Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Commercial Software Discussion of commercial gambling-related / poker software & commercial graphics modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-30-2014, 07:35 AM   #1301
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: Flopzilla

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rep View Post
Hi,
My friend asked me how often JT suited hit a flop. We defined hitting as any pair (or better), any flush or flush draw, and any straight or straight draw.
we used a combinatorial approach, starting with pairs, adding flushes and flush draws, then added straights and straight draws, accounting for duplication. including gutshots, we lined up within rounding of your program (which is good, since we were using it as a double check)

pairs, us 32.43%, you 32.4%
adding flushes and draws, us 42.53%, you 42.5%
adding straights and draws, us 62.37%, you 62.4%

but then when we made the requirement open ended straight draws and no gutshots, we have a discrepancy. We have the same numbers as you right up until we add the OESD to the range.

we get 50.06% and you have 50.6% given that my approach was unchanged and I have checked it a few times, I was wondering if this was possibly an error of some kind (possibly display, duplication or something else?)

Thanks for your time
I'm sorry, but I can't even reproduce the 32.4% number. Other than that, it's just really not possible for me to assist you in debugging your code; support is not intended for that.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 07:38 AM   #1302
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: Flopzilla

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Haywood View Post
Thanks.

And if it's not too involved to explain, what is the underlying issue? Several other programs present this annoyance.
It's just that when you not run software as admin all sorts of issues come up. It's a mixed bag; not just one single issue. It just saves an enormous amount of trouble in providing support if you just require that people run as admin.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 09:59 AM   #1303
Nyul86
grinder
 
Nyul86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: eastern Europe
Posts: 524
Re: Flopzilla

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
You can just set custom filters for specific hands.
For that, right-click the stat and set individual filters as you see fit.

For more on Flopzilla's filter system, please watch the videos "Video 1: The basics" and "Video 2: The filter system" here: http://www.flopzilla.com/video.html
I know this but it's quite annoying to do it manually as I use this filter quite frequently.
Nyul86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 01:36 PM   #1304
GamblinRick
centurion
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 167
Re: Flopzilla

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
I'm sorry, but I can't even reproduce the 32.4% number. Other than that, it's just really not possible for me to assist you in debugging your code; support is not intended for that.
I think he was saying he thought you had an error in your code since he got the same numbers as your program for every aspect other than the open ended straight draws.
GamblinRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 03:56 PM   #1305
Rep
stranger
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8
Re: Flopzilla

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
I'm sorry, but I can't even reproduce the 32.4% number. Other than that, it's just really not possible for me to assist you in debugging your code; support is not intended for that.
I was saying that your software may have a bug. I wasn't asking for help with my code. I am simply solving the problem manually.
Rep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 04:48 PM   #1306
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: Flopzilla

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyul86 View Post
I know this but it's quite annoying to do it manually as I use this filter quite frequently.
Ok, I'll see if I can think of some sort of feature to make this faster.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 04:59 PM   #1307
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: Flopzilla

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rep View Post
I was saying that your software may have a bug. I wasn't asking for help with my code. I am simply solving the problem manually.
Ok, well, I've checked with CardRunnersEV, which gives the same result. CardRunnersEV has a different engine, so this would pretty much only leave the possiblity that the 8 out straight draw stat is not correctly evaluated (the evaluation fuctions áre the same as in Flopzilla). Over the past ~7 years I have checked all evaluation functions several times with all kinds of different approaches. In fact, I just did so again about an hour ago. Also, if the OESD stat would be off by ~1% there's a ~100% chance that someone would have noticed over the past ~7 years. Finally, the engine gives the exact same results that have been used in literature for years upon years. So all in all, I don't really see how this could be a bug.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 08:37 PM   #1308
Rep
stranger
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8
Re: Flopzilla

