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PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

05-19-2018 , 04:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by punter11235
"Playability profile" idea is a crude approximation. It isn't correct mathematically and will backfire if you try to "solve" spots using it. In general it's based on circular reasoning: we first estimate EVs to get equity realizaiton "profile" and then we use that to estimate EVs to solve preflop. If only things were that simple...
That being said you can still get something interesting but it's in no way guaranteed to be close to real solution.
"Playability profile"... coming from the same guy who talks about "Minimum defence frequency" LOL
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05-19-2018 , 01:20 PM
When I tried to make report for a boards that I solved with script, I get message: "The weight for a flop As2s2d is missing from a script", generating report stops and .csv file is not made.. Why is weight important if that board can normally be seen in brower and betting frequencies.
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05-19-2018 , 05:12 PM
Just curious but when did a program like this come out?
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
05-20-2018 , 06:45 AM
Quote:
When I tried to make report for a boards that I solved with script, I get message: "The weight for a flop As2s2d is missing from a script", generating report stops and .csv file is not made.. Why is weight important if that board can normally be seen in brower and betting frequencies.
The weight is important for reports because flop subsets are constructed in such a way that some are taken with higher weights than others to make the best possible EV approximation. If you run the newest version (1.10.18) you will be able to make reports without weights although please be aware that overall EV (across all boards) might not be a good approximation of real EV if weights are not used.

Quote:
Just curious but when did a program like this come out?
Our first release was in March 2015 so 3 years and 2 months ago.
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05-20-2018 , 09:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by punter11235
The weight is important for reports because flop subsets are constructed in such a way that some are taken with higher weights than others to make the best possible EV approximation. If you run the newest version (1.10.18) you will be able to make reports without weights although please be aware that overall EV (across all boards) might not be a good approximation of real EV if weights are not used.
I am using newest version when I get this error message when trying to make report.

Since weight is not used when running 1 tree/spot (without script), does it mean that it's not best EV approximaton?
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05-21-2018 , 12:47 AM
Quote:
I am using newest version when I get this error message when trying to make report.

Since weight is not used when running 1 tree/spot (without script), does it mean that it's not best EV approximaton?
It's a warning not an error which means the reports are still created.
It means that overall you won't get good EV approximation unless you really run a lot of boards. To beat our subset of say 50 boards with weights you will likely need like 500-600 random boards (rough guess but our subset of I think 30 boards is better at approximating EV than pre-prepared subsets of previously published 180 boards using different method and it will be way worse with random boards).
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05-21-2018 , 01:53 AM
Is there some way to set minimum ev when solving so only hands above that ev will be used when taking that action?
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05-21-2018 , 01:46 PM
Quote:
I have a 6 year old desktop computer with 8 RAM, 2 cores and 4 logical processors (64 bits) that takes 20-25 minutes to solve a single raised pot. With that in mind if I were to upgrade to PIO Pro how long would it take instead? Could my computer even handle scripts or does it just suck too much for that?
Hello, I asked that question a while ago and you told me you needed the exact CPU name to answer it, is what you were asking for?

AMD A8-5500 APU with radeon(tm) HD Graphics 3.20 GHz
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
05-21-2018 , 05:02 PM
Quote:
Is there some way to set minimum ev when solving so only hands above that ev will be used when taking that action?
There isn't. I haven't tried this particular feature but from experience with similar once it sounds like it wouldn't be stable when solving (it would fluctuate a lot and possibly not converge). You can node-lock specific combos before solving but that's likely not good enough for your usecase.

Quote:
AMD A8-5500 APU with radeon(tm) HD Graphics 3.20 GHz
To be honest I have no experience with this particular CPU. Every AMD CPU I've seen benchmarks for was very very slow for Pio until Ryzen generation came out (those are fantastic). Pro version wouldn't provide any benefits (other than sripts).

You can run a benchmark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ozjfnatwms (question number 2) and see what kind of results you're getting. On a modern quad core desktop CPU you would get around 9-10 seconds.
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05-21-2018 , 05:05 PM
Hi,
My PioSolver worked just fine for a couple of days ago but suddenly it has started to require my activation code and it says that my activation code is wrong. Anyone who recognizes this problem?

