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Old 11-08-2018, 11:15 PM   #4601
MU MUF MUFC OK
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Is there a way to turn a small save into a complete tree, for node locking, or do i have to compute the whole tree again?
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Old 11-09-2018, 04:11 AM   #4602
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Skype group isn’t active anymore. You can join Discord here: https://www.piosolver.com/blogs/news...ersion-1-10-18
Yes, we invite you to the Discord. While it's not that active yet as it's less familiar than Skype we think it's much better for many reasons. We also have almost 1500 members in our channel now although most are too shy to post

Quote:
Is there a way to turn a small save into a complete tree, for node locking, or do i have to compute the whole tree again?
Short answer:
There isn't but building a new tree from scratch, locking and solving from there is better

Longer answer:
There theoretically is but you probably don't want it. You can call "rebuild_forgotten_streets" command from solver console (ctrl+b to bring it up). It will take a while but it will rebuild the tree (with unsolved rivers of course), you can node-lock now and solve. It will likely not be faster than solving from scratch though.
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Old 11-09-2018, 05:27 AM   #4603
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hey, I started getting this error message:

"Setting and locking strategy doesn't make sense on incomplete tree. Do you want run plugin anyway?"

and

Pugin Tree: Round strategies failed
ERROR: round_up_to can't do that on incomplete tree

Why didn't I get these error messages before? Weird. Anyway, I can't make my tree complete, because I have BTN always raising certain range, so he can't fold those hands. How the hell can I node lock now and round strategies?

BTW, after rounding, should I still run the PIO again?
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Old 11-09-2018, 10:51 AM   #4604
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Originally Posted by punter11235 View Post
We use "round to even" rule which is standard for floating point numbers.
See here for some rationale:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundi...d_half_to_even

If bet size rounding influences your tree it's the best to just multiply everything (pot and stacks) by 10 or 100. For example instead of 1/2 game you can solve for 10/20 or 100/200.
I still do not understand some things. I will put it with an example:
- Starting pot 75
- Bet 25%
- Raise 50%

Bet = 75 * 0.25 = 18.75 rounded 19
Raise = (75 +19 +19) * 0.5 +19 = 75.5 rounded 76 (if I understood the banking rounding well), but PioSolver shows 75
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Old 11-09-2018, 04:07 PM   #4605
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Bet = 75 * 0.25 = 18.75 rounded 19
Raise = (75 +19 +19) * 0.5 +19 = 75.5 rounded 76 (if I understood the banking rounding well), but PioSolver shows 75
Yeah, apparently it's rounded before addition for some reason. I will investigate why it's happening.
Again, if rounding in bet sizes matters to you when creating a tree you are likely using too small initial pot/stack sizes.
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Old 11-12-2018, 05:01 AM   #4606
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi,

What are the differences between the flop subset that you recommend on your website (2015) and those downloaded with the solver (flop subset 2016)
For example : the 184 flops subset are not the same. Is the more recent one more precise ?

Thanks
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Old 11-12-2018, 09:15 AM   #4607
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

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What are the differences between the flop subset that you recommend on your website (2015) and those downloaded with the solver (flop subset 2016)
For example : the 184 flops subset are not the same. Is the more recent one more precise ?
The ones we ship now are newer and better. They were recalculated I think in 2017. 2016 in the name doesn't mean anything
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Old 11-14-2018, 09:14 AM   #4608
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi,

I'm looking to simplify a complete tree in order to keep only 2 sizings on turns. The idea would be to force the solver to use sizing A on some turns, sizing B on others. Basically it is like adding/removing lines but with the possibility of specifying turns. Is it doable ?
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Old 11-14-2018, 06:00 PM   #4609
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
I'm looking to simplify a complete tree in order to keep only 2 sizings on turns. The idea would be to force the solver to use sizing A on some turns, sizing B on others. Basically it is like adding/removing lines but with the possibility of specifying turns. Is it doable ?
This is right now not doable. Making the betting structure the same on all the cards allow many optimizations so that was the design choice. It's possible in the future we make it possible although it will make things slower.
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Old 11-15-2018, 08:19 AM   #4610
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi,

I have two questions for you guys,

1) I notice that the solver likes to bet quite rarely and prefers a small sizing @ monotone flops. Do you know why ?

2) In a SRP situation, with a starting pot of 55 and an effective stack of 975, I propose to the solver two differents simulations OTF :

- bet 33% pot OR check

- force to bet 33% with full range

I made an agg. report with the results below


I was asking myself from how many EV loosing we should consider give up the simplified strategy (force bet 33% full range) ?

For example :

a) 776s simulation 1 => IP EV = 32.53
776s simulation 2 => IP EV = 31.79

That's a 0.74 chips difference, with a starting stack of 1000 chips that means 0.07 bb right ?

