PokerAce/APerfect10,

Only one person has ever been disparaging about the competition, and that's you. Some quotes:

PokerAce: "There are problems with Holdem Manager that I won't get into that lead me to believe it won't be the next PokerTracker"
"I imported 10,000 hands more than Holdem Manager. Pretty big difference actually."
APerfect10: "PT3 makes this a non-decision" (Unsolicited, in a thread about Poker Sharpener).
"I assume you want a product that will still be around in 2008" (same thread).

PokerAce also spammed a BBV thread (a moderator even had to tell you to stop spamming), unfairly comparing your product with HM. In case APerfect10 doesn't realize, this was Roy's answer to those unfair comparisons. This is the first time he's said anything about PT3.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=12520984&pag e=6&vc=1
Roy has been honorable about this whole thing, and respectful of 2+2, never spamming or saying a bad word about anyone, even though there's plenty of bad stuff to say about PokerTracker.

I honestly don't get your attitude. The only reason HM exists is because PokerTracker Pat, sitting on a million+ dollars from his customers, didn't put a cent back into his product, didn't add any of the long requested features which he easily could have, and didn't innovate for years. If anything, you guys should be pleading for your customers to forgive you for treating them like crap. Because apart from everyday customer service (which you're very good at), you've treated your customers very badly when it comes to fixing basic product deficits, innovating, and doing timely upgrades.

If you're going to post one comment, post everything relevant so people get the whole picture. You quoted one post, I'll quote the other, which I made after people misinterpreted my original post:

That was in response to this post:

A 10k hand difference is a big deal when talking about someone's results. In this instance, it was a $10k difference. I don't see how that comment is disparaging. I'm also not sure what you mean by unfairly comparing.

The whole "ugly" thing wasn't said by me. I quoted "ugly" because it's someone else's words, not mine (that's generally what quotes are used for). I offered to post a different looking graph is all and I got slammed for it.

Here's my first post in that thread:

Nothing said about HM in that comment.

Phil, here's your response to other people wanting a PT3 graph:


Actually, now that I go back and read my posts, I don't feel they were "spammy." I was responding to negative posts directed to me. I feel the moderator jumped the gun a bit, but that's his perogative as a moderator. Another poster chimed in thinking my responses were fine.


As for Pat "not putting a cent" back into his product, you have no idea what you are talking about. You have no idea how much time answering HUNDREDS OF QUESTIONS PER DAY takes. In addition to all that support Pat was doing, he has gone through a lot in his personal life the past few years. Things that took up so much of his time that I have no idea how he managed to keep up with support issues as it was. As for hiring new help, well, that's not as easy as you think. For one, the job wouldn't be "secure" in the traditional sense. People who would be qualified to do the work either wouldn't want to do it (they'd make more money playing poker), or they wouldn't want to risk getting into a volatile industry.

Phil, for someone who claims not to have any sort of personal interest in HM, you sure do go out of your way to make negative comments towards PT3. You were the first to say something negative in the FGators thread, which this whole discussion is based on.

This thread is about Holdem Manager. I suggest everyone gets back on topic. If you have problems with me or APerfect10, please either send it via PM or if you insist on making it public, put it in our thread.

I have only ever commented when you spam or say negative comments about a competitor, and then only a fraction of the time you've done it. And I have zero interest in HM.

I have made no negative comments toward PT3. Only negative comments towards your attitude on these forums. I happen to like 2+2 and post here a lot, whereas you just use it for commercial gain.

Everything you say is fine...except for the fact you guys started VERY quickly as soon as competition came on the scene. The difficulties suddenly disappeared.

You guys started it, here and elsewhere. Don't spam, don't say bad stuff about competitors, and all is roses

Apologies to Roy for taking up his thread, but you guys are getting worse and worse with this stuff and something needed to be said.

ok guys, this thread is about HM. I have a lot that I could say but then this whole drama in my thread will continue if I responsd so let's drop this.

Roy

Offering to show a graph (when it is being requested) is not spam or a negative post. You posted a graph from your product after it was requested, so my post is no different.

I was reading and posting on this forum for a long time before I even starting writing PA Hud. Most of my replies on this forum is in response to questions being asked about my product. Yes, lately I have been posting about PT3. Considering there are dozens of posts from developers about their up and coming and new products (even promoting their commercial products, which I was told was not allowed and therefore, refrain from suggesting my own product when people ask for opinions), I don't see this as a problem.

