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Old 06-30-2007, 04:26 PM   #126
chris228
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

@rvg72

If you like i can send you such a ongame database.

Showing current hand action and pot odds is a feature of PO, so I guess the sites didnt have a problem at least with these "simple" indications.

I think its becomes just problematical, if an extern tool gives you advices if you should fold/call/raise...

But another idea about ev stats:

Maybe you can add such things at least for the hand history replayer, so its easier to check how good my decisions were.
I think about including something like pokerstove into the replayer, so that i can easly make equity calculations based on the opponents ranges. As starting point for the opponets range the "calculator" can take just take the suitable stat and than giving me the opportunity to add or del specific hands if i have a better read what the opponent may holding.

But even if you dont implement something like this I looking forward to a replayer with the HUD stats directly on table :-)
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Old 07-01-2007, 04:56 AM   #127
DrewOnTilt
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

Suggestion: if you have not done so already, please get in touch with the makers of IdleMiner. I use this program frequently for Full Tilt datamining. If I am to switch from PT to this new program then I would like for it to work together with IdleMiner.
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Old 07-01-2007, 05:16 AM   #128
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

Quote:
Suggestion: if you have not done so already, please get in touch with the makers of IdleMiner. I use this program frequently for Full Tilt datamining. If I am to switch from PT to this new program then I would like for it to work together with IdleMiner.

Idleminer simply saves HHS in the same format as the sites do - thus, no modification would be required for this.

(ie, if Holdem Manager can read the hand histories from the sites normally, it can read the idleminer handhistories)
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Old 07-01-2007, 12:12 PM   #129
Albert Silver
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Showdown luck

Here's a suggestion for you:

While players cannot control variance, they can usually get an idea as to whether they are running cold or hot by looking at the Showdowns Won%. This is far from perfect since if I only went to showdown with AA, and my SD won% is 60%, I'd actually be running cold and not hot, despite the clearly over 50% mark. Ideally, I'd like two things, if at all remotely possible:

1) have the program evaluate my actual confrontation chances, and compare this with the actual results, and tell me if I was in fact lucky or unlucky and by how much. This would be shown in both percentages (ex: I won 48.5% of the encounters, but should have expected 52.4%) and chips. For example, it wouldn't make a difference if it concluded I was lucky in most of my small confrontations, but lost 10 times that much in the fewer larger ones I lost. (leak?)

2) Include pot odds in the confrontation choices. While calling an allin while behind 45-55 might seem to be a mistake, if the pot is giving me 60-40 odds, it is a good deal. Ideally the program would factor this in while estimating if I'm running hot or cold.

I realize this is not easy to do, and even with an internal PokerStove-like tool might take some time (eons?), yet it would still be an interesting option I think.

Albert
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Old 07-01-2007, 02:15 PM   #130
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

Quote:
Quote:
Suggestion: if you have not done so already, please get in touch with the makers of IdleMiner. I use this program frequently for Full Tilt datamining. If I am to switch from PT to this new program then I would like for it to work together with IdleMiner.

Idleminer simply saves HHS in the same format as the sites do - thus, no modification would be required for this.

(ie, if Holdem Manager can read the hand histories from the sites normally, it can read the idleminer handhistories)
There is a small bit of interaction between IdleMiner and PT.
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Old 07-01-2007, 04:23 PM   #131
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

This is the same thing as albert really but here are some more ideas on luck:

Quote:
Hey,

I think we need to look into more "luck" factors..

Such as..How many times you should hit a straight compared to suited connectors you play, how many two pairs you should be winning, a normal winning percentage for AA, KK, QQ over the long run, Times your KK runs into AA, and then most importantly your all-in equity.

Such as: You get all in pre with QQ vs AJ. Over the long run you will win, but if you lose right then, then it was somewhat "bad luck." How about taking every all-in situation, see how much you should win, and compare.

Ex: You should win 60% of the time in an all-in situation and you get all-in for $100. If you win, you are +$40, if you lose you are -$60. I think this is how the equity and stuff works, but you are the experts not me..

Here are examples of rudimentary scripts made for this purpose, which I think should be included in your software:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...;gonew=1#UNREAD
http://www.pokerevsoftware.com/

I am in the midst of a downswing(have played over 750k hands so I know I am a winner) but am having trouble finding leaks/places where I am getting unlucky, and I think for the price we should have a lot of things to focus on finding problems in a downswing, and as you know luck is a big factor but your program's "luck" is only on flopping sets, which is a very small part of your overall luck
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Old 07-01-2007, 05:30 PM   #132
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

I'll try to answer all of the recent questions that haven't been answered already

1) Properly importing tourney results without summaries is something that HM should be able to do in most cases. Tourney Manager does this right now so I should be able to borrow a bit from it.