Is it really that relevant or not ?

b) A32m => IP EV = 31.40
A32m => IP EV = 30.01

That's a 1.39 chips difference, with a starting stack of 1000 chips that means 0.14 bb right ?

Is this amount more relevant or is it still negligible ?

Last edited by ethanol94; 11-15-2018 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 11-15-2018, 08:57 AM   #4611
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
1) I notice that the solver likes to bet quite rarely and prefers a small sizing @ monotone flops. Do you know why ?
We can bet more frequently if we employ a small bet size and it looks like it's more profitable to force junk to fold every time than to get value vs middle of the range on flops where not much is happening. Why is that though I do not know. It just turns out to be more profitable strategy.

Quote:
I was asking myself from how many EV loosing we should consider give up the simplified strategy (force bet 33% full range) ?
When having strategies which are close in value it's worthwhile to think which one is more likely to induce mistakes. It seems small bet strategy is successful because people do a lot of mistakes vs that like folding too much and raising too much. You can often simplify without losing much EV but it only makes sense if your opponent is likely to make mistakes against your simplified strategy. Simplifying for the sake of simplifying just makes your opponents' life easier.

Quote:
That's a 0.74 chips difference, with a starting stack of 1000 chips that means 0.07 bb right ?
it's 0.074bb/hand or 7.4bb/100 hands. Average rake in postflop spot in 5/10 games is 15bb/100 so I would say 7.4bb/100 is not nothing.

Quote:
That's a 1.39 chips difference, with a starting stack of 1000 chips that means 0.14 bb right ?
That sounds like a lot but again, it's a judgement call. I don't think EV differences are the most important factor when deciding if it's worthwhile to simplify the strategy. See the previous paragraph.
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Old 11-15-2018, 04:39 PM   #4612
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

When I run agg reports for the turn and river the fold EV is in reference yo the flop. It is kinda weird looking at -EV calls, and -EV folds. Is there any way to have turn reports reference fold to 0 and river have fold EV 0. Like it is in the GUI? Is this how it is supposed to be or did I mess something up? Thanks.
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Old 11-15-2018, 06:15 PM   #4613
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
When I run agg reports for the turn and river the fold EV is in reference yo the flop. It is kinda weird looking at -EV calls, and -EV folds. Is there any way to have turn reports reference fold to 0 and river have fold EV 0. Like it is in the GUI? Is this how it is supposed to be or did I mess something up? Thanks.
Yeah, that's the way solver reports it. It's always EV of the whole line. The GUI changes it to the usual convention using the formula in Tools->Configuration->data presentation

I think it's not possible to apply those to aggregation reports right now but I will talk to Kuba (PioViewer developer) to see if we can add it.
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Old 11-15-2018, 06:22 PM   #4614
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Originally Posted by punter11235 View Post
Yeah, that's the way solver reports it. It's always EV of the whole line. The GUI changes it to the usual convention using the formula in Tools->Configuration->data presentation

I think it's not possible to apply those to aggregation reports right now but I will talk to Kuba (PioViewer developer) to see if we can add it.
Thanks. It is not such a big deal. I more or less only use the turn and river reports for the bet/check/fold frequencies. I just thought I might have accidentally messed up a setting. Thanks.
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Old Yesterday, 09:57 AM   #4615
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Got 2950x ryzen, and getting 3.8sec bench, I gotta do something incorrect here.. also tried OCd to 4.2GHz but no difference, anyone has 2950x and having similar spots?
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Old Yesterday, 12:30 PM   #4616
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Is there is any hardware I can add to my computer so that piosolver will be able to do more complex trees and run faster? I have an intel computer, 4 core processor 16 gb RAM. Thanks for any help.
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Old Yesterday, 05:41 PM   #4617
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Got 2950x ryzen, and getting 3.8sec bench, I gotta do something incorrect here.. also tried OCd to 4.2GHz but no difference, anyone has 2950x and having similar spots?
1)which version of Pio?
2)energy saving settings off? (full performance)
3)how many cores are working when you look at it in task manager?

Quote:
Is there is any hardware I can add to my computer so that piosolver will be able to do more complex trees and run faster? I have an intel computer, 4 core processor 16 gb RAM. Thanks for any help.
You need more RAM for bigger trees and faster CPU to solve them faster. There are CPUs 2 or 3x faster than your on the market (depending on the exact model) but they are pretty pricy and will likely require upgrading other components as well.
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Old Today, 05:02 AM   #4618
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Fixed, it was about RAM since the Ryzen 2950x is quad core if should have atleast 4 ram sticks if not all, I used 2 sticks only before.

Without overclocking bench 2.02, and a little overclock to 4.2GHz I got 1.95 which is sick!

Advice for future buyers, definitely can recommend 2950x
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