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GTO+/CardRunnersEV? GTO+/CardRunnersEV?

07-09-2012 , 01:51 PM
Now CREV says "This beta is no longer available, please go to website for the latest version"
But I don't see any newer version, what should I do?
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
07-09-2012 , 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkyyy
Now CREV says "This beta is no longer available, please go to website for the latest version"
But I don't see any newer version, what should I do?
Please download, unzip and run the .exe in this file: http://www.crevfiles.com/crev/CREVfix.rar
It should fix that issue.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
07-09-2012 , 03:46 PM
Thanks it works now.

I wanted to make everything better than one pair combos out of his calling range. So I put a condition that for calling you can at most have an overpair.
Here is a pic. It did not work. What am I doing wrong?

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07-09-2012 , 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkyyy
Oh thanks.

Also how come Strategy EV works only SB vs BB? On your site you said that it is the only relevant case, how come? To me it seems relevant pretty much in every case.
It's mostly just interesting to evaluate the EV of a strategy when you're playing heads-up since thát situation will come up every other hand. Doing the same for, let's say, a three handed spot is far less interesting:
- It's not interesting from the button's point of view, since he's not posting, meaning that his EV is equal to his strategy EV. So strategy EV would add nothing for him.
- Even íf you wanted to research this from sb's or bb's point of view, every single spot would be a rare one. Button does not always raise. Nor does his raise size need to be fixed. You'd have to do separate research for every raise size.
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07-09-2012 , 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkyyy
Thanks it works now.

I wanted to make everything better than one pair combos out of his calling range. So I put a condition that for calling you can at most have an overpair.
Here is a pic. It did not work. What am I doing wrong?

First of all, you should put the raise action on top.
Currently it's treated last, even after "fold all hands".
Because of that it's never reached.
The software treats conditions consequetively, starting on top and moving down until it finds on that's TRUE.

To put the raise action on top, left-click it and then click on the call action.
The raise action will now switch positions.

After that, please delete the <=overpair condition from the call action (select it by clicking it and then press Del).

Having done that, the tree should do what you wanted it to do.




Other than that, let's say that you want to remove a hand from a range, like you tried to do with the <=overpair condition, what you should actually do is add that range on top of the action but give it a weight of 0%.
For example, let's say that in your tree we want to raise with >=2p ... but if we hold a set we want to slowplay and just call.
In order to achieve that, add a set to the raise action, put it on top (again, to switch conditions, click one and then the other) and give it a weight of 0%.
To give a condition a weight of 0%, you can do that in the postflop menu; or you can right-click it and set the 0% weight in the dialog that comes up.

Last edited by scylla; 07-09-2012 at 04:03 PM.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
07-09-2012 , 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
It's mostly just interesting to evaluate the EV of a strategy when you're playing heads-up since thát situation will come up every other hand. Doing the same for, let's say, a three handed spot is far less interesting:
- It's not interesting from the button's point of view, since he's not posting, meaning that his EV is equal to his strategy EV. So strategy EV would add nothing for him.
- Even íf you wanted to research this from sb's or bb's point of view, every single spot would be a rare one. Button does not always raise. Nor does his raise size need to be fixed. You'd have to do separate research for every raise size.
Yeh your right now I get what you mean, I did not express myself clearly and rather got caught up in the word 'strategy'. I actually meant the EV of the whole hand. Maybe it is not that important but it would be nice to see somewhere that playing this way I make X amount of $ from the whole hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
First of all, you should put the raise action on top.
Currently it's treated last, even after "fold all hands".
Because of that it's never reached.
The software treats conditions consequetively, starting on top and moving down until it finds on that's TRUE.

To put the raise action on top, left-click it and then click on the call action.
The raise action will now switch positions.

After that, please delete the <=overpair condition from the call action (select it by clicking it and then press Del).

Having done that, the tree should do what you wanted it to do.




