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Old 05-11-2018, 03:51 PM   #4001
CodythePATRIOT
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

BOL
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Old 05-11-2018, 04:34 PM   #4002
CodythePATRIOT
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Ok punter so I just upgraded from basic to pro (Order #15346)

I just built a new PC that I want to run pro on ASAP and I wondered how to do that. Download PIO pro on the new PC and insert license? Or does it have anything to do with my basic license?

Secondly, I am building another gaming PC for which I want to run PIO. I used PIO basic on my laptop but going forward the calcs will be done on these machines. What would be the process for running PIO on this PC?
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Old 05-12-2018, 02:19 AM   #4003
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Trying to run multiflop aggregation report. When I go analysis>runouts aggregated frequencies analysis over multiple files. I got error message: "This feature works only for flop saves with board in the file name"
Are you on the newest version? (1.10.16 for the viewer). There was a small fix for that. In general the script generates file names according to a pattern so it should just work. Problem may occur if you generated them yourself. Anyway, make sure to use the newest version and let us know if there is still a problem.

Quote:
How are piosolver's solutions different than poker snowie's solutions? If I input the exact ranges that poker snowie uses for a given spot will it give the same solutions piosolver will give?
I don't use Snowie so I don't have much understanding of how it works. Based on their claims on the website though they are not really an equilibrium solver but a program which matches various opponent types and tries to come up with a strategy which works across the board. You really need to ask them how their software works and what guarantees about the solutions they have (we give total exploitability of a solution).

Quote:
How do you get piosolver to show discounted combos on later streets? For example, say we fold a certain hand in the range on the flop a certain % of the time. I have noticed from watching videos that the colored part in the box that displays the hand is smaller on the turn because we fold it some % of the time on the flop. Is there an option to turn this on? Thanks
Yes, here:
https://gyazo.com/438971299ed273424b8d5ba95eeb358b

Also see FAQ:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ozjfnatwms (question number 9)

Quote:
Hey Punter, I was thinking of building a new pc and I was wondering what CPU you would recommend for piosolver. I heard the amd threadripper 1950x has been benchmarked pretty well for piosolver. But which CPU could you recommend for home pc made for piosolver? thanks for your help
Depends on your budget and expectations. Thread Ripper is a serious CPU, offers the best performance/price ratio but is still pretty expensive. You can consider 8 core Ryzen as well. Intel CPUs guarantee that your system is going to be stable (there were issues with first generation AMD CPUs and compatibility with various components, you would need to consult hardware experts to know if they were resolved).

Quote:
1) What is the minimal accuracy required to only find out the optimal flop bet size and nothing else? (when building a tree I input 4 flop bet sizes then when I find out which one PIO prefers I build another tree with only that size)
I don't think it can be answered in general. Probably depends on the tree. Luckily you can watch the solution while it's improving and decide for yourself if it looks like one bet size is getting far ahead.

Quote:
I have a 6 year old desktop computer with 8 RAM, 2 cores and 4 logical processors that takes 30 minutes to solve a single raised pot with one bet sizing on each street. With that in mind if I were to upgrade to PIO Pro how long would it take instead? Could my computer even handle scripts or does it just suck too much for that?
I will need exact CPU name to answer that.
In general speed is proportional to number pf physical cores * frequency they run on. As this is an older CPU there is likely a significant performance difference comparing to the newer one as well.

Quote:
3) On your website you mention servers but I don't have a clue how those work, in my case would one be useful (to improve the tree building speed) and if so can you give a specific example of a cheap option (not just the name of a website), and how long would solving a single raised pot take using that option on Basic and Pro respectively please?
Please ask about it on our Discord, maybe people who rent servers can give specific answer. It's hard for me as I can only base my estimation on what the website claims. I am renting 16 core Xeon with 192GB of RAM myself but this is an expensive machine.
You can still easily estimate the speed by using number of physical cores * frequency they run on formula.

