSOLVER\Skriptit\COvsBB\CO3
load_script C:\PioSOLVER\Skriptit\BTNvsSB\BTN1
load_script C:\PioSOLVER\Skriptit\BTNvsBB\BTN2
load_script C:\PioSOLVER\Skriptit\SBvsBB\SB1
It looks like file extensions are missing. Full filename should be something like script1.txt

You can turn on showing file extensions in Windows to make sure (it's for some reason off by default for known file types which is source of confusion).
Remember to add "exit" command at the end of all scripts and test it on a simple case first so you don't waste time wasting for the first one to finish just to get an error on 2nd one.
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Old 04-11-2019, 04:31 PM   #5107
sultanchik
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

created the preflop tree, is it normal when it so slowly calculates?it may be more after 8 hours
http://prntscr.com/naqdiq
https://prnt.sc/nap1vh
http://prntscr.com/naqm60
Exploitable sometimes gets worse.
my processor amd 2990WX
Thanks.

Last edited by sultanchik; 04-11-2019 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 04-11-2019, 05:29 PM   #5108
sultanchik
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

http://prntscr.com/nar43l after 3 hours
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Old 04-11-2019, 06:13 PM   #5109
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
created the preflop tree, is it normal when it so slowly calculates?it may be more after 8 hours
http://prntscr.com/naqdiq
https://prnt.sc/nap1vh
http://prntscr.com/naqm60
Exploitable sometimes gets worse.
my processor amd 2990WX
Thanks.
Yes, it's normal that preflop trees take long time to solve. It's less normal that they stop converging though unless it's already <2bb/100 exploitabilty. Can you send us the tree config so I can take a look what's wrong there? Usual reasons for bad convergence:

1)many bet sizes postflop
2)forced 3bet/4bet and small initial ranges
3)very small flop subset
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Old 04-11-2019, 06:57 PM   #5110
grabaka
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

For some reason, when I switch "Show on grid" to "strategy" and then click on the various hand combos (e.g. set, two pair), the grid is no longer just showing just those hands, its showing the entire range? I Didn't change any settings and "update on new node selection" is still checked. If I switch "show on grid" to "EV", then the specific hands will show but this isn't working for strategy. This used to work all the time. Any ideas what happened?
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Old 04-12-2019, 07:43 AM   #5111
Ariandar
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

How do i uninstall pio? I cant find uninstall file, also pio is not displayed in my Control panel/programs and features
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:33 AM   #5112
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
How do i uninstall pio? I cant find uninstall file, also pio is not displayed in my Control panel/programs and features
Pio doesn't install itself. All you need to do if you want to remove from the system:
1)deactivate the license:
-start PioViewer
-ctrl+b to bring arbitrary solver command
-type:
deactivete
[hit enter]

2)[optional] remove all the files by deleting Pio installation folder.
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Old 04-12-2019, 10:04 AM   #5113
Ariandar
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

I assume it's 'deactivate'. anyway i get this message, dont know what to do with it.

https://gyazo.com/85f1b862c115744eef2159fb4831f55b
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Old 04-12-2019, 12:09 PM   #5114
IGotMilkBaby
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hello. My question is how can I open a script with all the boards instead of individual sims/flops? Only the script window pops up when I try to tools->load script.
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Old 04-12-2019, 02:30 PM   #5115
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
I assume it's 'deactivate'. anyway i get this message, dont know what to do with it.

https://gyazo.com/85f1b862c115744eef2159fb4831f55b
I am sorry, it was a typo. The message means the solver is not connected. Maybe it stopped working for w/e reason. Don't worry about it. If you need to install it on another computer just drop us an email including your license key and we will reset it for you so it will work again.
If you would like to see why the solver is not working double click on PioSOLVER-pro.exe (assuming pro version) it will either ask for the key (meaning it doesn't recognize your computer anymore) or display the reason it can't be started.
Again, if you just want to get rid of it on this computer you don't need to do any of this.

