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Old 01-17-2019, 01:05 PM   #176
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

I'd recommend to input the stack sizes in chips, but if you enter stacks in big blinds and set BB=1, SB=0.5 then you should get the same results.
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Old 01-17-2019, 03:25 PM   #177
7betpafold
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

thank a lot plexiq. and I would like to clarify my last doubt if it is not a nuisance, when we calculate with icm, the numbers that appear next to each hand, for example 0.01%, refers to 0.01% of the total prizepool of the tournament, for example in a tournament with 50k in prizes, we would say that it has $ 500 ev? (assuming that the entire prize is still distributed) thanks again! sorry for my English
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Old 01-17-2019, 03:45 PM   #178
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

It's either % of table equity (default) or % of total regular prizes. This can be changed at Window: Preferences: Equity Display. If it's % table equity, then the conversion factor to % regular prizes is displayed when hovering your mouse over the hand tab header.

Fwiw, the latest beta also displays the EV directly in $ when you hover over the hand grid.
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Old 01-22-2019, 11:50 AM   #179
SleazyP84
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Is there any way to run Quick Analyse using ChipEV (or any other model) instead of ICM?
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Old 01-23-2019, 05:21 AM   #180
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

We'll add the option for other QA models in the near future for the beta, but currently it's only possible to run ICM calculations.

However, you can simply enter 100% payouts for first prize and the ranges will be identical to a ChipEV calculation.
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Old 01-25-2019, 03:52 AM   #181
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

I'd like to discuss the hand and HRC analyze of it with HRC developers and users.

Hand:


HRC analyze:


HRC says UTG should play A3s and AKo but fold KK
it's unbelievable
can anybody describe me how come that HRC says it?

also it's strange that there is no KK in highlighted by red callers and 3BETters

another interesting question:
why cupra and kju in analyze has C (call) mark and the rest players - 3B?
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Old 01-25-2019, 04:14 AM   #182
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Most importantly: This hand is like 40bb deep and you are running push-or-fold calculations, the results are not going to be useful. It's really not recommended to play push-or-fold at these stack sizes.

Quote:
HRC says UTG should play A3s and AKo but fold KK
it's unbelievable
can anybody describe me how come that HRC says it?
Regarding correctness:
We have deep stacks and a payout structure that discourages confrontations. When you check the calling ranges, they are mostly AA / AKs, with a few KKs included in later positions. Blocking an Ace with hands like Axs is more important here than the extra equity from KK.

This is consistent with more general results for deep stacked push-or-fold, check the example calculations in "Mathematics of Poker" if you have a copy. At very deep stacks the first hands that become pushes besides AA are A5s and ATs and the first call outside of AA is with AKs. (Again, this is not relevant in practice because actually playing push-or-fold at these stack sizes is generally a very bad idea.)

Quote:
another interesting question:
why cupra and kju in analyze has C (call) mark and the rest players - 3B?
That's simply based on stack size. You are calculating push-or-fold action. If a player's stack is larger than the original pusher's, then pushing is technically a 3-bet. Otherwise it's a call.
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Old 01-25-2019, 05:01 AM   #183
hairyguy
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Does HRC has any solutions out of push-fold? for postflop
Is there some quick ways to get into clipboard or directly into HRC currently playing hand from a pokerroom?
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Old 01-25-2019, 05:10 AM   #184
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

The Advanced Hand option allows you to setup smaller raises etc. You need to be careful when allowing flat calls or limps though: Postflop is assumed to always simply check down, so you should avoid dependencies on the EV of Postflop lines. For more info check the Advanced Hand section of Help: Help Contents.

If your poker site is supported then you can paste hands from the ClipBoard via the paste button in the Hand Setup dialog. Note that live calculations are prohibited on some sites (e.g. PokerStars, FTP), make sure you don't violate your site's ToS.
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Old 01-25-2019, 05:23 AM   #185
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

PartyPoker hand history format is supported by HRC. But I see no possibility how can I get a currently playing (not finished) game into a clipboard.
It would be enough if HRC had an option to set stacks from previously played finished game automatically shifting a dealer.
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Old 01-25-2019, 05:28 AM   #186
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

No such option at this time, and we currently don't have plans to implement it because live calculations are at best a grey area on most sites. If any large site explicitly allows live calculations then I'm happy to add a full fledged live mode.
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Old 01-25-2019, 06:23 AM   #187
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

is there a way to quickly edit multiple ranges of a solution + to lock some ranges + refresh (best solution) almost without clicks?
I mean something like additional settings from clipboard

I'd like to describe an example of what I mean
I have huge statistics on some players
I know that in such definite situation he calls all-in 20% of hands
And it is very different for HRC GTO for such situation
So I'd like to recalculate solution locking his new (edited) range
And I'd like to make it without manually editing his range, than manually locking it and than for many players click for the best solution
Something like load commands from clipboard
Is it possible?
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Old 01-25-2019, 06:44 AM   #188
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Not supported at this time, adjustments to ranges need to be made manually.