2) The replayer will have pot odds / ev type analysis and possibly more. I don't have any issue with displaying this type of analysis in the replayer but very likely not going to be doing it on the HUD in realtime.

3) You can check out http://www.rvgsoftware.com for my free 3/4 bet preflop EV analyzer. This is the type of functionality that I will add to the replayer.

4) Please send me the Ongame database (tourneymgr@gmail.com). According to PokerSiteScout they are number 4 in volume so that puts them near the top of the todo list. Just to repeat though, I'm not working on any new sites at the moment - 100% of my effort is going into getting the public beta ready. If there is time before the 15th then I'll start working away on the new sites.

5) All-in EV analysis will be in the program either integrated or as a part of the PokerEV free version.

6) Anyone know what kind of interaction exists between Idle Miner and PT?

7) Prodigy, a lot of that comes down to the all-in EV analysis and the other stuff will hopefully be developed by 3rd party developers. Non all-in EV analysis is really something that needs to be done right otherwise it becomes meaningless and potentially damaging to your game so I'll leave that to the people that are willing to focus on it.

Thanks,

rvg
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Old 07-01-2007, 05:38 PM   #133
garvin
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

I can help with your question 6) - integration between PT and Idleminer.

The only integration I am aware of is that Idleminer can automatically start Poker Tracker and click the appropriate menus to start a import (e.g either Party or Full Tilt).
So the integration needed is actually a Idleminer issue, as previously stated the HH are according to each site specification.

As everyone else, I am very excited about this software - looks very promising - cant wait to beta test.
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Old 07-01-2007, 05:42 PM   #134
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

Quote:
7) Prodigy, a lot of that comes down to the all-in EV analysis and the other stuff will hopefully be developed by 3rd party developers. Non all-in EV analysis is really something that needs to be done right otherwise it becomes meaningless and potentially damaging to your game so I'll leave that to the people that are willing to focus on it.
I agree and (IMHO) think that a really well designed PT, PAHUD and PokerGrapher replacement should be the priority aim of the software (at least to start with).

Juk
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Old 07-01-2007, 05:44 PM   #135
rvg72
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

Quote:
The only integration I am aware of is that Idleminer can automatically start Poker Tracker and click the appropriate menus to start a import (e.g either Party or Full Tilt).
ok thanks for letting me know. I am reasonably sure that this reason this is done is because Poker Tracker chokes on large imports so by starting the automated import IdleMiner is able to get around this. Let me know if this is not the case.

Holdem Manager will take multi MB hand history files and process them without issue. In fact, the hands imported per second rate is generally faster with larger files than smaller ones.

Thanks,

rvg
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:43 PM   #136
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

this looks so sick, well done as usual rvg.

is there any way to combine our old PT databases with this one ?
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Old 07-01-2007, 07:58 PM   #137
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

cliff's notes: HM needs to hand histories to work correctly.

Quote:
is there any way to combine our old PT databases with this one ?
Quote:
Quote:
Not sure if this is a "duh" question, but will it be possible to import postgresql databases from Pokertracker if we haven't saved the original hhf's?
Hi, unfortunately not... I guess an analogy would be, imgine you have a 10 megapixel image (ie the original hand history) and then you convert it to grey scale, drop it down to 800x600 and save it as a gif. No matter what you do you can't bring it back to that 10 megapixel image.

If I imported from the PT database structure without hand histories there would be way too much data missing which would make most of the stats misleading and in most cases outright wrong...

So, save your hand histories!!!


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Old 07-02-2007, 10:45 AM   #138
morny
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

Excellent Stuff, if its half as good as it sounds then im bought and sold.

I posted this on the PO and PT suggestions forum. You see to have alot of complicated stats so maybe you already have something similar but if not would you consider having this one: (Ive just copied and pasted from another forum so ignore any references to PO or PO stats)

-----------------------------------------------------------
Currently we have the stats Agression which reefers to Flop, Turn and River. Its calculated using a formula similar to this:

bet+raise/call

So basically if some is raising and betting more than there calling theyll have a high agression stat and someone who calls too often will have a low agression stat. This helps us disguinish between a passive and an aggressive player on each street.

However lets compare 2 scenarios:

Player 1 bets every single pot and re-raises half the time. He usually bets the full pot and Re Raises 4 times the original raise.

Player 2 bets every single pot and re-raises half the time. He usually min raises and min re-raises.

