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PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

09-16-2015 , 09:26 PM
thanks for the quick and detailed reply!

you've made a customer out of me. #customer support

is there a thread/forum where people post there tress/findings? would be nice to be able to share and learn from others data.
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-16-2015 , 09:58 PM
Quote:
is there a thread/forum where people post there tress/findings? would be nice to be able to share and learn from others data.
We have quite a busy Skype group which you are invited to join.
As to the forums I am still on the fence what to do about it. We don't have enough resources to run it ourselves, on the other hand it seems people are not crazy about the idea of us supporting a forum on a platform associated with someone else.

Any suggestions/initiative is welcome here.
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-17-2015 , 01:20 AM
When locking strategy in a node, it would be nice the option to select top pair, flush draw, OESD, ... Or there is a way to do it now?
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-17-2015 , 04:26 AM
Quote:
When locking strategy in a node, it would be nice the option to select top pair, flush draw, OESD, ... Or there is a way to do it now?
For now you would need to use a workaround like this:
1)open Range Explorer (in current spot)
2)use the checkboxes there and (optionally) edit the range clicking "selection" box
3)copy paste from there to node locking

This is unfortunately not very covenient.
We have plans for improving node locking interface but unfortunately it's unlikely to make it to the next release so it needs to wait a while.
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-17-2015 , 08:03 AM
Hi, Could you please make more PIO videos? For example about; scripting, the gui options, locking.
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-17-2015 , 05:23 PM
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Hi, Could you please make more PIO videos? For example about; scripting, the gui options, locking.
Unfortunately it isn't that simple for me as I am not a native speaker and I am also not very good at talking to myself for extended period. I made several efforts at making an additional video but for now no success.
We are not focusing on the next release which will introduce significant changes in scripting so that one topic is out until the release is done.
Same goes for GUI options as some things are going to change/get fixed there.

We will see how it goes. I remember that people want videos but it's just not very easy to get around doing them and tbh my time is very limited right now as we still don't have anyone to help with support/website/business side and then of course the programming itself. All I can say that they will appear when the time is right (that is I won't have to re-do them in 2-3 weeks after making them).
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-18-2015 , 03:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by punter11235
I remember that people want videos but it's just not very easy to get around doing them and tbh my time is very limited right now as we still don't have anyone to help with support/website/business side and then of course the programming itself.
Yes, imho, if in doubt, definitely stick to programming.
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-18-2015 , 07:12 AM
So I've made a short video about node locking. I go through simple hand and show some ways to make use of that functionality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_Oh...ature=youtu.be

Other often requested topics (tree building, scripting) have to wait for the next release as some important things are going to change there.

Have fun!
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-18-2015 , 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by +VLFBERH+T
Yes, imho, if in doubt, definitely stick to programming.
This please.
GUI is so intuitional that actually anybody who really wants to use PIO seriously should understand it.
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-18-2015 , 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by punter11235
So I've made a short video about node locking. I go through simple hand and show some ways to make use of that functionality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_Oh...ature=youtu.be

Other often requested topics (tree building, scripting) have to wait for the next release as some important things are going to change there.

Have fun!
This is an excellent explanatory video. English may not be your native language but you explain things very well. I have no problems understanding your accent either. And a vid was needed on node-locking.

At the same time, I agree focus on programming as the best use of your time.
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-19-2015 , 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTamBiscuit
This is an excellent explanatory video. English may not be your native language but you explain things very well. I have no problems understanding your accent either. And a vid was needed on node-locking.

At the same time, I agree focus on programming as the best use of your time.
+1, you speak english very well and the explanation is very good.
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-22-2015 , 02:31 AM
Ye it's def fine, make more vids
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-22-2015 , 12:25 PM
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This is an excellent explanatory video.
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1, you speak english very well and the explanation is very good.
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Ye it's def fine, make more vids
Thanks guys, that's nice to hear.
More videos (by me and probably one other person) will appear once 1.6 is released.

Meanwhile Mr Tyler Forrester published several videos on Rut It Once recently where he makes extensive use of PioSOLVER so I recommend checking them out as well
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-22-2015 , 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by punter11235
Meanwhile Mr Tyler Forrester published several videos on Rut It Once recently where he makes extensive use of PioSOLVER so I recommend checking them out as well
There's one by Steve Paul, too (also at RIO).
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-23-2015 , 02:42 PM
Overall I really like and am happy with the program.

One suggestion is that for turns and rivers would be to add in how many combos we reach the turn with. At the moment it is quite labour intensive

For example basic spot TT3r flop, turn is a 6.
Pio solver will show how often we bet the turn with each hand in our range. Some nominal % for example. However, you have to go back and check that ok we get to turn with 25% of x hand and now we bet it say 60%.
It would be a lot more intuitive if there was a line showing total combos left over from the flop into our turn range.

Then you will need to do this for nearly all hands in the range to get a real feel for the turn range for example.

Maybe even a feature where u could also hide hands in a betting range or something where the range gotten to that street is really miniscule. As for a human to build ranges for such a spot in practice we can often ignore that we need to bet the turn less than 0.1% of the time (which is often the case)
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-23-2015 , 06:04 PM
Quote:
One suggestion is that for turns and rivers would be to add in how many combos we reach the turn with. At the moment it is quite labour intensive
You mean like this:
http://imgur.com/LbNZqPb ?

