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Old 04-07-2019, 05:06 AM   #301
tumaaas
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Hi guys I have to say that I am learning recently to use HRC and I would like some clarifications on how to use it in the review of a tournament.

Halmuth-Harville ICM
Multi table (MTSNG / MTT) ICM

What is the difference between these two functions and when they are applied within a tournament?
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Old 04-07-2019, 05:20 AM   #302
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

If there is only one table left in the tournament then both models produce exactly the same results.

The regular Halmuth-Harville ICM mode calculates only a single table, so this can only be used for STTs or for final table calculations. The Multi table (MTSNG / MTT) ICM mode supports calculations with multiple remaining tables remaining, there is an additional dialog page to setup stacks from other tables when this model is selected. (If you are only starting out, I'd strongly recommend the beta version over the regular one. The MTT configuration is much simpler there.)
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:31 AM   #303
tumaaas
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Quote:
Originally Posted by plexiq View Post
If there is only one table left in the tournament then both models produce exactly the same results.

The regular Halmuth-Harville ICM mode calculates only a single table, so this can only be used for STTs or for final table calculations. The Multi table (MTSNG / MTT) ICM mode supports calculations with multiple remaining tables remaining, there is an additional dialog page to setup stacks from other tables when this model is selected. (If you are only starting out, I'd strongly recommend the beta version over the regular one. The MTT configuration is much simpler there.)
Where i can see this?

Summing up

Halmuth-Harville ICM for the final table
Multi table ICM with remaining multi table and we are ICM

But I have a question, I use poker tracker as a database to save tournaments etc and in the tournament information I only have the total of tournament entries and the final payout and stack value. After registration I sign how many players will go and the payout distribution. Let's assume there are 500 ITMs since I will be itm and I will go to review the tournament how can I make HRC understand that by going ahead with the hands the number of left players will be decreasing? I don't think he does the calculation by himself. For example, considering always to be ICM the 400 left game will be different than the 20 left where we are still not considering the other model .... I explained myself?
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:39 AM   #304
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Select MTT ICM as equity model, then click the "Next" button at the bottom of the dialog page. On the next page you will have to specify how many players are remaining in the tournament. The exact steps differ between beta/stable.

Steps in the beta:
https://www.holdemresources.net/blog...w-mtt-icm-mode
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:41 AM   #305
tumaaas
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

I can't understand what you're referring to with the stable and beta version ..
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Old 04-07-2019, 10:30 PM   #306
AJay
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

I've been looking a various scenarios with 15BB. It's a range where there's some debate about whether to always push or not. So I've been looking at HRC's recommendations given the option to raise 2.5BB or push.

When I get the results, I'd like to filter a little and take out the hands that are just barely EV. So I right click on an all-in range and filter on, say, 0.10 EV.

But that grabs all the hands that are > 0.10 EV. It takes the hands that are listed as being better as a 2.5BB bet, and it moves them into the all-in range.

Now, I get that the hands that are added to the all-in range (from the 2.5BB range) meet my filter criteria of having an EV > 0.10. But I don't want to "steal" hands from the other range. Rather, I want to see which hands, with an EV > 0.10 are best to push with and which are best to bet 2.5BB with.

It would be nice if there were an option to not "steal" hands from the other betsize ranges. (Or is there, and I just don't know how to do it?)
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:03 AM   #307
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

I'll see what I can do about that.

My recommendation would be to leave ranges without a minimum edge though, removing all the marginal hands will result in fairly exploitable ranges.
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:48 AM   #308
AJay
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Quote:
Originally Posted by plexiq View Post
I'll see what I can do about that.

My recommendation would be to leave ranges without a minimum edge though, removing all the marginal hands will result in fairly exploitable ranges.
I don't disagree, but...

1) At the stakes I play at, I don't think most players are savvy enough to pick up on the change, and

2) At the stakes I play at, I find that players call shoves more loosely than they should. In cash, I'd often be happy with that, but in tournaments, non-GTO play by my opponents can also hurt me.
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:53 AM   #309
tumaaas
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Guys I found a problem in the hrc setup when I want to review a tournament in multitable ICM mode.

Why on the right makes me fill in only the top 10 positions?
Another thing, I have to examine a tournament with rebuys and add-ons but it makes me a calculation of the total players based on the chips I tell them that is not true, I am attaching the screen of the tournament ... it tells me that they remained in the game more than 2500 players but in reality the tournament was from 1839.

1839 players
2803 re-buy
644 add-ons
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Old 04-08-2019, 11:12 AM   #310
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Can't see a screenshot, but you need to fill all prizes. Note that the table is scrollable, just start to enter prizes and additional lines will be added.

Regarding remaining players, make sure you enter the correct total chips, including chips from rebuys.
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Old 04-08-2019, 11:21 AM   #311
tumaaas
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

I entered both re-buy and add on.

Starting stack 5000 chips, the re-buy is 5000 chips and the add on of 20000 chips.

5000 * 1839
5000 * 2803
20000 * 644

I added the 3 results and gave me 36 090 000 chips

When I get the "general mtt stack" table how do I have to complete it?

Do I need to modify remaining player and put 1839? But in reality I have no idea how many players remained at that moment of the tournament because I can't know.

Last edited by tumaaas; 04-08-2019 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 04-08-2019, 11:58 AM   #312
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

The number of remaining players will be guessed from the total chips and the chips on the active table, but this can be off quite a bit - especially for rebuy tournaments. If the default guess isn't right then simply override it in the dialog when generating the other stacks.
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Old 04-08-2019, 12:25 PM   #313
tumaaas
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

uhm ok

but what number do I enter if I have no idea how many players remain? It puts me over 2500 players but it's not the re-buy player or add that player number.