Thanks,
Poperick
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05-21-2018 , 06:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by punter11235
To be honest I have no experience with this particular CPU. Every AMD CPU I've seen benchmarks for was very very slow for Pio until Ryzen generation came out (those are fantastic). Pro version wouldn't provide any benefits (other than sripts).

You can run a benchmark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ozjfnatwms (question number 2) and see what kind of results you're getting. On a modern quad core desktop CPU you would get around 9-10 seconds.
Thank you for the answer, I'm getting 30 seconds, do you know what that says about scripting? (in particular could my computer handle like 10 flops at once without crashing/freezing/taking forever)
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05-22-2018 , 03:14 AM
Quote:
My PioSolver worked just fine for a couple of days ago but suddenly it has started to require my activation code and it says that my activation code is wrong. Anyone who recognizes this problem?
Hi, are you the person who I exchanged emails about it already or is it a new case?
This problem happened I think 3 times so far so it would be very useful if you got in contact with us via email. We need more informatoin to solve it with licensing people.

Quote:
Thank you for the answer, I'm getting 30 seconds, do you know what that says about scripting? (in particular could my computer handle like 10 flops at once without crashing/freezing/taking forever)
It will handle it, it will just be slow. They are not solved "at once", they solved in succession so that's not a problem.
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
05-22-2018 , 05:17 AM
@Mod

In the flop subset text files, what does the number to right of the flop mean?

ie.

2sTdQc:6.29
3s6dKc:2.44
3s7dQc:4.39
3s7dAc:0.43
3sTdAc:0.98


Thanks
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
05-22-2018 , 05:44 AM
Quote:
In the flop subset text files, what does the number to right of the flop mean?

ie.

2sTdQc:6.29
3s6dKc:2.44
3s7dQc:4.39
3s7dAc:0.43
3sTdAc:0.98
Those are weights. Weights are the same as (relative) probabilities. If you divide every weight by sum of all weights you will get normal probabilities.

Those are used for calculation of aggregation EVs/frequencies etc. They mean that some flops are taken with higher weight than others. This is done to approximate EV in the whole game in the best way.
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
05-23-2018 , 12:40 PM
Does Pio ever plan to integrate something like what Simple GTO Trainer does into its own software? Do you have a personal opinion on these products and if they would be worth the money for you?
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
05-23-2018 , 06:01 PM
Quote:
Does Pio ever plan to integrate something like what Simple GTO Trainer does into its own software? Do you have a personal opinion on these products and if they would be worth the money for you?
We have this in plans. We in fact had this feature in our old decision tree software circa 2009. The problem is that it's not that easy to make it useful as many strategies are mixed and you have to invent some way to test for ranges/mixed strategies which is correct.
I don't use GTO trainer myself so I am not sure how they solved this problem. I've heard some opinions of our users but I can't really comment on it without checking the implementation details myself.
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05-24-2018 , 12:24 AM
I have some problem with script.. although I put that solution stops at 0.5% accuracy, it just randomly stops at 4.XX, 1.XX etc.. timeout is set at 9999
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05-24-2018 , 03:46 AM
Quote:
I have some problem with script.. although I put that solution stops at 0.5% accuracy, it just randomly stops at 4.XX, 1.XX etc.. timeout is set at 9999
The most common reason for this is confusion. Please remember that the output of the solver is in chips so for example if the pot is 300 and the required accuracy is 0.5% the solver will stop at "Exploitable for 1.5" or less. If that's not the problem please email support@piosolver.com with both the script and the screenshot of it stopping prematurely.
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
05-24-2018 , 08:27 PM
Is the piosolver cost an annual payment or a 1 time cost to use the software indefinitely?

Can you order the piosolver basic and then just pay the difference for pro or edge later if you want to upgrade?

Can the scripting feature in piosolver be used to give a solution for every turn and river card if you just let it run several hours or overnight?

Is the scripting feature very user friendly? Can it usually be figured out by someone with only very limited programming experience?

Can the preflop solver be used for certain full ring situations that become heads up? For example,

1. Under the gun raises first in, and action folds to the Big Blind. Can the preflop solver give a solution for the big blind if you input a raise first in range for under the gun?