Quote:
I just built a new PC that I want to run pro on ASAP and I wondered how to do that. Download PIO pro on the new PC and insert license? Or does it have anything to do with my basic license?
Sadly you need to wait till we send you the license. Usually the delays are a few hours.

Quote:
Secondly, I am building another gaming PC for which I want to run PIO. I used PIO basic on my laptop but going forward the calcs will be done on these machines. What would be the process for running PIO on this PC?
You install it there and run? I am sure you mean something else though but I am not sure what
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Old 05-12-2018, 04:40 AM   #4004
CodythePATRIOT
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

What I mean is this. I now have been emailed my PIO pro license. Will it work on the two computers I built assuming I just download PIO pro and input the license.

More specifically I didn't know if the license was limited to the computer you bought basic for. I don't plan on using this laptop for sims anymore, but rather on my two new computers.
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Old 05-12-2018, 05:27 AM   #4005
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
What I mean is this. I now have been emailed my PIO pro license. Will it work on the two computers I built assuming I just download PIO pro and input the license
Yes.

Quote:
More specifically I didn't know if the license was limited to the computer you bought basic for.
It isn't. We allow moving the license within for purposes like new computers, long travelling or some experimentation. They are not floating licenses but you always can recover it from your old/stolen/lost computer and move it to a new one.
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Old 05-12-2018, 10:32 PM   #4006
yellowbastard
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

When I input the ranges and bet sizes into piosolver, click "build tree", then click "go" what exactly is piosolver doing?
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Old 05-13-2018, 04:12 AM   #4007
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

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When I input the ranges and bet sizes into piosolver, click "build tree", then click "go" what exactly is piosolver doing?
It does alternate steps for OOP/IP players. In every step it improves the strategy of a given player. You can see it yourself by refreshing strategy in a chosen node every few seconds and see how it changes during solving.

Doing those steps is very computationally expensive because to improve a strategy you need to know EV of every action (to move in direction of the highest EV). It's important not to overshoot the adjustment as then counteradjustment from the opponent may make our new strategy very bad. There are many ways to make this process efficient. We use one which isn't public (it's our invention). In comparison to most popular public solving algorithm (CFR+) our way has the following advantages:

1)It uses way less memory
2)It converges to true overall frequencies much faster (CFR+ jumps around a lot even if averaging is used and very good overall accuracy is reached)
3)It's very good on trees with many bet sizes (converges to good accuracy in less step than most CFR+ implementations)

and disadvantages:
1)It often doesn't converge to exactly 0 (well, in reasonable number of steps)
2)It leaves very infrequent but sizeable errors in the solution (let's say it calls 0.999 of the time instead of every time when there is meaningful EV difference)

Both disadvantages are related to smaller memory usage. In our assessment that's the trade-off worth making for most users as most users really want to build bigger trees with more bet sizes with as little RAM as possible.

I can answer some specific questions about what the solver is doing as well. I will likely not go into implementation details though as those are too technical for public discussion.
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Old 05-13-2018, 02:55 PM   #4008
Ikillpikachu
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Hi,

Today I've tried to activate my license on a second computer, but I get an error notification that I have already used my license on two computers. I have one activated on my dedicated server, but I have no idea where the other is activated. Is there a possibility to reset those settings so I can use my other activation on my own PC?

Thanks in advance,

Ruben
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Old 05-13-2018, 05:32 PM   #4009
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Today I've tried to activate my license on a second computer, but I get an error notification that I have already used my license on two computers. I have one activated on my dedicated server, but I have no idea where the other is activated. Is there a possibility to reset those settings so I can use my other activation on my own PC?
Yes, email us including your key and approximate date of the activation (or location) so we are able to reset the one you have no longer access to. If you can still run the software on the server you can reset it yourself, like here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ozjfnatwms (question number 3)
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Old 05-14-2018, 02:42 AM   #4010
Kalupso
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
2)It leaves very infrequent but sizeable errors in the solution (let's say it calls 0.999 of the time instead of every time when there is meaningful EV difference)
That is a little annoying for some ways I use PIO, and an alternative algorithm using more RAM without those limitations would be very useful for some applications.

