CALCULATOR Flopzilla - Page 53 - Poker Software -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Hi,
My friend asked me how often JT suited hit a flop. We defined hitting as any pair (or better), any flush or flush draw, and any straight or straight draw.
we used a combinatorial approach, starting with pairs, adding flushes and flush draws, then added straights and straight draws, accounting for duplication. including gutshots, we lined up within rounding of your program (which is good, since we were using it as a double check)

pairs, us 32.43%, you 32.4%
adding flushes and draws, us 42.53%, you 42.5%
adding straights and draws, us 62.37%, you 62.4%

but then when we made the requirement open ended straight draws and no gutshots, we have a discrepancy. We have the same numbers as you right up until we add the OESD to the range.

we get 50.06% and you have 50.6% given that my approach was unchanged and I have checked it a few times, I was wondering if this was possibly an error of some kind (possibly display, duplication or something else?)

Thanks for your time

I'm sorry, but I can't even reproduce the 32.4% number. Other than that, it's just really not possible for me to assist you in debugging your code; support is not intended for that.

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07-30-2014 , 07:38 AM

#1302

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,353

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Haywood

Thanks.

And if it's not too involved to explain, what is the underlying issue? Several other programs present this annoyance.

It's just that when you not run software as admin all sorts of issues come up. It's a mixed bag; not just one single issue. It just saves an enormous amount of trouble in providing support if you just require that people run as admin.

Quote

07-30-2014 , 09:59 AM

#1303

Nyul86

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 523

Quote:

Originally Posted by scylla

You can just set custom filters for specific hands.
For that, right-click the stat and set individual filters as you see fit.

For more on Flopzilla's filter system, please watch the videos "Video 1: The basics" and "Video 2: The filter system" here: http://www.flopzilla.com/video.html

I know this but it's quite annoying to do it manually as I use this filter quite frequently.

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07-30-2014 , 01:36 PM

#1304

GamblinRick

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 171

Quote:

Originally Posted by scylla

I'm sorry, but I can't even reproduce the 32.4% number. Other than that, it's just really not possible for me to assist you in debugging your code; support is not intended for that.

I think he was saying he thought you had an error in your code since he got the same numbers as your program for every aspect other than the open ended straight draws.

Quote

07-30-2014 , 03:56 PM

#1305

Rep

stranger

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by scylla

I'm sorry, but I can't even reproduce the 32.4% number. Other than that, it's just really not possible for me to assist you in debugging your code; support is not intended for that.

I was saying that your software may have a bug. I wasn't asking for help with my code. I am simply solving the problem manually.

Quote

07-30-2014 , 04:48 PM

#1306

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,353

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyul86

I know this but it's quite annoying to do it manually as I use this filter quite frequently.

Ok, I'll see if I can think of some sort of feature to make this faster.

Quote

07-30-2014 , 04:59 PM

#1307

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,353

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rep

I was saying that your software may have a bug. I wasn't asking for help with my code. I am simply solving the problem manually.

Ok, well, I've checked with CardRunnersEV, which gives the same result. CardRunnersEV has a different engine, so this would pretty much only leave the possiblity that the 8 out straight draw stat is not correctly evaluated (the evaluation fuctions áre the same as in Flopzilla). Over the past ~7 years I have checked all evaluation functions several times with all kinds of different approaches. In fact, I just did so again about an hour ago. Also, if the OESD stat would be off by ~1% there's a ~100% chance that someone would have noticed over the past ~7 years. Finally, the engine gives the exact same results that have been used in literature for years upon years. So all in all, I don't really see how this could be a bug.

Quote

07-30-2014 , 08:37 PM

#1308

Rep

stranger

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by scylla

It seems the issue is the with headings and what they actually mean. If you count all 8 card straight draws as open ended straight draws (OESD), then the 50.60% number is right on. This hand has 2 double gutters that make up the difference from the 50.06% when you only count open ended straights

Quote

07-31-2014 , 04:02 AM

#1309

GamblinRick

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 171

It seems in the interest of making sure you are ~100 percent accurate with your site, OESD should be either recalculated, or renamed to 8OSD, so that you don't have a ~1 percent error, even though it's been that way for ~7 years.

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07-31-2014 , 05:42 AM

#1310

klondi

adept

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,174

Hi

When i open flopzilla it asked me to download latet version. Wich i did.

Question:

Do i need to uninstall the old version before i upgrade, or can i just install the new one ?