In my opinion the program does not take into account the possibility that it is a chip due to rebuy or add on but counts as a new player even if in reality when a player is eliminated it will only increase the stack of another player but the number of players will not change once the rebuy is redone. I think it gets confused about this thing.
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Old 04-08-2019, 12:29 PM   #314
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

The program simply looks at the average chips per player on your active table and assumes that the global average is the same, e.g. if the average stack on your table is 5k and the total number of chips in the tourney is 500k, it will assume 500k/5k = 100 players remaining. This will be in the correct ballpark most of the time, but sometimes it will be off if your table average is very different from the global one.

There's nothing we can do on our end, that information is simply not available from the hand histories. You either need to make notes about player counts for the hands you want to check up on, or make a rough guess.
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Old 04-08-2019, 01:48 PM   #315
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJay View Post
2) At the stakes I play at, I find that players call shoves more loosely than they should. In cash, I'd often be happy with that, but in tournaments, non-GTO play by my opponents can also hurt me.
Isn't it more beneficial to set weighted ranges for your opponents without locking your own and calculate optimally exploitative ranges for yourself (then possibly repeat the process, imitating opponents' readjustment to you in their own ways)?

Last edited by coon74; 04-08-2019 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 04-10-2019, 02:20 AM   #316
tumaaas
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

I believe there is a way to be able to set it as close as possible to reality. I would like someone else to enter into the conversation to understand how it sets it. I think it is fundamental because in delicate phases of the tournament where maybe we are 200 left and 150 go to the prizes the program tells me that instead we are on the 300 left or more. I am convinced that the approach to the tournament changes considerably.
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Old 04-10-2019, 02:22 AM   #317
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Post the full example you used, including chip counts on your active table, and I'm happy to go through it for you.
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Old 04-10-2019, 02:53 AM   #318
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Was that hand in question played when rebuy/add-ons were still open?

In that case the actual total number of chips in the tourney was actually lower when the hand was played, I assume you entered the final total in the program. Based on that increased total the # of remaining players would be over-estimated, I'd still enter the final total and simply adjust the # remaining though.

It's not clear if there are any alternative calculations to get a better estimate for the # remaining. I can't think of any, but I'm certainly open for suggestions.
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:42 AM   #319
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Quote:
Originally Posted by plexiq View Post
If you are only starting out with MTT calculations, I'd strongly recommend giving the current beta version a try. MTT calculations are more accurate and considerably easier to setup there.

https://www.holdemresources.net/blog...c-public-beta/

Steps in the beta:
1) Paste stacks from HH
2) Select MTT ICM model
3) Enter the payout structure: You only need to enter the jump points, repeated prizes can be skipped. Remember to save the structure if its long. (I'd recommend to enter the actual structure, but you can alternatively enter the full 25k as first prize, but that will essentially skip the ICM part of the calculation.)
4) Bounty: For regular bounties select bounty mode KO and enter the bounty per player. For progressive select PKO and enter the bounties next to the players' stacks if they were not automatically pasted from the HH.
5) Click next, use the top button to generate remaining stacks from other tables. Ideally you need to know total chip count and the number of remaining players. Click ok and make sure the numbers in the stack summary match your expectation.

That's it, click finish.

[Just for clarification: It's also possible to generate all 70 tables at once in the old version using the top button next to the tables, you don't need to enter them one by one. The old interface is indeed not very user friendly though.]
Are you sure thats the only thinh we need to do? I saw a video from bounty beast course where the guy explains how to set up HRC, using a stars hh where the bountys are automatically pasted on HRC and to have accurate results he says we still have to make sure the avg bounty in your table makes sense to reflect the bounty prize pool still in play.

There is no way to make this happen automatically? I mean, if its possible to determine that in a 1500 players mtt, when 150 players left the bounty price pool remaining is ~38% , adding an option where the program calculates this would be very helpful.
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Old 04-10-2019, 11:04 AM   #320
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

By default, HRC assumes that the average bounty per player in the tournament is the same as the average bounty per player on the active table. That should be in the right ballpark, but if you have more accurate info then you can tweak the bounties of uninvolved players to get the correct average.

I agree this should be easier, we'll add an option to explicitly override the global bounty average in one of the next updates and maybe include a model to estimate the remaining bounty %.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:16 AM   #321
tumaaas
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Quote:
Originally Posted by plexiq View Post
Was that hand in question played when rebuy/add-ons were still open?

In that case the actual total number of chips in the tourney was actually lower when the hand was played, I assume you entered the final total in the program. Based on that increased total the # of remaining players would be over-estimated, I'd still enter the final total and simply adjust the # remaining though.

It's not clear if there are any alternative calculations to get a better estimate for the # remaining. I can't think of any, but I'm certainly open for suggestions.
True, I hadn't thought of it, it is possible that the hand I was examining was long before rebuys and add-ons were over, which is why I overstimate the number of players in the tournament. But then how do I make the correct calculation? It becomes even more complicated.

If I want to examine a certain hand in a phase of the tournament in which it is not known whether the period of add on is finished or even just the possibility of re-entry how can I determine the number of chips I have to enter in the program?
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:44 AM   #322
plexiq
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Re: HoldemResources Calculator [HRC]

Don't really have any clear recommendation for you.

Keeping the final total chip count might actually be ok, just keep the artificially high player count. (You probably want to model somehow that chips will still be added to the tourney and that due to rebuys you are actually further from the money than you would be based on stacks / chips only, inflating the # of players seems like a decent way to do that.)

Last edited by plexiq; 04-15-2019 at 12:04 PM.
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