P.S. The last update seems to have fixed the small viewer bugs.
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:00 AM   #4011
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

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That is a little annoying for some ways I use PIO, and an alternative algorithm using more RAM without those limitations would be very useful for some applications.
Yes, I already have it in development (that's how I know how other algorithms behave) in various version. We plan on releasing those in the future.
The problem with making CFR+ defautl (other than memory usage, especially if you use averaging with it as well) is that for many people it's important to get overall frequencies right quickly. For example if you try 3 bet sizes on the flop you want to know if one is picked 80%+ of the time. CFR+ can produce solutions in for example 0.15%-0.3% exploitability range which vary a lot in those early decisions (as they are very close in EV), only when it gets to really low numbers those frequencies start to be stable.
This is not an issue on every tree but it is frequent enough issue that we've got a lot of complaints and feedback about it from people using solvers based on CFR+ variations.

Still, there are tempting things about it, major one is that it solves simple trees (not so many bet sizes) quickly and "cleanly". I definitely see value in it and I've spent significant amount of time implementing and optimizing those for future releases.
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Old 05-15-2018, 12:08 AM   #4012
dont3betme
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

hello! i bought piosolver basic from with skrill about two years ago. i checked the website and there is an option, i can buy another account for $125, is this still up? lmk if yes and would buy
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Old 05-15-2018, 03:31 AM   #4013
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
hello! i bought piosolver basic from with skrill about two years ago. i checked the website and there is an option, i can buy another account for $125, is this still up? lmk if yes and would buy
In general we don't offer that because there is a pro version which you can upgrade to.
If you really want basic version with 2 activations instead though please email support@piosolver.com attaching your key and describing what you need (because I won't know that your email is connected to this post).
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Old 05-15-2018, 06:07 AM   #4014
dont3betme
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

I checked the website and I dont see the upgrades options. Can you tell me what is the cost from basic to pro? I guess I will get another activiton with that as well
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Old 05-15-2018, 08:20 AM   #4015
Riverbanged
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Whenever I try to open trees that I've run through scripts I can't open them and the following error message pops up:

"Failed to load file
The solver couldn't load the selected file
The most likely reasons reasons:
- The file is not a Piosolver file
- The file comes from an ancient PioSolver version
- The file is corrupted"

Has anyone else encountered this issue or knows a way to solve it?
Thanks
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:27 PM   #4016
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
I checked the website and I dont see the upgrades options. Can you tell me what is the cost from basic to pro? I guess I will get another activiton with that as well
The upgrade is listed here:
https://piosolver.myshopify.com/prod...to-pro-upgrade

Yes, you can use the pro version on 2 computers at the same time.

Quote:
Whenever I try to open trees that I've run through scripts I can't open them and the following error message pops up:
Without going too deep into that, please update to the newest version:
https://www.piosolver.com/blogs/news...ersion-1-10-18

and it will go away.
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:30 PM   #4017
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

We've just released 1.10.18 version. It's a non-urgent bugfix release, see here:
https://www.piosolver.com/blogs/news...ersion-1-10-18

We are still in the process of moving to Discord:
https://discord.gg/h3J4ank

The Skype group is obsolete and will be disbanded in coming 10-14 days.
Discord is starting to get some traffic and already has 200+ members. While it's not as mainstream as Skype yet it's definitely much nicer and technologically advanced.
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Old 05-17-2018, 11:31 AM   #4018
Novembersdoom
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Is it possible to generate preflop charts images with frequency in percentages, rather than just empty squares?
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Old 05-17-2018, 01:30 PM   #4019
AsianJeff
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Is there a way for me to build post flop tree on random flops?
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:31 PM   #4020
VeryBadThings
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

I bought new computer and tried to run PIO (PRO) on it but can't.. it says that it was activated on maximum number of computers.
1 activation was on mine, 1 was on friends.
Now I would like to deactivate on my old laptop and activate on this new desktop computer. Tried to "disconnect" on old but nothing happens.. still same message on new computer
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Old 05-18-2018, 12:26 AM   #4021
PTRonFire
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Is it posible to make the script run "lock node" on all the flops in the script?
Example: 100% Bet Flop for IP.