Other than that, let's say that you want to remove a hand from a range, like you tried to do with the <=overpair condition, what you should actually do is add that range on top of the action but give it a weight of 0%.
For example, let's say that in your tree we want to raise with >=2p ... but if we hold a set we want to slowplay and just call.
In order to achieve that, add a set to the raise action, put it on top (again, to switch conditions, click one and then the other) and give it a weight of 0%.
To give a condition a weight of 0%, you can do that in the postflop menu; or you can right-click it and set the 0% weight in the dialog that comes up.
Thanks works fine now
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
07-10-2012 , 09:54 AM
For some reason I get different equities for the same hand. Why?
I checked the ranges they are the same! Look at pre and flop equities they are all screwed up

GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
07-10-2012 , 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkyyy
For some reason I get different equities for the same hand. Why?
I checked the ranges they are the same! Look at pre and flop equities they are all screwed up

The turn is different.
If you enter a turn, it will be used in the EV and equity calculations.
If you want the equites for the flop, you'll need to leave the turn blank.

Last edited by scylla; 07-10-2012 at 10:09 AM.
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07-10-2012 , 12:41 PM
Oh yes thanks sorry for asking such dumb questions.

Also is there an option to see how much I make (bb/USD?) per hand if I use a certain strategy.
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07-10-2012 , 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkyyy
Oh yes thanks sorry for asking such dumb questions.

Also is there an option to see how much I make (bb/USD?) per hand if I use a certain strategy.
That would be the EV of the very first node of a player in the decision tree.
This doés require that you have entered his strategy for all of his starting hands.
Also, it won't work if you've entered the flop, since you're not getting the same flop every hand.

If you're talking about the EV prior to posting the blinds, turn on "Settings->Display strategy EV sb vs bb". This will only work if the board is unknown and if it's sb vs bb (as we discussed previously).
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
07-10-2012 , 01:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
That would be the EV of the very first node of a player in the decision tree.
This doés require that you have entered his strategy for all of his starting hands.
Also, it won't work if you've entered the flop, since you're not getting the same flop every hand.

If you're talking about the EV prior to posting the blinds, turn on "Settings->Display strategy EV sb vs bb". This will only work if the board is unknown and if it's sb vs bb (as we discussed previously).
But that is impossible to do because the decision vary on the board, on his counter actions, ex: raise etc. The tree would end up having like 500 branches on the tree.

For instance with the Q8o hand I wanted to know how profitable is it to barrel a second pair for instance on a draw heavy board.

I mean I just don't understand.

And what is this EV thing here it clearly does not correspond with USD since both BTN and BB are +EV? We can't be both making money right



I mean I am sorry but I just don't understand, I tried watching your instruction videos but they are more about explaining what each feature does.
Why there can not be a feature telling me how much I am making ignoring preflop.This way I have no idea whether this move is better than some other. I am just adding up the EV of a flop/turn/river decision and then deciding upon whatever is higher
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
07-10-2012 , 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkyyy
But that is impossible to do because the decision vary on the board, on his counter actions, ex: raise etc. The tree would end up having like 500 branches on the tree.

For instance with the Q8o hand I wanted to know how profitable is it to barrel a second pair for instance on a draw heavy board.
I misunderstood your question (I thought you meant the EV of an entire strategy, starting from the first decision in a hand).
If you're trying to figure out the EV of the decision to double-barrel, then just look at the EV of the decision where you're making the first barrel. After all, thát is where you're making the decision to double-barrel. In this case it's $2.62, which is very profitable. You're not only winning the entire $2.5 pot, but you're also enticing villain to put in 0.12 more.

Whenever you're wondering which node to look at, just ask yourself, "at what node am I making the decision that I'm trying to evaluate?".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkyyy
And what is this EV thing here it clearly does not correspond with USD since both BTN and BB are +EV? We can't be both making money right
Actually, at any decision point the EV of you and villain will add up to exactly the pot (provided rake is 0%). For example, on the turn, you'll notice that 4.74+1.46=6.2, which is exactly the pot at BB's decision. This is because thát is what the players are fighting over. Who gets which share of the pot? As a result, the EVs of the players will usually be greater than 0.

The exact math gets a bit more complex when multiple branches are involved. In that case you'd need to do some work in order to get the numbers to add up to the size of the pot. For example, for the decision on the flop where button either raises, calls or folds, there's 3 possible outcomes for BB, which you need to consider according to their weight. In 2.43% of the cases BB folds and wins $0. In 56.7% of the cases BB will get into a 4.74 spot and in 40.9% of the cases button folds and BB wins the 4.35 pot. That makes for a weighed total of 2.43%*0+56.7%*4.74+40.9%*4.35=4.47. And since button's ev is -0.12 that makes the total 4.47-0.12=$4.35, which is ... the pot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkyyy
I mean I am sorry but I just don't understand, I tried watching your instruction videos but they are more about explaining what each feature does.
I'll be making a whole bunch of small vids this month and next month. The ones this month will be about scripting and unexploitable shoving. The ones next month will deal with all other aspects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkyyy
Why there can not be a feature telling me how much I am making ignoring preflop.This way I have no idea whether this move is better than some other. I am just adding up the EV of a flop/turn/river decision and then deciding upon whatever is higher
That's just the EV field under the decision node. You need to look at that óne decision where you're deciding to double-barrel. That's the EV you should be looking at. In this case it's $2.62.