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
Ok, well, I've checked with CardRunnersEV, which gives the same result. CardRunnersEV has a different engine, so this would pretty much only leave the possiblity that the 8 out straight draw stat is not correctly evaluated (the evaluation fuctions áre the same as in Flopzilla). Over the past ~7 years I have checked all evaluation functions several times with all kinds of different approaches. In fact, I just did so again about an hour ago. Also, if the OESD stat would be off by ~1% there's a ~100% chance that someone would have noticed over the past ~7 years. Finally, the engine gives the exact same results that have been used in literature for years upon years. So all in all, I don't really see how this could be a bug.
It seems the issue is the with headings and what they actually mean. If you count all 8 card straight draws as open ended straight draws (OESD), then the 50.60% number is right on. This hand has 2 double gutters that make up the difference from the 50.06% when you only count open ended straights
Rep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 04:02 AM   #1309
GamblinRick
centurion
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 167
Re: Flopzilla

It seems in the interest of making sure you are ~100 percent accurate with your site, OESD should be either recalculated, or renamed to 8OSD, so that you don't have a ~1 percent error, even though it's been that way for ~7 years.
GamblinRick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 05:42 AM   #1310
klondi
adept
 
klondi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,174
Re: Flopzilla

Hi

When i open flopzilla it asked me to download latet version. Wich i did.

Question:

Do i need to uninstall the old version before i upgrade, or can i just install the new one ?
klondi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 07:01 AM   #1311
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: Flopzilla

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rep View Post
It seems the issue is the with headings and what they actually mean. If you count all 8 card straight draws as open ended straight draws (OESD), then the 50.60% number is right on. This hand has 2 double gutters that make up the difference from the 50.06% when you only count open ended straights
Yes, Flopzilla indeed groups double gutters under OESD given that they have 8 (or 6 if you also hold a flushdraw) outs to a straight. If you make the decision to count them as gutshots instead then you'll get slightly different results. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone considering them gutshots before but I'm sure that in writing your software you have your reasons.

Last edited by scylla; 07-31-2014 at 07:20 AM.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 07:01 AM   #1312
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: Flopzilla

Quote:
Originally Posted by klondi View Post
Hi

When i open flopzilla it asked me to download latet version. Wich i did.

Question:

Do i need to uninstall the old version before i upgrade, or can i just install the new one ?
You can just install the new version.
It can be downloaded here: http://www.flopzilla.com/download.html
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2014, 04:17 AM   #1313
polishukd
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 93
Re: Flopzilla

Hi scylla,

is it possible to "invert" ranges? Say I have an openraising range, I enter the flop and setting the range that I'd like to cbet. Now I have to deal with checking range. And it would be really convenient if I could set a delete filter for all currently filtered hands with a single click. Is there such a possibility?
polishukd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2014, 07:29 PM   #1314
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: Flopzilla

Quote:
Originally Posted by polishukd View Post
Hi scylla,

is it possible to "invert" ranges? Say I have an openraising range, I enter the flop and setting the range that I'd like to cbet. Now I have to deal with checking range. And it would be really convenient if I could set a delete filter for all currently filtered hands with a single click. Is there such a possibility?
Not at this point no, but I'll see if I can add this in the future.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2014, 08:04 PM   #1315
polishukd
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 93
Re: Flopzilla

Thank you
polishukd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2014, 10:41 PM   #1316
Summoner500
adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 968
Re: Flopzilla

can flopzilla count second overpair chance on unknown flops?
Summoner500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2014, 05:12 AM   #1317
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: Flopzilla

Quote:
Originally Posted by Summoner500 View Post
can flopzilla count second overpair chance on unknown flops?
Could you be a bit more specific by what you mean with "second overpair chance".
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2014, 07:22 AM   #1318
Summoner500
adept
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 968
Re: Flopzilla

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
Could you be a bit more specific by what you mean with "second overpair chance".
i see a stat which say pp below tp , this could be 66 on 89A board or 66 on 24A board , i want to see how often i have the second , how often my pp is above middle pair but below tp.
Summoner500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2014, 02:37 PM   #1319
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: Flopzilla

Quote:
Originally Posted by Summoner500 View Post
i see a stat which say pp below tp , this could be 66 on 89A board or 66 on 24A board , i want to see how often i have the second , how often my pp is above middle pair but below tp.
No, that's what the stat means: "pp is above middle pair but below tp"
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2014, 11:56 AM   #1320
BetStack
centurion
 
BetStack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Denver, CO - LV
Posts: 169
Re: Flopzilla

Based on image below... is it possible to filter combos to a specific percentage?