Quote:
Hello. My question is how can I open a script with all the boards instead of individual sims/flops? Only the script window pops up when I try to tools->load script.
Just load one of the trees (.cfr files and browse it. If you want to switch to another board you can hit ctrl+shift+O and choose the board you would like to move to.

Quote:
For some reason, when I switch "Show on grid" to "strategy" and then click on the various hand combos (e.g. set, two pair), the grid is no longer just showing just those hands, its showing the entire range? I Didn't change any settings and "update on new node selection" is still checked. If I switch "show on grid" to "EV", then the specific hands will show but this isn't working for strategy. This used to work all the time. Any ideas what happened?
I will check but only on Monday as Kuba (PioViewer dev) is away right now.
Thank you for pointing this out, if it's a bug we will fix it ASAP.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:24 PM   #5116
grabaka
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Originally Posted by punter11235 View Post
I am sorry, it was a typo. The message means the solver is not connected. Maybe it stopped working for w/e reason. Don't worry about it. If you need to install it on another computer just drop us an email including your license key and we will reset it for you so it will work again.
If you would like to see why the solver is not working double click on PioSOLVER-pro.exe (assuming pro version) it will either ask for the key (meaning it doesn't recognize your computer anymore) or display the reason it can't be started.
Again, if you just want to get rid of it on this computer you don't need to do any of this.



Just load one of the trees (.cfr files and browse it. If you want to switch to another board you can hit ctrl+shift+O and choose the board you would like to move to.



I will check but only on Monday as Kuba (PioViewer dev) is away right now.
Thank you for pointing this out, if it's a bug we will fix it ASAP.
thank you! this tool is so useful!
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Old 04-14-2019, 04:52 AM   #5117
JYamada
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hey guys

Just recently upgraded my piosolver from the basic to pro version. The pio guys never gave me instruction on how to upgrade my version. Would really appreciate if someone can guide me through the process or post a link to one of the tutorials for this. Please help.

Thanks
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Old 04-14-2019, 06:34 AM   #5118
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Just recently upgraded my piosolver from the basic to pro version. The pio guys never gave me instruction on how to upgrade my version. Would really appreciate if someone can guide me through the process or post a link to one of the tutorials for this. Please help.
You should have got an email with a new key and a link to the installer.
If that hasn't happened it's possible that the email was caught by your spam filter or you made a typo in the address. Please email support@piosolver.com about it and I will check what happens with the email.
Once you get the installer and a new key just run it, choose pro version, provide the key when asked and run PioViewer from the installation folder.
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Old 04-14-2019, 08:43 PM   #5119
fatjo087
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi guys,