PS: Fwiw, I've just looked over your tree and it looks great to me. At the turn, after villain raises to 8.5 you might want to include a call in case you have >=2p; and at the river, villain míght bluff if he holds a high-card (but heck, I don't know villain). But the tree is perfectly legit.

Last edited by scylla; 07-10-2012 at 01:48 PM.
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07-11-2012 , 05:08 AM
Thanks

How to select multiple cards on for example turn? Once I do click on more than one card the "done" button gets grey and cannot be clicked
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07-11-2012 , 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparkyyy
Thanks

How to select multiple cards on for example turn? Once I do click on more than one card the "done" button gets grey and cannot be clicked
You can either select:
- no cards
- one card
- every card

In the option you're now trying to work with you'll need to assign each card to a group. In that manner you can, for example, subdivide possible turn hands into overcards, flushcards and duds.

When assiging cards to a group you can toggle between groups with the green toggle buttons. Use the name button to assign a name to each group. Cards that have alreade been assigned to a group will be displayed in yellow.

After pressing done you can toggle between the different groups with the green toggle buttons to the left/right of the turn button.




If, as I understand it, you're interested in only selecting a couple of cards and just ignore the other ones, then I'd recommend dividing them into two groups and deleting the second group:
- Select the cards you're interested in
- Give a name to that group
- Toggle to the second group
- Press the "Select all remaining" button to assign everyting else to group 2.
- Press done to return to the screen.
- Toggle to group 2.
- Set a delete action there (click the decision node to get to the dialog that offers the delete action).

Now you'll only be dealing with the cards you were looking for.

I've made an example file for you, which you can download here (it requires v2.8.2):
www.crevfiles.com/tmp/groups.stx

Last edited by scylla; 07-11-2012 at 08:19 AM.
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07-11-2012 , 08:34 AM
The new 2.8.2 beta ist not working for me.
It says, that i need the "mfc100.dll", maybe you forgot to include the Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 Redistributable Package with the installer.

The old 2.8.1 beta worked fine for me.
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07-11-2012 , 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gully
The new 2.8.2 beta ist not working for me.
It says, that i need the "mfc100.dll", maybe you forgot to include the Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 Redistributable Package with the installer.

The old 2.8.1 beta worked fine for me.
Does it say that when it's installing or when you try to run the software?
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07-11-2012 , 08:57 AM
I get this error when i try to run the software.
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07-11-2012 , 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gully
I get this error when i try to run the software.
Ok, got it.
Please uninstall for now, I'll repost shortly.
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07-11-2012 , 09:28 AM
Ok, please try again!
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07-11-2012 , 09:55 AM
It works again. Thank you
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07-14-2012 , 12:00 AM
Hi I just got the new beta and I was wondering how do you add a condition to decision right now it says edit condition and I'm trying to add.
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07-14-2012 , 12:21 AM
Nevermind I realized you put it all in one range and edit the weights with the numbers
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07-14-2012 , 04:50 AM
Scripting feature seems pretty exciting.
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07-22-2012 , 09:58 AM
Is there any way to determine best 3bet range against an opponent ? How ?
Let say his 3bet range is X%, foldto3bet is X%, call3bet is x% and 4bet is X%.
X is not equal each other.

Why card rank are different from those from PokerStove ?
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
07-22-2012 , 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KohINoor
Is there any way to determine best 3bet range against an opponent ? How ?
Let say his 3bet range is X%, foldto3bet is X%, call3bet is x% and 4bet is X%.
X is not equal each other.
Could you mail a savefile of this situation to support please?
I always like to make sure we're talking about the same thing before I give an answer.
It prevents a lot of confusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KohINoor
Why card rank are different from those from PokerStove ?
The rankings are geared towards NL.
The PokerStove ranges seem more suitable for LHE.
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