Quote

07-31-2014 , 07:01 AM

#1311

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,353

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rep

Yes, Flopzilla indeed groups double gutters under OESD given that they have 8 (or 6 if you also hold a flushdraw) outs to a straight. If you make the decision to count them as gutshots instead then you'll get slightly different results. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone considering them gutshots before but I'm sure that in writing your software you have your reasons.

Last edited by scylla; 07-31-2014 at 07:20 AM.

Quote

07-31-2014 , 07:01 AM

#1312

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,353

Quote:

Originally Posted by klondi

Hi

When i open flopzilla it asked me to download latet version. Wich i did.

Question:

Do i need to uninstall the old version before i upgrade, or can i just install the new one ?

You can just install the new version.
It can be downloaded here: http://www.flopzilla.com/download.html

Quote

08-12-2014 , 04:17 AM

#1313

polishukd

enthusiast

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 94

Hi scylla,

is it possible to "invert" ranges? Say I have an openraising range, I enter the flop and setting the range that I'd like to cbet. Now I have to deal with checking range. And it would be really convenient if I could set a delete filter for all currently filtered hands with a single click. Is there such a possibility?

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08-12-2014 , 07:29 PM

#1314

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,353

Quote:

Originally Posted by polishukd

Not at this point no, but I'll see if I can add this in the future.

Quote

08-12-2014 , 08:04 PM

#1315

polishukd

enthusiast

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 94

Thank you

Quote

08-13-2014 , 10:41 PM

#1316

Summoner500

adept

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 968

can flopzilla count second overpair chance on unknown flops?

Quote

08-14-2014 , 05:12 AM

#1317

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,353

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summoner500

can flopzilla count second overpair chance on unknown flops?

Could you be a bit more specific by what you mean with "second overpair chance".

Quote

08-14-2014 , 07:22 AM

#1318

Summoner500

adept

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 968

Quote:

Originally Posted by scylla

Could you be a bit more specific by what you mean with "second overpair chance".

i see a stat which say pp below tp , this could be 66 on 89A board or 66 on 24A board , i want to see how often i have the second , how often my pp is above middle pair but below tp.

Quote

08-14-2014 , 02:37 PM

#1319

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,353

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summoner500

i see a stat which say pp below tp , this could be 66 on 89A board or 66 on 24A board , i want to see how often i have the second , how often my pp is above middle pair but below tp.

No, that's what the stat means: "pp is above middle pair but below tp"

Quote

08-19-2014 , 11:56 AM

#1320

BetStack

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 172

Based on image below... is it possible to filter combos to a specific percentage?

Weak Pair is 53% and Ace High is 81%

Is it possible to filter combos which are 60%, 65% and 70%?

Basically, what Ace high combos filter from the range

Quote

08-19-2014 , 12:41 PM

#1321

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,353

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetStack

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean.

Quote

08-19-2014 , 07:27 PM

#1322

BetStack

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 172

Quote:

Originally Posted by scylla

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean.

In the image the cumulative stats for straight + set + ... + ace high total themselves to be 81.3 percent and the grid visualizes them in bright pink to the left.

Is it possible to visualize what combinations of ace-high get removed when the sum goes from 81.3% to 70% or 65% or 60%?

I know this is a really detail/obscure question but thought I'd ask.

Does that make sense?

Feature request?

Quote

08-20-2014 , 06:49 AM

#1323

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,353

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetStack

Ok, I'll look into it.

Quote

08-20-2014 , 01:11 PM

#1324

4-Star General

adept

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,012

I'm trying to study a spot, where Hero raises, Fish calls and reg squeezes.
I'd like to see how their ranges hit the flop, given my holding.
Is it possible in some way? I'm more than ok to see how often my hand is best given 2 ranges...

Quote

08-21-2014 , 07:04 AM

#1325

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,353

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4-Star General

Well, CardRunnersEV is actually probably better suited for that.
See below for a savefile (import with Ctrl+I).
Compute with F7.

Code:

[CardRunnersEV v2.9.5]
[This text block contains a savefile for CardRunnersEV]
[Use Ctrl+I to import into CardRunnersEV]
[www.cardrunnersev.com]
[Dq2A&WsT.s@tXtQ?AON8$Cw!pEsFQC4HJ8xv4KLl-Ku@KFO7I8@PvwWnE0htKd63RQ94uI]
[iMK=RP*(Nnb9-)y+R=5Vmnm*m#4vojMd4=Ne*NTZPlzZP2Wz8dOIxpG0UkDFI8aFdz4CMN]
[.zGhThUUFXMwM5GUKlQ7Pn2YNVAA#CnzU6hKJUQo0G2dCaVQ$_-ZNj_BFPMdCk_YlTXD69]
[Wzr6QXAZTU7oGe2?o84OTE5EY5vTq55DEdKdmce-E0_-rucX&NRtX.x.INmFfxlQ_t5bP@]
[NCvg2Qo_.9mm@qaV@f1y?IiU442XV?qAy1xss3gvvX-CdL72zEuvlwWX.c7g9f2yGKWVvF]
[KQCS.IV$X4qyApK9uO!wQMuyxoAoh+N2?q$dvHbwfEqxzHvAsxAhwYUhlmOPNPJSr@BOIN]
[cNILnm.0s4eWn.?Yb3jpeTvUGfQGEyWW1pmO+P3ngycOz1.XfmZ@M-OnP8p_HEMt&Yh!p+]
[Dk@b_YiQ5LiAn+UdtvSow43bY5u-dYBa&cA2LKYg9qhuP896fF7gDgDlPotPbW.MszbK@.]
[,dKbKbaSb,-sjBO&7TLvwFYwtBcg4cBg?uCjI6saUbwGS1sXVdkfwl9NZeHHGJ&511B.6i]
[0IN#XJxT#@4E&SLGEv&d5DIMW#MQMs@#Fz77YYNuPmc-Il8sFEP@l+eI-OGg0WdPFsyFS.]
[cp3Ts73#HL0S#.x4uW5Zwz@39BM-NHfZOyza-KZHVxveVoSe03e+DnKZVtPsSBwY+V-9w!]
[euRaoIEPE!mTIp5Rup.lL1b3+V+Cbe+I7#Ov61$eVeVM09YOenJrMsH+gdb7ntMO1y4vsx]
[vkW6$j-6UA!RAWtRz8QZ!v.ro$uE7pCpwJrTYF2qz!YwAY+UBjI6PaEEPl!d3-W?wY&FXm]
[LuP9UVzj?$fTmWjBeLT2JRPFMVsvwU-xQJUDLLS4YaZnTcgZIhQUBq8ML1YO21CHdvBiK&]
[pgDq$>t!3dG_RA$LdV@Fyv5qR00qN0E+ymS4xP.jR#SMWB3f@aubMCDKeJ5BEK&kF6O4L7]
[dZfP&oHD9_@cnzI_28rHUc0#?gWlbS738bu$soiAz!Xq$cjN6C1rqX_Rr760h2aORKK!lW]
[xjr_AlivR&ubPcH0_iZ?eVZV99FSxVgQ6z&VJVnK+7QvNoU7bmk2S-MOFm6?L83l6#MjQO]
[2hYccqTm4@,DhrBD43,M3bw+pFASFQV!zXY-D.7PwD9B30sn80pN3v_kVUKeSo4#b&bc&O]
[#@UNZgURUvUYMe7?oBy_4jd7zmxZ_Uy$9C+s5p#C$V6O2sO.Uiogux44$oU$kvBbe&$ff2]
[VMVV7E4GSBmn.xxW9JQLSl3tG48f@Q9hA_#MAH62CcUW+U5M#a1ZLHzBCbT&Qd+5wnt4ia]
[svGQ?uE-WI7y?cDKhMCnEQzcDvz5KXkivpNdN!T!NNNyLF.YJi-Glwz7zK&pz4bZvmaXi2]
[EQ_U7W2TCb!@6h.Y$pI.52tHkSxJxh1eRgHZFhk@Z]

However, you may just as well just look at the villains's ranges separately in Flopzilla.
The card removal effect is really small anyhow.
See the savefile for Flopzilla below for SB's range (import with Ctrl+I):

Code:

[Flopzilla v1.6.8]
[Use Ctrl+I to import into Flopzilla]
[www.flopzilla.com ]
[zbD2TKarAlGPamOlEdG6z+k+7ffO6ZjIoaJt6HFpLIK4xYqop4]
[OUv4GuYs9soO2Vh+RfD1e5IfHI3OkIVjI43Qekuph33ZeUr1Qk]
[cOSqrkaYQAtWQJXdv267aSKW1ZyTLd8ytSzKOrVfToSoKIyEK+]
[iIXq0VEwrJLQhCb0EHXkkXOr9bLMlWNbw9C42ARh9sy51OErAY]
[1qqDfNQVTrc5Hx1nMKF6VGkdn0ijThwqjIbLRUzFUfsx9RlCsh]
[vDMWkf]

As you can see, Flopzilla's percentages where the third player is not included are pretty much the same.

Last edited by scylla; 08-21-2014 at 07:11 AM.

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