Weak Pair is 53% and Ace High is 81%

Is it possible to filter combos which are 60%, 65% and 70%?

Basically, what Ace high combos filter from the range
BetStack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2014, 12:41 PM   #1321
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: Flopzilla

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetStack View Post
Based on image below... is it possible to filter combos to a specific percentage?

Weak Pair is 53% and Ace High is 81%

Is it possible to filter combos which are 60%, 65% and 70%?

Basically, what Ace high combos filter from the range
I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2014, 07:27 PM   #1322
BetStack
centurion
 
BetStack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Denver, CO - LV
Posts: 169
Re: Flopzilla

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean.
In the image the cumulative stats for straight + set + ... + ace high total themselves to be 81.3 percent and the grid visualizes them in bright pink to the left.

Is it possible to visualize what combinations of ace-high get removed when the sum goes from 81.3% to 70% or 65% or 60%?

I know this is a really detail/obscure question but thought I'd ask.

Does that make sense?

Feature request?
BetStack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2014, 06:49 AM   #1323
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: Flopzilla

Quote:
Originally Posted by BetStack View Post
In the image the cumulative stats for straight + set + ... + ace high total themselves to be 81.3 percent and the grid visualizes them in bright pink to the left.

Is it possible to visualize what combinations of ace-high get removed when the sum goes from 81.3% to 70% or 65% or 60%?

I know this is a really detail/obscure question but thought I'd ask.

Does that make sense?

Feature request?
Ok, I'll look into it.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2014, 01:11 PM   #1324
4-Star General
adept
 
4-Star General's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,012
Re: Flopzilla

I'm trying to study a spot, where Hero raises, Fish calls and reg squeezes.
I'd like to see how their ranges hit the flop, given my holding.
Is it possible in some way? I'm more than ok to see how often my hand is best given 2 ranges...
4-Star General is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2014, 07:04 AM   #1325
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: Flopzilla

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4-Star General View Post
I'm trying to study a spot, where Hero raises, Fish calls and reg squeezes.
I'd like to see how their ranges hit the flop, given my holding.
Is it possible in some way? I'm more than ok to see how often my hand is best given 2 ranges...
Well, CardRunnersEV is actually probably better suited for that.
See below for a savefile (import with Ctrl+I).
Compute with F7.

