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Old 01-18-2013, 07:53 AM   #151
HateMonday
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Re: ICMIZER support

thanks, that worked
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:38 PM   #152
SiungTong
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Re: ICMIZER support

Does ICMizer support Lock Poker(Revolution Network) HH? I tried to load them and it didn't work. I am registered but don't have a subscription yet.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:09 AM   #153
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Re: ICMIZER support

Hey SiungTong, currently not. Supported formats include: PokerStars, FullTilt, PartyPoker,Merge,Ongame &Ipoker & most HM formats, and some forum formats.

You can send me a pack of lock poker hands and I could add their support at some point. (Via PM or email preferably)
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:36 AM   #154
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Re: ICMIZER support

hi

before i consider buying the program i need some more info plz

1)
can guess the following situation cannot be analyzed:

i raise and behind me are 2 allins: what range i need to call then ?

will that be implemented because this scenario happens, although rather rarely.

2) i dont understand the simple push feature. in sngwiz i can assign ranges for the guys behind me. icmizer has nothing of that?

also it is not possible to analyze: somebody raises. 1 caller: with what hands we can push with. it is just possible after they got allin. but it happens that somebody steals, a weak fish just calls a weak range: then you have Foldequity with pushing. sngwiz can analyze that.

i look forward to the FGS. for example this hand from someone

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/36...-spot-1291500/

i dont know what to do in that spot. i'd puke for sure. shoving and taking the BB is both -ev. but what is less -ev.

the shorty has to go allin 50% due to nash, but i doubt he does that. everyone is very tight in his shoes. nash does only see the actual hand.
even with FGS i dont know if you can get reliable results. its a tedious work to assign a range for each player. (50+ numbers to tip in or so?)

although sngwiz is somewhat inaccurate (mostly 0.1-0.3%) it looks more userfriendly and beside the raise-calling feature (restealing) which sngwiz does not have i am not too convinced so far.

imo there should be a trial period, doesn't have to be long, 10 days or something.

i hope the critics wasn't too harsh, i'll read more about the program what it can carry out

regards
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:01 AM   #155
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Re: ICMIZER support

Hey this is not really critics, its just lack of your understanding of ICMIZER features. Its a rather complex software so your second question for example shows that you simply didn't quite understand the user interface.

1) This scenario can't be analyzed currently. yes it is totally analyzable and it will be added along with FGS in near time.

2) ICMIZER provides most precise calculations, so of course its possible. Check this article (first part) to get better understanding of how to assign push ranges for players after hero. http://www.pokericmcalculator.com/en...es-in-icmizer/


Quote:
also it is not possible to analyze: somebody raises. 1 caller: with what hands we can push with. it is just possible after they got allin. but it happens that somebody steals, a weak fish just calls a weak range: then you have Foldequity with pushing. sngwiz can analyze that.
This situation is not analyzable in ICMIZER cause when you fold there is no way to predict your EV fold, what exactly happens on the flop between those 2 players we can't predict. ICMIZER doesn't support pushes over limpers currently for exactly that reason.

I dunno what wizard does, but if it provides some number for this type of spot it obviously has very little actual value in this spot cause like I say its impossible to say how chips will be distributed in postflop scenario, and thus predict our equity here.

Main things about SngWiz comparison are not just correct results and far more complex calculations that ICMIZER does, but

1) ability to assign nash ranges - this single feature is the most complex in ICMIZER and it quickly allows to get actually useful results for even zero skill players.

2) unrestricted hand range editing - enough has been said about this limitation

On top of that ICMIZER has MTT ICM calculations which arent available anywhere basically.

I recommend you to watch some icmizer videos to get better idea how to use it.
Ive recently recorded a video which can be very useful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISlPk5M8BNY

And I will send you a 7 day trial key, no problem btw.
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:18 PM   #156
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Re: ICMIZER support

Quote:
This situation is not analyzable in ICMIZER cause when you fold there is no way to predict your EV fold, what exactly happens on the flop between those 2 players we can't predict. ICMIZER doesn't support pushes over limpers currently for exactly that reason.

I dunno what wizard does, but if it provides some number for this type of spot it obviously has very little actual value in this spot cause like I say its impossible to say how chips will be distributed in postflop scenario, and thus predict our equity here.
Yeah sure our $EV-Fold can`t be analyzed tough or shove $EV can be analyzed(It obviously helps to know one of these Numbers). Also these scenarios are important for cEV-Analysis. I don`t even use ICMIZER for ICM-Analysis and only use it for cEV(I`m sure I`m not the only one).

So it would be really nice if you include the following scenarios:

Raise and Call in front of us, cEV of us shoving.

We Raise and call behind of us, somebody squeezes EV of us shoving(Having 2 people behind us to act).

