Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Commercial Software Discussion of commercial gambling-related / poker software & commercial graphics modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-30-2017, 08:14 PM   #1901
Haarlem91
veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,016
Re: ICMIZER 2

yo i just upgraded my regular ICMizer to the ''pro version''

i don't like it though.. is there any way to revert? if not, how can I just go back to the regular version after my first payment?
Haarlem91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 06:40 PM   #1902
Brussels Sprout
old hand
 
Brussels Sprout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sabbatical
Posts: 1,623
Re: ICMIZER 2

I was reviewing hands from a session today when I got the following unexpected result:



So it's basically saying that I can profitably shove any two cards with 6 players behind me, two of whom have me covered.

Surely this cannot be correct? I set it to MTT mode with 100 players remaining. I got a similar result for Chip BB EV.

I presume that the default calling ranges are at the heart of this. How are they determined?
Brussels Sprout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 10:20 PM   #1903
Q
Pooh-Bah
 
Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,510
Re: ICMIZER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brussels Sprout View Post
I was reviewing hands from a session today when I got the following unexpected result:



So it's basically saying that I can profitably shove any two cards with 6 players behind me, two of whom have me covered.

Surely this cannot be correct? I set it to MTT mode with 100 players remaining. I got a similar result for Chip BB EV.

I presume that the default calling ranges are at the heart of this. How are they determined?
Hi. In this case your opponents are calling too tight, that is why you can shove so wide.
There is not really such a thing as "default ranges" in ICMIZER. There are ranges which are used for calculation. If you use the Calculate Nash ranges button, ICMIZER will find the Nash ranges for the specified situation. If you don't, it will use the ranges as they are displayed for the calculation. In general, you are responsible for the ranges you use for the calculation and for the result.

I've done Nash calculation so ICMIZER finds optimal ranges for all players, and our shoving range looks like this:



It is recommend to do the following 3-step sequence to get optimal strategy in any ituation:
Calculate Nash ranges -> Manually adjust ranges based on your reads of your field -> Calculate.
Q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 10:23 PM   #1904
Q
Pooh-Bah
 
Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,510
Re: ICMIZER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haarlem91 View Post
yo i just upgraded my regular ICMizer to the ''pro version''

i don't like it though.. is there any way to revert? if not, how can I just go back to the regular version after my first payment?
Hi. If you are within our Money back guarantee (first month after first purchase of non-monthly subscription) terms, we can refund the upgrade cost.
If not, you can simply cancel automatic renewals of your subscription and then purchase a Basic subscription after the current PRO period is over.

https://icmizer.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...CMIZER-2-Basic
Q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2017, 10:25 PM   #1905
Q
Pooh-Bah
 
Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,510
Re: ICMIZER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffyslayer1 View Post
Hi

Is there a issue with how BB cev and Cev are displayed? For example this spot where we 4b jam AA only makes 20 chips?

https://gyazo.com/427e51aed0eb24862d3ec5492ee49455
We've found the problem and resolved it.
Chip EV calculations with custom (user-created) tournaments were not presenting correct results. The default tournaments worked fine in Chip EV and that's how this problem went unnoticed during the QA stage.
Q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 02:16 AM   #1906
buffyslayer1
Pooh-Bah
 
buffyslayer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,464
Re: ICMIZER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Q View Post
We've found the problem and resolved it.
Chip EV calculations with custom (user-created) tournaments were not presenting correct results. The default tournaments worked fine in Chip EV and that's how this problem went unnoticed during the QA stage.
thanks for this and the quick response. I played around and was going to mail you this could be the problem.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
buffyslayer1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 07:15 AM   #1907
Brussels Sprout
old hand
 
Brussels Sprout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sabbatical
Posts: 1,623
Re: ICMIZER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Q View Post
It is recommend to do the following 3-step sequence to get optimal strategy in any ituation:
Calculate Nash ranges -> Manually adjust ranges based on your reads of your field -> Calculate.
Ah ok, I haven't been using that Nash button up until now. That'll probably make a big change to my calculations. Thanks very much.
Brussels Sprout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 10:34 AM   #1908
Haarlem91
veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,016
Re: ICMIZER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Q View Post
Hi. If you are within our Money back guarantee (first month after first purchase of non-monthly subscription) terms, we can refund the upgrade cost.
If not, you can simply cancel automatic renewals of your subscription and then purchase a Basic subscription after the current PRO period is over.

https://icmizer.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...CMIZER-2-Basic
i am within the guarantee, its been like a day. how can I get a refund exactly? I don't seem to find it.

thanks.
Haarlem91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 11:45 AM   #1909
Q
Pooh-Bah
 
Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,510
Re: ICMIZER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haarlem91 View Post
i am within the guarantee, its been like a day. how can I get a refund exactly? I don't seem to find it.

thanks.
Hi. Please send some details about your order and account to support@icmpoker.com and we will downgrade your subscription to Basic.
Q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 11:46 AM   #1910
Q
Pooh-Bah
 
Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,510
Re: ICMIZER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by buffyslayer1 View Post
thanks for this and the quick response. I played around and was going to mail you this could be the problem.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
You're welcome!
Q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 11:47 AM   #1911
Q
Pooh-Bah
 
Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,510
Re: ICMIZER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brussels Sprout View Post
Ah ok, I haven't been using that Nash button up until now. That'll probably make a big change to my calculations. Thanks very much.
Glad to help! This is a very important change in using ICMIZER and it should significantly improve everything.
I also recommend to read this article to make sure you don't miss anything else:
http://www.icmpoker.com/en/blog/how-...and-histories/
Q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 01:34 PM   #1912
Brussels Sprout
old hand
 
Brussels Sprout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sabbatical
Posts: 1,623
Re: ICMIZER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Q View Post
Glad to help! This is a very important change in using ICMIZER and it should significantly improve everything.
I also recommend to read this article to make sure you don't miss anything else:
http://www.icmpoker.com/en/blog/how-...and-histories/
Thanks very much. I see in that article that it suggests using the FGS with depth of 6. However in this article I read that this would make the calculations take minutes rather than seconds.

I currently play $2.50 tournaments. I seem to recall reading somewhere that FGS can be ignored at smaller stakes. Should i stick to the simple ICM or would I be better off going with a lower depth FGS as a compromise (say FGS2 for example)?



Also since i am playing these stakes I come across a lot of limpers, even at later levels. Today alone I've been busted by limp-callers who were holding AJo and A10o. Now the Nash calculation won't work for limpers. If I change the limp to a min-raise, calculate the Nash limp-calling range and then use that whilst reverting back to a limp will that likely be accurate?
Brussels Sprout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 03:46 PM   #1913
Haarlem91
veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,016
Re: ICMIZER 2

Thanks. I sent an email.

I have a different question now.

Is there any way at all to analyze 4 way all in situations?
Haarlem91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 06:15 PM   #1914
Q
Pooh-Bah
 
Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,510
Re: ICMIZER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brussels Sprout View Post
Thanks very much. I see in that article that it suggests using the FGS with depth of 6. However in this article I read that this would make the calculations take minutes rather than seconds.

I currently play $2.50 tournaments. I seem to recall reading somewhere that FGS can be ignored at smaller stakes. Should i stick to the simple ICM or would I be better off going with a lower depth FGS as a compromise (say FGS2 for example)?



Also since i am playing these stakes I come across a lot of limpers, even at later levels. Today alone I've been busted by limp-callers who were holding AJo and A10o. Now the Nash calculation won't work for limpers. If I change the limp to a min-raise, calculate the Nash limp-calling range and then use that whilst reverting back to a limp will that likely be accurate?
Hi. That article is giving basic recommendations. With FGS6 you will be getting maximum FGS level depending on the number of players at the table. So for 9 players it will still use FGS2.

If you're playing SNGs at low stakes, FGS is still very relevant. It is relevant not because of stakes, but because of average stack size and number of players remaining at the table. With 3-4 players and stack size <10BB FGS is very important at any stakes.

As for limpers, they never follow Nash strategy, especially at 2.5$ stakes.
You just assign them the range based on your read and check how to act. If you are seeing them limping strong hands, you can observe that pushing isn't a good idea without a very strong hand.

There are some limpers who just limplimplimp, like 50% ranges. Against them nash ranges are also not needed, just manually assign them on ranges you think make sense for them to limp/call ur all-in.
Q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2017, 06:17 PM   #1915
Q
Pooh-Bah
 
Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,510
Re: ICMIZER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haarlem91 View Post
Thanks. I sent an email.

I have a different question now.

Is there any way at all to analyze 4 way all in situations?
Hi. Got the email, we'll process it soon.
Regarding 4 way - no, there is no way to analyze 4 way all-in, it is just too difficult computationally, the task is too big. The good thing is that the limitation is very relevant to real world games, where 4 way all-ins happen very rarely.
Q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2017, 12:59 PM   #1916
Brussels Sprout
old hand
 
Brussels Sprout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sabbatical
Posts: 1,623
Re: ICMIZER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Q View Post
If you're playing SNGs at low stakes, FGS is still very relevant. It is relevant not because of stakes, but because of average stack size and number of players remaining at the table. With 3-4 players and stack size <10BB FGS is very important at any stakes..
Ok so FGS is good for short-handed play. Would you also recommend it for 9 handed play, especially say for reviewing hands far out from the bubble?

Edit: Ah ok I see that it is self limiting. Ok so in that case why is there an option not to use FGS. Under what circumstances would you recommend unchecking the FGS checkbox?

Last edited by Brussels Sprout; 12-03-2017 at 01:20 PM.
Brussels Sprout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 09:25 AM   #1917
Q
Pooh-Bah
 
Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,510
Re: ICMIZER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brussels Sprout View Post
Ok so FGS is good for short-handed play. Would you also recommend it for 9 handed play, especially say for reviewing hands far out from the bubble?