Using aggregated statistics can be very deceiving in tournament situations, they are less reliable than in e.g. a cash-game setting. Ranges of competent villains will vary widely based on the exact stack configuration and that's quite tricky to filter for while maintaining a decent sample size. Simply filtering for "BU with 9bb effective stacks" is not going to be sufficient.

Is there some popular 3rd party tool that would provide the range estimates? Otherwise this seems like a niche option for a select few users who tinker with their own tools/scripts.
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Old 01-25-2019, 07:01 AM   #189
hairyguy
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

I understand the deceiving of low data statistics.
But I think for some players I have enough of "9BB effective stack button" like data
I don't know the software You described.
I am a programmer. And I have pretty experience of poker tools programming. And I need money. May be I could write the tool you are interested in for acceptable (not big) price.

Today is the first day I am exploring HRC more detailed than quick look.

Suggestion for HRC:
Basic Hand Data screen remembers the last settings.
It is very good.
I'd like to see on it "Remove the first positioin" button.
Or setting its stack "0" should remove the villain.
EDIT: It would be better to have "remove" button next to each stack
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Old 01-25-2019, 07:19 AM   #190
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Regarding the last suggestion:
Try the beta version available in the download section. In the beta you can remove stacks by simply setting them blank, e.g. setting first position from "1234" to "" will remove that player.

You can contact me directly at helmuth@holdemresources.net about programming, lmk if you have any projects etc online already.
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Old 01-25-2019, 07:46 AM   #191
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

It would be good if you could rename tabs/hands to something more meaningful than "Hand 4" for when you have multiple ones open.
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Old 01-25-2019, 09:09 AM   #192
hairyguy
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]


click to enlarge

omg in 34% range there is no JJ and TT

I suppose your software has some bugs
I'll write you directly
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Old 01-25-2019, 09:12 AM   #193
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Lol, what's the payout structure? I'd guess all players have the same guaranteed payoff, in which case ranges etc have no effect on the EVs and you get random strategies. (eg payoffs for 6 player DoN with 3 or less players remaining)
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Old 01-25-2019, 09:45 AM   #194
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

payout structure:

click to enlarge
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Old 01-25-2019, 09:50 AM   #195
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Yeah, that's what I thought. All players are guaranteed a payout of 100, it literally does not make any difference what ranges they play. So you get random strategies. Set the first place to 101 and you'll get something sane.
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:01 AM   #196
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

oh. my bad
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:31 AM   #197
hairyguy
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

payout structure and ranges (click to enlarge)


it says that the prize structure makes unprofitable to call raising 100% UTG with AA for MP1 and even for BB

do you have an explanation?

EDIT: I have a sense like all callers of UTG are not aware about 100% range of UTG
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:53 AM   #198
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Looks fine, that's just Double or Nothing bubble play.

Click on one of the calling ranges to check if they actually have any skipped +EV calls, in that case you may need to run additional Nash iterations using the green button in the toolbar. But Exploit% values in the outline indicate that the ranges are already in equilibrium.
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Old 01-25-2019, 01:08 PM   #199
hairyguy
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

if your HRC is right 85.2% of doubling stack that is 13 BB for Big Blind player is not worh 14.8% of losing
the lowest stack player is CU with 7.4 BB stack
so the chance of win for BB player is more than 85.2%
it is almost impossible to believe that it is more profitable to fold AA hand but well even if all players had equal stacks the chance to win for a player would be 5/6*100 = 83.33%
hard to believe but it is possible
let's look at CU player with 7.4BB stack (the lowest)
he should fold JJ
JJ vs any2 has 77.47% equity
doubling it's stack doesn't worth 22.5% chance of lose according to HRC
wow
if it is true (I plan to check it) today I made unbelievable discoveries for myself

CU should be the first player that will need to call all-in and it is probable that till the end of the game he will not have a batter chance to call all-in than JJ vs any2
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Old 01-25-2019, 01:45 PM   #200
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

@hairyguy. With respect, the results you are getting are not new to people who have read books like Kill Everyone or Mathematics of Poker, or learnt by playing around with this kind of software as you are now doing.

This software is used by people with a lot of experience and study behind them of playing tournaments so if you get something you didn't expect then rather than assuming there is a bug that no one has found before you did, it's far more likely to mean you have either made a mistake in specifying what you wanted to ask (double check it) or you have learnt something new about how to play the position.

Enjoy learning, but cut out the comments to plexiq about "If your HRC is right".

As well as using the ICM mode, you also might want to try some of these positions in FGS mode (it simulates a few hands ahead so is more accurate than ICM but obviously takes longer to get its results).
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