Multiple Allins in front of us.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:07 PM   #157
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Re: ICMIZER support

First post

Hi! I'm an italian user. I'm having some problems to load PS.it hands to the program.
It appears a popup showing the write "Unable to parse provided text as valid poker hand".

I spoiler you a .txt of a generic hand

Spoiler:
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:54 AM   #158
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Re: ICMIZER support

Hi, Im new to ICMIZER and have been running some analysis alongside SNGWIZ.

I seem to be noticing that as a general rule of thumb ICMIZER is suggesting much tighter shove ranges.

For example, in this very basic 6max BBL spot. SNGWIZ tells me 25% and ICMIZER tells me 15%. This is such a gigantically large difference that I am now concerned for my game. What is mean is that - both programs cannot be right can they?

It is very possible that I have done something very basic wrong with the input but at the moment everything seems ok to me.

I will show screenshots of both programs.

Any help would be much much appreciated!








Thanks again guys

Solidthought

Last edited by Solidthought; 01-30-2013 at 07:56 AM. Reason: picture not working
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:50 AM   #159
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Re: ICMIZER support

Solidthought, Hey yes. 2 programs cannot be right. And as I said ICMIZER uses much more sophisticated formulas and provides more precise results.

Although for this spot its impossible to say what actual difference is, because you do not provide all ranges that are used by Wiz to perform calculation.

Notice that resulting range is calculated using all provided ranges for opponents.

That is their call ranges, push ranges in case you fold, and overcall ranges.

Here on screenshot from Wiz we can see that SB and BB call ranges are alike to ICMIZER call ranges against your push in %(12 and 25 respectively).

I can see that in ICMIZER sb pushes 81% and bb calls 5.1%, but I cant see how wide SB pushes. Also we cant see BB overcall range which also affects results a little.

Its very important to understand where results are coming from, and ALL ranges are influencing results, so check ranges first.

Jcasablancas, Welcome, thanks for posting

I will take a look at that type of hand and try to figure what could be wrong, usually euro hands are parsed.

Could you post additional hands under spoiler so I can test this with bigger certainty.
Thanks
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:23 AM   #160
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Re: ICMIZER support

Quote:
Originally Posted by Q View Post
Solidthought,
I can see that in ICMIZER sb pushes 81% and bb calls 5.1%, but I cant see how wide SB pushes. Also we cant see BB overcall range which also affects results a little.


with 81 / 5 for sb + bb its +1,00 %. so a negligible result

@NiSash1337 made some good points. i'd be interested in that functions too
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:06 PM   #161
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Re: ICMIZER support

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbfreak View Post
with 81 / 5 for sb + bb its +1,00 %. so a negligible result
Well if you think that correct result is 1.07% and 1.00% is wrong, and mistake 0.07% in one hand is negligible you couldnt be farther from truth.

Imagine buyin is 15$, so total prize pool is around 15*9=135$.

Now 0.07% of prize pool is roughly 0.1$ (0.0945$ to be precise).

Now lets calculate what kind of ROI we are making if we make 0.1$ in 15$ game, that would be 0.66% ROI (0.1/15 *100).

Having that ROI in whole tournament can't be too bad in 2013, and notice here you call such value a negligible mistake in single hand.

Understanding what exactly this difference means is pretty important. Realize that hands go one after another and it quickly adds up to huge total mistake overall if you take wrong results.


As for additional features, I'll comment on that later.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:45 PM   #162
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Re: ICMIZER support

sure, but i dont know if wiz and icmizer took the same handrange for that calculation. difference can be due to the tie factor as well

i dont wanna argue with you^^, but honestly, just beeing wrong 0.07% each hand: you are doing very well. nobody is that perfect to never make a blunder.
we gain a lot too when others splash their heads each other.
ingame you cant say against someone's range my hand is now 0,74 % ^^
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:14 PM   #163
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Re: ICMIZER support

Well we are running offtopic here, so to wrap it up:

Yes, wiz results are wrong because it incorrectly calculates tie spots, which you call tie factor.

And yes, of course you are the one to choose whether you want to use a correct calculator software, or incorrect, and ignore mistakes.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:41 PM   #164
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Re: ICMIZER support

Spoiler:


Spoiler:


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Old 01-30-2013, 03:18 PM   #165
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Re: ICMIZER support

Jcasablancas, I have added support for this hand modification, if others don't work please post them too.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:58 PM   #166
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Re: ICMIZER support

Perfect, now it works perfectly
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:27 PM   #167
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Re: ICMIZER support

Hello, Q.

Is it possible to add "equity sum" for HU situation? I mean it's already being calculated in your program (we have exact equities for every hand of 100% range), but is it possible to add a field which shows average equity for suggested range based on how each hand compares with given push/call range (and on hand frequency ofc)? And simple win % of suggested range versus op's range would be useful (stove isn't much help because your little program forms it's own ranges based on how each hand performs vs actual op's range and it's kinda hard/uncomfortable to copy/paste it every time). Actually it would be cool to add chip calculation feature which will show how much you win/lose in given situation with given ranges (simple math and really simple coding).