I have been using the preflop solver for 3bet/4bet spots BUvsCO 300 bbs deep. For some reason pio prefers to call 4bets with ATs-AQs and SC 54s-JTs more than pocket pairs TT-QQ. I could maybe get behind the suited connectors but something like ATs being better than QQ seems way off to me. How is this correct? The 4bet range is a narrow ~24 combo range of AA pure, KK ~25%, AKs ~50%, AKo ~20%, and then some bluffs of 54s-87s, A3s-A5s, ATs-AQs, all for ~ 10-30% frequency. What I'm saying is, QQ has much better equity vs this range than AJs, ATs, SCs, etc., doesn't have problems realizing equity, and is going to flop the nuts ~12% of the time. Yet pio says to fold QQ 56% of the time, and to fold JJ and TT about 65% of the time. SCs and ATs+ are near pure continues. It also says ATs+ have way higher EV than QQ. I get that we block AA/AK when we hold ATs+, but it still seems ridiculous to me. 4bet is to 4x the 3bet and SPR is still nearly 4 if BU elects to call.
Am I missing something here? Why is this the case? Is pio not accurate in some situations like this? I have solved to exploitability of 2.84 bb/100.
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Old 04-15-2019, 06:22 AM   #5120
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
I have been using the preflop solver for 3bet/4bet spots BUvsCO 300 bbs deep. For some reason pio prefers to call 4bets with ATs-AQs and SC 54s-JTs more than pocket pairs TT-QQ. I could maybe get behind the suited connectors but something like ATs being better than QQ seems way off to me. How is this correct? The 4bet range is a narrow ~24 combo range of AA pure, KK ~25%, AKs ~50%, AKo ~20%, and then some bluffs of 54s-87s, A3s-A5s, ATs-AQs, all for ~ 10-30% frequency. What I'm saying is, QQ has much better equity vs this range than AJs, ATs, SCs, etc., doesn't have problems realizing equity, and is going to flop the nuts ~12% of the time. Yet pio says to fold QQ 56% of the time, and to fold JJ and TT about 65% of the time. SCs and ATs+ are near pure continues. It also says ATs+ have way higher EV than QQ. I get that we block AA/AK when we hold ATs+, but it still seems ridiculous to me. 4bet is to 4x the 3bet and SPR is still nearly 4 if BU elects to call.
It's very hard to comment on a solution without seeing the exact tree config so we can re-run it locally and take a look.
You can get the tree config by clicking "to clipboard" button in the preflop treebuilding tab and then pasting it to pastebin and linking here (or pasting here directly in [ code ] [ /code ] tags (without spaces inside))
2.84bb/100 is usually pretty good (although the solver will get lower if on most trees if you let it run). The problem might be a small preflop subset but again, commenting on it is not possible until we see the full config and get a chance to re-run it locally.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:59 PM   #5121
dipandglide
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

What is "ICM Utility"? I searched the thread and didn't come across any replies to this.
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Old 04-16-2019, 02:48 AM   #5122
dipandglide
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

What is the minimum flop subset you can run when building preflop sims? Are results going to be drastically different if you run 12 flops compared to 94 flops?
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Old 04-16-2019, 02:56 AM   #5123
IGotMilkBaby
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Thank you for the previous answer! Another question I have is how do I know when I'm running too many sims and how bad it is to my computer? For example, while running multiple sims with wide ranges my computer really slows down but I'm not sure if that's a problem if I leave it running over night.
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Old 04-17-2019, 03:44 AM   #5124
martoncz
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi! How can I run a "runouts aggregated frequencies over multiple files" analysis with nodes other than root? Eg. when analysing IP cbets, I would like to see "Root, Check".
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Old 04-17-2019, 03:59 AM   #5125
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
What is "ICM Utility"? I searched the thread and didn't come across any replies to this.
"Utility" is a function that converts money to value in general and chips to expected $ in tournament prices in poker case. ICM is a function that tells you how much "utility" you get out of your stack or how much money you expect to win in the tournament (according to ICM model)

Quote:
What is the minimum flop subset you can run when building preflop sims? Are results going to be drastically different if you run 12 flops compared to 94 flops?
It's a judgement call. From my experience the results start to be quite decent around 40 flops and there is not much to gain above maybe 97-120 range.

Quote:
I have is how do I know when I'm running too many sims and how bad it is to my computer?
For a computer with functioning cooling it doesn't matter. CPU can run 24h/day for years and nothing is going to happen to it.
The problems arise if you have not so well functioning cooling/dirt/other problems. You can monitor the temperature of the computer, one good program for that is HWMonitor (please google, I will not link as 2p2 will remove it anyway).

Quote:
while running multiple sims with wide ranges my computer really slows down but I'm not sure if that's a problem if I leave it running over night.
It would be really bad setup for you to damage the computer by running sims overnight. CPU has a mechanism to slow things down if temperatures are too high. Still, it's a good idea to monitor it for a while and see how it does after say 20-30 minutes of solving.
If you need resources for other things at the same time the solver is working you can reduce the number of threads it's allowed to use by going to Tools->Configuration->Behavior and changing the appropriate field.

Quote:
Hi! How can I run a "runouts aggregated frequencies over multiple files" analysis with nodes other than root? Eg. when analysing IP cbets, I would like to see "Root, Check".
1)Open one of the trees
2)Navigate to the decision node you would like to get report in
3)Run the report
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