Edit: Ah ok I see that it is self limiting. Ok so in that case why is there an option not to use FGS. Under what circumstances would you recommend unchecking the FGS checkbox?
Hi.
We try to force the minimum with our software. After all it is a calculator. Both ICM and FGS are models. If someone believes that under some circumstances they should be using ICM and not FGS, with ICMIZER they can choose to do so.
At this point, I don't see strong reasons not to use FGS model.
Q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 04:36 PM   #1918
Q
Pooh-Bah
 
Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,510
Re: ICMIZER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by mashxx View Post
Not sure but ICMIZER reads this hand as me having AA at 50/100

***** Hand History for Game 16652540204 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $2.20 USD Buy-in Trny:154404041 Level:18 Blinds-Antes(4 000/8 000 -800) - Sunday, November 12, 21:22:00 CET 2017
Table Flyweight. Title Fight Micro Warm Up - $2K Gtd (154404041) Table #29 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 7/8
Seat 5: LaBifle99 ( 224,865 )
Seat 3: Romiel777 ( 322,655 )
Seat 4: alntyme ( 106,400 )
Seat 2: arcfull ( 315,900 )
Seat 7: lythinda1 ( 296,000 )
Seat 8: marcincs330 ( 506,247 )
Seat 6: mashus ( 92,200 )
Trny:154404041 Level:18
Blinds-Antes(4 000/8 000 -800)
arcfull posts ante [800]
Romiel777 posts ante [800]
alntyme posts ante [800]
LaBifle99 posts ante [800]
mashus posts ante [800]
lythinda1 posts ante [800]
marcincs330 posts ante [800]
marcincs330 posts small blind [4,000].
arcfull posts big blind [8,000].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to mashus [ 9c Kh ]
H2OPS has joined the table.
Romiel777 folds
alntyme folds
LaBifle99 folds
mashus folds
lythinda1 folds
marcincs330 folds
arcfull does not show cards.
arcfull wins 17,600 chips
Hi. Forgot to mention it here, the problem was resolved around a week ago.
Let me know if you run into anything else.
Q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2017, 08:38 AM   #1919
Haarlem91
veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,016
Re: ICMIZER 2

If you do not wish to use the features of the PRO version, please cancel automatic renewals and purchase a Basic subscription
once the PRO is expired.

--------------------

ok cool, where do I make that change? Can't find it..
Haarlem91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2017, 12:28 PM   #1920
Q
Pooh-Bah
 
Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,510
Re: ICMIZER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haarlem91 View Post
If you do not wish to use the features of the PRO version, please cancel automatic renewals and purchase a Basic subscription
once the PRO is expired.

--------------------

ok cool, where do I make that change? Can't find it..
Hi. Please refer to this guide:
https://icmizer.zendesk.com/hc/en-us...s/115003083753
Q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2017, 04:08 PM   #1921
PokerIvey
centurion
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 166
Re: ICMIZER 2

Hello Support,

Is it possible to integrate hotkeys for the calculation function on the icmizer tab? That would be great.
PokerIvey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2018, 05:25 AM   #1922
g3r4rd0x
grinder
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: aint over son
Posts: 655
Re: ICMIZER 2

Hello
How do i setup icmizer to calculate this spot in a satellite


And also is there an option for push/calls with PKO mtts in cEV
i saw only $EV in the youtube tutorial.
Thanks!
g3r4rd0x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 06:19 PM   #1923
Q
Pooh-Bah
 
Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,510
Re: ICMIZER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerIvey View Post
Hello Support,

Is it possible to integrate hotkeys for the calculation function on the icmizer tab? That would be great.
Hi
Currently this is not planned, but we will consider it in the future after the ICMIZER 3 launch.
Q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 06:24 PM   #1924
Q
Pooh-Bah
 
Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,510
Re: ICMIZER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by g3r4rd0x View Post
Hello
How do i setup icmizer to calculate this spot in a satellite


And also is there an option for push/calls with PKO mtts in cEV
i saw only $EV in the youtube tutorial.
Thanks!
Hi. Currently, our MTT mode supports only up to 100 players remaining, so sat with 100 payouts is not supported.

However, you can easily emulate similar bubble pressure by recreating similar situation using 80 or some other number of satellite payouts.

Say you wanted to review the situation when 120 players are remaining and 100 places got paid. You can create a tournament with 80 payouts and 120/100*100= 96 players remaining. They will be facing similar bubble pressure and the strategy will be similar.

Regarding PSKO and chip EV. Remember that chip EV is what it says, calculates results in chips. The number of chips at the table is fixed, so chip EV calculations always produce the same results as if it were a cash game. Complex tournament payouts like KO, PSKO or even 2 or more payouts cannot be simplified to chips.
In each of these cases, you need to convert stacks from chips to their monetary representation using some kind of appropriate model (ICM, IKCM, FGS, etc.) in order to get the real world strategy.
Q is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2018, 07:42 AM   #1925
buffyslayer1
Pooh-Bah
 
buffyslayer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,464
Re: ICMIZER 2

hi
you used to be able to look at 3b/4b and then 5b jams in icmizer. At present I don't seem to be able to do it. (unless I am making a mistake). Is this functionality down or has it been removed.
I get a error with too many vpips when I try and do this now.

Thanks

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
buffyslayer1 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online