Both players would have the same or very similar Aggression stats which are not a true reflection

So my additional stat to work alongside agression would be pot strength %. This would be calculated something on the lines of:

% of pot bet

so for example of the other 2 players above say the pot was $10 on the flop and the blinds were $1/$2 then player 1 would have bet the pot and he would be awarded a 100% pot strength

Player 2 min betted into the pot i.e $2 so he bet 1/5th of the pot so he would get a pot strength of 20%

Now to really make the stat useful i would also have a further filtered stat where it would calculate the pot strength when he won at showdown. This would obviously be useful as we want to see how he bets hes good hands. Maybe someone min raises or makes small bets with marginal hands but when he hits a hand he bets full pot hes pot strength % might be 35% but hes Pot Strength When Won At Showdown might be 80%, as soon as we see this lad betting close to the pot we can assume hes hit something decent.

I think this stat would be much more useful on the turn and river than on the flop as continuation bets and small flop pots might distort the flop pot strength % but it would definetly be a great stat for the turn and river.

Of course the above formula might need tweaking as the idea might but it has the potential to become a very useful stat. I would maybe add a condition filter for the turn and river aswell something like this:

If Pot Size >=14 bb

THEN
% of pot Bet ((Size of Bet / Pot Size) * 100

OTHERWISE SKIP STEP

So this would ignore small unraise pots where someone checks the flop and bets 60c on the turn into a 60c pot which looks strong but isnt and in essence it would only record results if the pot was a reasonable size. I would probably be in favour of not having this stat at all on the flop.

-----------------------------------------------------------
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Old 07-02-2007, 01:46 PM   #139
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

Hey RVG, is there any possibility of running this on Linux? I've been lusting for the day I can switch completely from windows, and PT/PAHud is my last real barrier.
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Old 07-02-2007, 02:55 PM   #140
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

Quote:
Hey RVG, is there any possibility of running this on Linux? I've been lusting for the day I can switch completely from windows, and PT/PAHud is my last real barrier.
Will the .NET framework run on LINUX?
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Old 07-02-2007, 03:08 PM   #141
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

There's the mono project at http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page which I haven't tried, but it looks promising. I would be incredibly happy if this app worked on linux.
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Old 07-02-2007, 03:31 PM   #142
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

which poker room as a *nix client?
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Old 07-02-2007, 03:43 PM   #143
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

I think pokerroom is the only one that explicity runs on linux, but pokerstars and I think others run perfectly through WINE
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Old 07-02-2007, 03:53 PM   #144
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

Quote:
There's the mono project at http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page which I haven't tried, but it looks promising. I would be incredibly happy if this app worked on linux.
It is all .NET 2.0 so hopefully it will run under Mono on Linux. If some minor adjustments are needed then of course I'd make them.

rvg
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Old 07-02-2007, 06:22 PM   #145
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

Possible to combine 2 databases to one? can't wait to test this program!
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Old 07-02-2007, 06:51 PM   #146
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

Quote:
Possible to combine 2 databases to one? can't wait to test this program!
Not at the moment at least in an automated way. Good news is that you don't really need more than 1 database. I'll probably create a little tool to merge databases though.

rvg
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Old 07-02-2007, 06:57 PM   #147
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

Quote:
Hey RVG, is there any possibility of running this on Linux? I've been lusting for the day I can switch completely from windows, and PT/PAHud is my last real barrier.
On a similar note, is it possible to locate databases on remote linux host while using main interface/HUD on a windows box / VM?
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Old 07-02-2007, 06:58 PM   #148
rvg72
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

Anyone who likes the idea of advanced filtering should like this. Here are 4 screen shots from the Filter Builder. There is actually a 5th tab, "Vs Player" that will let you filter based on the actions of a certain player (or players). So, for example, show me all hands where player xyz 3-bet me. But... not 100% sure if that will be ready for public beta launch so for now it is hidden.

Tab 1: Main Filters



Tab 2: By Hole Cards



Tab 3: By Hand Value / Draw Value



Tab 4: More Filters (there are currently over 150 additional filters here that can be used individually or together with other filters). The ones with ... usually indicate you will be prompted to enter a value (note all chip/$ values are in BB's) and the ones that shows a "?" usually will prompt you to Select "Yes" or "No" as the filter argument.



rvg
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Old 07-02-2007, 07:00 PM   #149
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

Quote:
Quote:
Hey RVG, is there any possibility of running this on Linux? I've been lusting for the day I can switch completely from windows, and PT/PAHud is my last real barrier.
On a similar note, is it possible to locate databases on remote linux host while using main interface/HUD on a windows box / VM?
I don't think there will be an issue with this - the software lets you specify a connection string and most of the processing is done server side so, especially with HUD stats, not a whole lot of data will be going over the wire.

rvg
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Old 07-02-2007, 07:22 PM   #150
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Re: New Software: Holdem Manager

wow cant wait till this comes out ,
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