Code:
[CardRunnersEV v2.9.5]
[This text block contains a savefile for CardRunnersEV]
[Use Ctrl+I to import into CardRunnersEV]
[www.cardrunnersev.com]
[Dq2A&WsT.s@tXtQ?AON8$Cw!pEsFQC4HJ8xv4KLl-Ku@KFO7I8@PvwWnE0htKd63RQ94uI]
[iMK=RP*(Nnb9-)y+R=5Vmnm*m#4vojMd4=Ne*NTZPlzZP2Wz8dOIxpG0UkDFI8aFdz4CMN]
[.zGhThUUFXMwM5GUKlQ7Pn2YNVAA#CnzU6hKJUQo0G2dCaVQ$_-ZNj_BFPMdCk_YlTXD69]
[Wzr6QXAZTU7oGe2?o84OTE5EY5vTq55DEdKdmce-E0_-rucX&NRtX.x.INmFfxlQ_t5bP@]
[NCvg2Qo_.9mm@qaV@f1y?IiU442XV?qAy1xss3gvvX-CdL72zEuvlwWX.c7g9f2yGKWVvF]
[KQCS.IV$X4qyApK9uO!wQMuyxoAoh+N2?q$dvHbwfEqxzHvAsxAhwYUhlmOPNPJSr@BOIN]
[cNILnm.0s4eWn.?Yb3jpeTvUGfQGEyWW1pmO+P3ngycOz1.XfmZ@M-OnP8p_HEMt&Yh!p+]
[Dk@b_YiQ5LiAn+UdtvSow43bY5u-dYBa&cA2LKYg9qhuP896fF7gDgDlPotPbW.MszbK@.]
[,dKbKbaSb,-sjBO&7TLvwFYwtBcg4cBg?uCjI6saUbwGS1sXVdkfwl9NZeHHGJ&511B.6i]
[0IN#XJxT#@4E&SLGEv&d5DIMW#MQMs@#Fz77YYNuPmc-Il8sFEP@l+eI-OGg0WdPFsyFS.]
[cp3Ts73#HL0S#.x4uW5Zwz@39BM-NHfZOyza-KZHVxveVoSe03e+DnKZVtPsSBwY+V-9w!]
[euRaoIEPE!mTIp5Rup.lL1b3+V+Cbe+I7#Ov61$eVeVM09YOenJrMsH+gdb7ntMO1y4vsx]
[vkW6$j-6UA!RAWtRz8QZ!v.ro$uE7pCpwJrTYF2qz!YwAY+UBjI6PaEEPl!d3-W?wY&FXm]
[LuP9UVzj?$fTmWjBeLT2JRPFMVsvwU-xQJUDLLS4YaZnTcgZIhQUBq8ML1YO21CHdvBiK&]
[pgDq$>t!3dG_RA$LdV@Fyv5qR00qN0E+ymS4xP.jR#SMWB3f@aubMCDKeJ5BEK&kF6O4L7]
[dZfP&oHD9_@cnzI_28rHUc0#?gWlbS738bu$soiAz!Xq$cjN6C1rqX_Rr760h2aORKK!lW]
[xjr_AlivR&ubPcH0_iZ?eVZV99FSxVgQ6z&VJVnK+7QvNoU7bmk2S-MOFm6?L83l6#MjQO]
[2hYccqTm4@,DhrBD43,M3bw+pFASFQV!zXY-D.7PwD9B30sn80pN3v_kVUKeSo4#b&bc&O]
[#@UNZgURUvUYMe7?oBy_4jd7zmxZ_Uy$9C+s5p#C$V6O2sO.Uiogux44$oU$kvBbe&$ff2]
[VMVV7E4GSBmn.xxW9JQLSl3tG48f@Q9hA_#MAH62CcUW+U5M#a1ZLHzBCbT&Qd+5wnt4ia]
[svGQ?uE-WI7y?cDKhMCnEQzcDvz5KXkivpNdN!T!NNNyLF.YJi-Glwz7zK&pz4bZvmaXi2]
[EQ_U7W2TCb!@6h.Y$pI.52tHkSxJxh1eRgHZFhk@Z]
However, you may just as well just look at the villains's ranges separately in Flopzilla.
The card removal effect is really small anyhow.
See the savefile for Flopzilla below for SB's range (import with Ctrl+I):

Code:
[Flopzilla v1.6.8]
[Use Ctrl+I to import into Flopzilla]
[www.flopzilla.com ]
[zbD2TKarAlGPamOlEdG6z+k+7ffO6ZjIoaJt6HFpLIK4xYqop4]
[OUv4GuYs9soO2Vh+RfD1e5IfHI3OkIVjI43Qekuph33ZeUr1Qk]
[cOSqrkaYQAtWQJXdv267aSKW1ZyTLd8ytSzKOrVfToSoKIyEK+]
[iIXq0VEwrJLQhCb0EHXkkXOr9bLMlWNbw9C42ARh9sy51OErAY]
[1qqDfNQVTrc5Hx1nMKF6VGkdn0ijThwqjIbLRUzFUfsx9RlCsh]
[vDMWkf]
As you can see, Flopzilla's percentages where the third player is not included are pretty much the same.

Last edited by scylla; 08-21-2014 at 07:11 AM.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online