Quote:
Pio solver will show how often we bet the turn with each hand in our range. Some nominal % for example. However, you have to go back and check that ok we get to turn with 25% of x hand and now we bet it say 60%.
It would be a lot more intuitive if there was a line showing total combos left over from the flop into our turn range.
It does show it when you click "OOP Range" or "IP Range" buttons. You can also change the way it displays weights from probabilities to combos, like this:
http://imgur.com/DFPFWQT

Quote:
Maybe even a feature where u could also hide hands in a betting range or something where the range gotten to that street is really miniscule. As for a human to build ranges for such a spot in practice we can often ignore that we need to bet the turn less than 0.1% of the time (which is often the case)
I think "square size proportional to weight" checkbox does what you want:
http://i.imgur.com/r0YPlWS.gifv

To get better feel for the range you can open Range Explorer as well, like this:

Tools->Range Explorer->open in current spot

Then you can analyze the composition of the range (how many top pairs, sets, draws etc.).
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-25-2015 , 02:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by punter11235
You can achieve it now by calculating all the trees (1755), then making multi-flop aggregation report then weighting them manually (rainbow unpaired flop by 24, suited/paired by 12 and same rank/suit by 4). It is a lot of work though so it's the best to wait till next release where an option to insert weighted flops to our automatic script generation form will be added. List of all the flops with a corresponding weight is here:

http://pastebin.com/YwUWkD72

(notice that this list has one representative from every group of strategically different flops)
For task like this I would recommend very short solving times as the EVs should be more or less correct even at 2%-3% accuracy. It's also good to avoid huge trees as adding bet sizing options rarely makes big difference in EV but makes solving time longer.



I am not sure I am following you here so maybe elaborate a bit if I am not answering your question. You can see preflop equity in PioViewer by going to Tools->RangeExplorer->open (not in current spot) then inserting ranges and removing the board (preflop equityu works in range explorer in the newest version).



Next release will have simple pure preflop games added. We will see how it goes from there
I've also been trying to do this recently. I'm wondering how the multi flop aggregation report would help, since it only shows EVs for the whole strategy and not for each individual hand on each board? Is there something I am missing? I actually wrote a script to dump all the evs to a txt file and add up the weighted evs. However I'm getting some weird results so I'm not sure if I did something wrong. I didn't account for card removal on boards and remove the corresponding weights which I think might be causing the issue. The results seem ok but I ran will tiptons 20bb min-raise ranges and found alot of the hands the BB is flatting with to be -ev so that is why I think I did something incorrectly.
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-25-2015 , 05:48 AM
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I'm wondering how the multi flop aggregation report would help, since it only shows EVs for the whole strategy and not for each individual hand on each board? Is there something I am missing?
Yeah, they wouldn't help right now. In the next release multi-flop reports will have evs for every hand as well as preflop orders automatically generated from them.

Quote:
I actually wrote a script to dump all the evs to a txt file and add up the weighted evs.
Make sure that you are interpreting the results correctly. The format for say calc_ev is now: 1326 evs then 1326 matchups (probabilities). It was different in the first version of the solver and changed I think around 1.2 or 1.3 version (current format is better because it allows for EVs for hands which are no longer in range).
Also make sure you are parsing floats in scientific notation correctly, they may appear in the output.

Quote:
I didn't account for card removal on boards and remove the corresponding weights which I think might be causing the issue.
You shouldn't need to do that as you will get nan/0 (or inf/0) for hands which are dead.

Anyway, we already have this kind of aggregation working in dev and it will be available in 1.6 version.
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-25-2015 , 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by punter11235
In the next release multi-flop reports will have evs for every hand as well as preflop orders automatically generated from them.
Awesome!
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-29-2015 , 06:10 PM
maybe this isn´t the right thread to be asking about specific hands but I feel I have to cause its anooying me
I just ran a a river scenario with button vs blind 3b ranges. and on the river the board is
Qs10h7h6c6d

pio say´s that good bluffing hands for oop are k9s and j9s. j9s it only uses the heart combo and for k9s it mostly uses the heart combo. Why do pio use the hands that blocks IP missed draws?
I´m just getting started with this and want to understand
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-29-2015 , 06:34 PM
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maybe this isn´t the right thread to be asking about specific hands but I feel I have to cause its anooying me
It's ok to post specific hands here.
However if you would like me to take a look make sure to copy-paste the whole config.
There is a "copy to clipboard" button in the tree building tab. You can copy it here (preferably wrapping in a [code] tags). Those configs can be copy-pasted back to solver (using Tools->paste tree config) so I can re-run exactly the one you have.

Quote:
Why do pio use the hands that blocks IP missed draws?
Bluffing is mainly about blocking calling combos. Calling is about blocking value combos or not blocking bluffing combos.
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
09-30-2015 , 06:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by punter11235
You mean like this:
http://imgur.com/LbNZqPb ?



It does show it when you click "OOP Range" or "IP Range" buttons. You can also change the way it displays weights from probabilities to combos, like this:
http://imgur.com/DFPFWQT



I think "square size proportional to weight" checkbox does what you want:
http://i.imgur.com/r0YPlWS.gifv

To get better feel for the range you can open Range Explorer as well, like this:

Tools->Range Explorer->open in current spot

Then you can analyze the composition of the range (how many top pairs, sets, draws etc.).
thanks for this very helpful
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
10-02-2015 , 03:19 PM
Small announcement:

Our Skype groups is temporarily closed for new users due to reaching a limit for number of participants.
I am going to look for another medium as soon as possible.
Meanwhile any questions/suggestions and comments are more than welcome here
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
10-02-2015 , 05:58 PM
IRC channel maybe?
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
10-05-2015 , 03:14 PM
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IRC channel maybe?
I kinda like it even though IRC isn't the most popular platform nowadays (one advantage of Skype is that almost everyone already has it). I am a bit reluctant about forum idea (it seems a bit slow and not as fun to me) but we will see.
Meanwhile we "refreshed" a Skype group so if you are an active user please move to the new one (link at the end of the discussion of the old one). It seems the new one is filling fast as well though so the problem won't just go away
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