In the "Script generation" tab there is a field "Commands to execute on each tree before saving". Is it used for this and how?
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Old 05-18-2018, 03:26 AM   #4022
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
Is it possible to generate preflop charts images with frequency in percentages, rather than just empty squares?
In the main view they appear if there is enough space to fit them (you can resize). If you need them in "generate series of images" feature that's currently not possible.

Quote:
Is there a way for me to build post flop tree on random flops?
Click generate script button, there is a feature in left upper corner to generate random flops. You can use that.

Quote:
I bought new computer and tried to run PIO (PRO) on it but can't.. it says that it was activated on maximum number of computers.
1 activation was on mine, 1 was on friends.
Email us (support@piosolver.com) describing the situation and attaching your key and we will sort it out for you.

Quote:
Is it posible to make the script run "lock node" on all the flops in the script?
It isn't because every flop is different and you would need some kind of universal language to describe what you are locking on every flop.

Quote:
Example: 100% Bet Flop for IP.
100% thing is better achieved by just removing actions from the treebuilding. You can add/remove arbitrary lines. This has additional advantage that the trees will solve faster. See here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLGpcZavxeQ (point 1)
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Old 05-18-2018, 04:22 PM   #4023
selouan1991
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

I created some trees using the script, my ideia was get the equity realization
for a specific spot, e.g: BB defend vs open EP 15%, but if i put 100% for the OOP range
on first test, and after this i input 50% for the OOP range, the equity realization will
change for each hand, its possible to know the equity realization for all hands for any
specific spot?? I saw Bencb using a playabilty profile with all % for each hand, for BB defend for exemple, but i cant understand how its possible to create this full playability profile.
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Old 05-18-2018, 06:33 PM   #4024
punter11235
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Quote:
I created some trees using the script, my ideia was get the equity realization
for a specific spot, e.g: BB defend vs open EP 15%, but if i put 100% for the OOP range
on first test, and after this i input 50% for the OOP range, the equity realization will
change for each hand, its possible to know the equity realization for all hands for any
specific spot??
I think I've just answered your email. Let me repeat the answer here:

Equity realization is EV/EQ. EV depends on our and opponent's range (if we have tighter range we can play more aggressively in general). Equity realization for every range doesn't exist. You should estimate real range. You can try adding other hands with small weight (like 0.005) os you get the results for them as well.

Quote:
I saw Bencb using a playabilty profile with all % for each hand, for BB defend for exemple, but i cant understand how its possible to create this full playability profile.
"Playability profile" idea is a crude approximation. It isn't correct mathematically and will backfire if you try to "solve" spots using it. In general it's based on circular reasoning: we first estimate EVs to get equity realizaiton "profile" and then we use that to estimate EVs to solve preflop. If only things were that simple...
That being said you can still get something interesting but it's in no way guaranteed to be close to real solution.
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:08 PM   #4025
7a.m.@hu
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Re: PioSOLVER - postflop equilibrium solver for Holdem

Few questions (postflop solving):

-It is possible to tell pio the ev of some lines is bigger than equilibrium? (for exploit, let say betting small gives 10%+ev)

-If thought pio was completely transparent of preflop range and strategy of the oponent
(i mean oop know the exact preflop range of ip and how ip play it in this node and this itineration step )

But i think i was wrong for the strategy part, and actually for each hand oop will play it against each hand of ip vs the ip strategy find in last step.
But oop have no idea how IP plays. he just know the regret sum from his last step.

Am i on the right tracks?
Thank you
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