2. Under the gun raises first in, under the gun + 1 3 bets, and action folds back to under the gun. Can the preflop solver give a solution for under the gun if you input the raise first in range and 3 bet range?

3. Under the gun raises first in, under the gun + 1 calls, Big Blind 3 bet squeezes, and under the gun folds. Can the preflop solver give a solution for under the gun + 1 if you input the cold call range and 3 bet squeeze range?
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05-24-2018 , 09:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by punter11235
The most common reason for this is confusion. Please remember that the output of the solver is in chips so for example if the pot is 300 and the required accuracy is 0.5% the solver will stop at "Exploitable for 1.5" or less. If that's not the problem please email support@piosolver.com with both the script and the screenshot of it stopping prematurely.
Well in normal sim (no script), no matter how big the pot is, final result is exploitable for 0.4XX (I put 0.5%) so not sure why in script it should be different.
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05-25-2018 , 03:49 AM
Quote:
Is the piosolver cost an annual payment or a 1 time cost to use the software indefinitely?
It's a one time cost. You can use the software indefinitely. It's likely that there will be a paid upgrade at some point. Selling lifetime upgrades doesn't make any sense business wise as there would be no incentive to work on anything new once initial sales wave dries up.

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Can you order the piosolver basic and then just pay the difference for pro or edge later if you want to upgrade?
The upgrades are the difference in prices during the first month and then the difference +25$.

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Can the scripting feature in piosolver be used to give a solution for every turn and river card if you just let it run several hours or overnight?
Pio always solves the whole tree so if you solve a tree you have a solution for every turn and river card already done. It only takes several hours on preflop trees or really huge postflop trees (you can always build a bigger one by adding more bet sizes/raise sizes).

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Is the scripting feature very user friendly? Can it usually be figured out by someone with only very limited programming experience?
We have script generation form which is easy to use. If you want to chain scripts together (solve one script, then another, then another for different betting structure) then it requires using notepad and creating a .bat file calling script one after another, I would say it's easy to figure out but may require some testing).

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Can the preflop solver be used for certain full ring situations that become heads up? For example,
Yes to all your examples.

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Well in normal sim (no script), no matter how big the pot is, final result is exploitable for 0.4XX (I put 0.5%) so not sure why in script it should be different.
It's always the same. If you look at the output from the solver on the right which looks like this:

Quote:
EV OOP: 46.839
EV IP: 53.161
OOP's MES: 47.149
IP's MES: 53.410
Exploitable for: 0.280
We translate the last value to % of the pot and display it at the bottom as "exploitable for x% of the pot".
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05-25-2018 , 05:02 PM
Thank you punter for your detailed answers. Could you also tell me about the activation restrictions?

If I were to restore my computer to factory default settings and everything got deleted, would I still be able to use my same activation after restoring my computer?

If I got a new computer, would I be able to transfer the activation from the old computer to the new one?
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05-26-2018 , 04:41 AM
Quote:
If I were to restore my computer to factory default settings and everything got deleted, would I still be able to use my same activation after restoring my computer?
It will probably not work. This is not a problem though as you can always email us (attaching your key) to ask for a reset or you can deactivate it yourself before major hardware changes take place. It's always possible to get the license back one way or the other. It is never stuck forever.

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If I got a new computer, would I be able to transfer the activation from the old computer to the new one?
Yes. In case of basic/pro licenses you can move it from computer to computer within reasonable limits for purposes like new computers, long travelling and some experimentation. In case of the edge license you can move it from computer to computer without any limits (even multiple times a day).
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05-28-2018 , 05:10 AM
Running a script to be used for multiflop aggregation report. I've seen it stop for hours and resume and I'm wondering if this is just something I've done incorrectly or limitations with my hardware maybe? It did 10 flops and did this then 15 more and stopped again. It says:

SOLVER: stopped (timeout reached)
wait_for_solver ok!
PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem Quote
05-28-2018 , 06:40 AM
How do I deactivate one copy of my edge license (to move to a new computer)? I feel stupid asking but I can't find anything on the updater or viewer about it.

Edit: of course as soon as I post I found it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ozjfnatwms&t=321s. It would be useful to put this in the UPI scripting PDF as I did look there first but the deactivate command is not mentioned.
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