Anyway thanks for qualitative product, it being pretty useful for me.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:35 PM   #168
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Re: ICMIZER support

Quote:
Originally Posted by to1R View Post
Hello, Q.

Is it possible to add "equity sum" for HU situation? I mean it's already being calculated in your program (we have exact equities for every hand of 100% range), but is it possible to add a field which shows average equity for suggested range based on how each hand compares with given push/call range (and on hand frequency ofc)? And simple win % of suggested range versus op's range would be useful (stove isn't much help because your little program forms it's own ranges based on how each hand performs vs actual op's range and it's kinda hard/uncomfortable to copy/paste it every time). Actually it would be cool to add chip calculation feature which will show how much you win/lose in given situation with given ranges (simple math and really simple coding).

Anyway thanks for qualitative product, it being pretty useful for me.
Hey , I am not 100% sure I understand what you are requesting. Could you provide sample spots, and sample data that you would like to be able to see in them.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:37 PM   #169
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Re: ICMIZER support

Quote:
Originally Posted by NiSash1337 View Post
Yeah sure our $EV-Fold can`t be analyzed tough or shove $EV can be analyzed(It obviously helps to know one of these Numbers). Also these scenarios are important for cEV-Analysis. I don`t even use ICMIZER for ICM-Analysis and only use it for cEV(I`m sure I`m not the only one).

So it would be really nice if you include the following scenarios:

Raise and Call in front of us, cEV of us shoving.

We Raise and call behind of us, somebody squeezes EV of us shoving(Having 2 people behind us to act).

Multiple Allins in front of us.
I am working about something about this, but its going to be a surprise.

Multiple Ai before us isnt going to be available ever, 4 way calculations are just too difficult to run (check pokerstove) and spots are joke-rare. 2 AI before hero are already supported.

Last edited by Q; 02-05-2013 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:21 PM   #170
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Re: ICMIZER support

Quote:
Originally Posted by Q View Post
Hey , I am not 100% sure I understand what you are requesting. Could you provide sample spots, and sample data that you would like to be able to see in them.
Look if we got OP's push from sb with some known range and icmizer counts equities for all hands and shows profitable calls. I want to be able to see how it is profitable on average. How many chips per hand we are winning when calling with this range against OP's range. Not with actual hand (your program showing this number) but with whole range on average. And second part - it would be nice to see the final sum of the hand with given ranges. For example if blinds 25/50 we got HU with 500 chips both. SB pushes let's say 50% range. icmizer says 30.3% of hands are better to be called and not folded. Now we can easily get the expectation of whole hand with these ranges: 0.5*25 + 0.5(0.303*(0.55583*500 - 250) + 0.697*(-50)) = 12.5 - 13.196 = -0.696. Which means we are losing ~0.7 chips in this spot on average. It would be nice if icmizer could show this EV for every HU situation.

Also I've found that icmizer uses different range layout format. If there're all aces in range - icmizer shows "A2+". But pokerstove needs: "A2s+,A2o+" to work properly. Should be fixed also.
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Old 02-06-2013, 02:28 AM   #171
bbfreak
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Re: ICMIZER support

hi

can you plz add:

someone limps (giving him limprange), i shove: and then give him a callrange.

and what happens very often: sb-bb. sb completes and i am in BB. what i can shove then.

ty

Last edited by bbfreak; 02-06-2013 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:02 AM   #172
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Re: ICMIZER support

bbfreak, yes that is planned to be added in next big update which is being prepared right now.

I have added support for new PokerStars 180 players SNG MTT and 90 players SNG MTT payouts.

An article about this with my analysis of this change
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Old 02-16-2013, 04:37 AM   #173
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Re: ICMIZER support

this article does not open
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:43 AM   #174
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Re: ICMIZER support

Sorry, here is the article about this with my analysis of this change
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:50 AM   #175
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Re: ICMIZER support

thanks very good article.
i know why i hate stars. nothing is coincidence, everything pure calculation and profit.
there are some smart guys here on 2+2 ; pointing out that itm is worth less and bubble lasts shorter (less exploiting= less roi) and the fishplays on bubble are less bad...

there always is a reason why stars changes something: more profit !

i dont get it, why still everyone is playing at stars while at ongame/cake/ipoker etc you hardly find games at 20$+. those sites are better than their reputation.


another topic: when is the future game simulation in icmizer coming?
if the future hands are based just on nash it'd be useless imo. nobody plays nash ranges
(like sng solver is imo a useless programm).

it is tedious to put in like 20 ranges for everybody for future simulations, but i'd do that. (instead of using nash)

regards
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