The difficulties disappeared because I was fortunate enough to find a partner who knew my product well and was able to offer superb support, therefore giving me time to spend developing. He is sacrificing a lot to help us and he is gambling on the future of the company.

I will not be responding to any more of your posts in this thread. If you feel the need to get in the last word, go ahead.

Roy, I'm sorry for this hijack. I will not be posting in your thread anymore. Let's turn this back into a friendly competition and everyone will win.

Phil - well said.

Just as GameTime+ was getting long in the tooth, paving the way for the superior PAH, the PT/PAH combo has long been begging for an overhaul.

If HM is what it took to shake PT into action, then great - this shows that competition ultimately benefits the consumer. Once PT can release a product to back up their promotion, we can judge both apps on their merits. In the meantime, HM is delivering verifiable results, not promises.

Cheers, Carl.

[Edit - removed parts of post which seemed to continue the debtate - didn't see how things had flared up, nor Roy's request to keep things on track before started responding].

Haha.. what games are these? You raise more in EP than MP and and get 3-bet more the earlier you raise.

I think early= utg + middle

I don't think poker tables exist with more than 6 players at them.

When I first ran this report I thought it must be wrong but when you think about it, when you raise from UTG there are 5 players who can 3bet you. From middle position there are 4, Cutoff 3 and so on. So that is why you will almost always be 3bet more often when you are UTG however the range of hands you are 3bet with is actually smaller.

And regarding EP vs MP, MP only exists when there are 6 people playing at 6max. When there are 5 or less the MP position does not exist (EA/CO/BTN/SB/BB)

rvg

Middle is listed twice? Early= utg + middle then middle listed again (I think it's just an error)

wow Roy you have done an amazing job with this product I really have to hand it to you. can't wait for the HUD to come out and I will certainly be purchasing this even if it ranges >$100. One thing I would like to mention is since yours doesn't have a HUD and Realtime's HUD has got to be the best out there. Their new version has it to where when you move your mouse over certain stats like VPIP it gives you a pop-up box for more in-depth stats like calling open raises and limp-calling. If this set-up was incorporated in your HUD, you would own this market hands down. Just thought I'd put in my two cents. Thank you for all your good work and many poker players will be in your debt still even after purchasing your product.

I cant get Holdem manager to import. I am using windows xp and have tried to import party and stars hands and crypto hands. I am using a PostgreSQL.

whenever I try to import nothing happens.

Any ideas?

Just wanted to make sure this wasn't lost in the last few pages of "friendly competition"

the XML files are there but they aren't showing up in reports.. mm?

For some reason HM won't open for me today.

I get an error that says unhandled exception. It say's name cannot begin with the " character, hexadecimal value 0x20. Line 12, position 42.

Did you happen to try customizing some reports? It sounds like one of them has some invalid xml.

pm sent

I'll update the link tonight with this fixed

You probably have the same issue a few others have had with importing. THe new build provides a fix - It'll be ready soon..

rvg

No I haven't done anything with the reports or anything else.

FGators lifetime graph doesn't look so bad if you count FPP's as equivalent to 25% rakeback (blue line is winnings with rakeback)



rvg

for the reports tab, is there a way to view stats based on a specific week? or a weekly basis?

PT3 guy's you need to grow up!!! I personally will never buy PT. I think it's horrendous that every app. for PT is another price/download oh wait you are now bundling it all and re selling it.....??? Ah yea you're customers are really making out now .....er are they hmm they have to re buy it again so who makes out again with PT?
And yes I did just bash PT
HM you obviously have a good product of which they are scared of and trying to retain some of their customer's. After talking with you trying your product I am most likely purchasing it and doing away with Poker office which I hate but currently use because I refuse to buy PT products.

How 'bout some bet sizing stats on the HUD? Like "won at showdown when cbet was 1/2 pot". obv this is board dependant but might come useful vs the bad players.

if i do note can colour code the player
would HM hub show it?
after do note on player at fulltilt, there is no icon that show you have done a note.....

That graph doesn't look too bad at all once the points are added in. There's certainly easier ways to make money, but at least he's in the black!

With respect to Rakeback, will HM offer the method FTP uses to calculate it (rake paid per hand divided by number of players who had cards dealt?)

Cheers, Carl