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Old 06-01-2020, 04:59 AM   #9951
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bella Ciao View Post
so just to be sure, i can't run a database and simply pull a tree out from there with multiple bet sizes on turn and river? seems to defeat one of the major purposes of running a database as i can't analyse past the flop?

thanks
Yes, you can.
But you need to build that database first.
Just editing a tree will not change the trees in your database.

So you need to:
1) Build the tree that you want to use
2) Delete your database
3) Build a new database from the tree that you created

Now all the trees in the database will be copies from your edited tree.
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Old 06-01-2020, 10:47 AM   #9952
eduargentina
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Re: CardRunnersEV

HI!
a) Why with a basic tree with few lines the EV in dispute is higher?

b) why OOP in the first example loses 4.7% but IP gains only 1.83%? What one loses should be earned by the other, right?

Basic model. Cbet flop 50% or check. Turn and River 70% or check for IP and OOP.

"Complex model" Cbet flop 33/75 or check. Turn 50/75 or check (OOP probe 75 and 150). River 33/75/150 or check (OOP probe 75 and 150)


http://prntscr.com/srqyws
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Old 06-01-2020, 11:37 AM   #9953
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by eduargentina View Post
HI!
a) Why with a basic tree with few lines the EV in dispute is higher?

b) why OOP in the first example loses 4.7% but IP gains only 1.83%? What one loses should be earned by the other, right?

Basic model. Cbet flop 50% or check. Turn and River 70% or check for IP and OOP.

"Complex model" Cbet flop 33/75 or check. Turn 50/75 or check (OOP probe 75 and 150). River 33/75/150 or check (OOP probe 75 and 150)


http://prntscr.com/srqyws
If rake is 0%, then whatever is lost by one player should be gained by the other.
If you want me to take a closer look, then please mail a savefile to support.
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Old 06-03-2020, 12:24 AM   #9954
MicroDonkYT
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Re: CardRunnersEV

I've been using play against the solution a lot. Would it be possible to directly navigate to a spot where we made a mistake in the game tree?



Like maybe be able to click the turn card directly on the left hand window of this example.

This is useful when we make a mistake and want to see what the strategy looks like.
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Old 06-03-2020, 03:25 AM   #9955
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by MicroDonkYT View Post
I've been using play against the solution a lot. Would it be possible to directly navigate to a spot where we made a mistake in the game tree?



Like maybe be able to click the turn card directly on the left hand window of this example.

This is useful when we make a mistake and want to see what the strategy looks like.
For the moment you can double-click a hand history to replay it.
But I can consider more extensive features here for future releases.
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Old 06-03-2020, 09:25 AM   #9956
Gabe16
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hi Skyla,

Iím wondering whether I can run a sim, node lock a players responses on each street and then re run the sim to see how actions on later streets effect earlier street play, is this possible?

Also Iím wondering if itís possible to have an extra tab that shows a players entire continuing range/non folding range against a bet?

Thanks man.
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Old 06-03-2020, 03:46 PM   #9957
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by Gabe16 View Post
Hi Skyla,

I’m wondering whether I can run a sim, node lock a players responses on each street and then re run the sim to see how actions on later streets effect earlier street play, is this possible?

Also I’m wondering if it’s possible to have an extra tab that shows a players entire continuing range/non folding range against a bet?

Thanks man.
Yes, for this, just use the editor to edit the decisions as you see fit.
Leave the decisions locked.
And then re-run the solver.

As for the second request, I will consider it for future releases.

Scylla
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Old 06-04-2020, 06:32 AM   #9958
Dejavudu666
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Sorry for asking simple question.
How do we compare EV difference between betting and checking for a specific hand combo I.e Kd Jh?
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Old 06-04-2020, 09:45 AM   #9959
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by Dejavudu666 View Post
Sorry for asking simple question.
How do we compare EV difference between betting and checking for a specific hand combo I.e Kd Jh?
For that, switch to the "EV" tab.
Mouse over KJo in the matrix.
The EV of the hand, and a subdivision into its actions, is displayed in the last column.

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Old 06-04-2020, 09:58 AM   #9960
Dejavudu666
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Thankyou, also I'm having trouble wirh the node lock function. I've watched your tutorial on it but when I click the lock it doesn't seem to revert strategy or at least it doesn't display on the hand matrix and also when I run the solver after node locking the overall EV isn't changing. For instance I node lock on a flop to range bet and then re-run solver and the hand matrix displays 1 size Over entire range but the EV hasn't changed?
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Old 06-04-2020, 11:08 AM   #9961
sprisedefend
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hi Scylla, can you add some more detailed of made hand columns to the report like the image below?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gm8...ew?usp=sharing
I think it helps to better distinguish what kind of made hand in each situation. I have created an excel file to list in more detail the properties of the made hand, here is the link:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/xamnam...port.xlsx/file
Thank you!
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Old 06-04-2020, 12:42 PM   #9962
Topin
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hello Scylla,

I'm currently reading Andrew Brokos new book and he illustrates some of his concepts with Piosolver results.
However, using GTO+, I found different results with the same parameters, and I wonder how this is possible.
For example IP EV on in his book is 8.85 when I find 8.66 (from initial pot of 13). This difference seems too big to me to be insignificant.

Here are the parameters used so you could let me know if something strikes your mind :
IP Range


OOP range


Starting Pot of 13 and stack of 194 :


(no donk on flop)

Flop Kd 8d 8c

We can even simplify the game tree by having IP bet 33% all his range.

But as I was saying, I find many differences with his solve, even aside from the EV difference (pure strategy in GTO+ that are mixed in Pio, etc).
How can you explain this ? Is it a mistake in the book? I unfortunately don't have Pio to compare :/

Thanks a lot
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Old 06-04-2020, 02:31 PM   #9963
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topin View Post
Hello Scylla,

I'm currently reading Andrew Brokos new book and he illustrates some of his concepts with Piosolver results.
However, using GTO+, I found different results with the same parameters, and I wonder how this is possible.
For example IP EV on in his book is 8.85 when I find 8.66 (from initial pot of 13). This difference seems too big to me to be insignificant.

Here are the parameters used so you could let me know if something strikes your mind :
IP Range


OOP range


Starting Pot of 13 and stack of 194 :


(no donk on flop)

Flop Kd 8d 8c

We can even simplify the game tree by having IP bet 33% all his range.

But as I was saying, I find many differences with his solve, even aside from the EV difference (pure strategy in GTO+ that are mixed in Pio, etc).
How can you explain this ? Is it a mistake in the book? I unfortunately don't have Pio to compare :/

Thanks a lot
The "Advanced" tree builders for GTO+ and pio will lead to similar, but slightly different trees. For that reason, a somewhat different overall EV, or different strategies, are to be expected. That being said, even if the trees were completely identical, if multiple bet sizes are used, then GTO+ and pio may still arrive at different strategies (the EV will be the same though). This is because different bet sizes perform very (very very) closely to one another in EV, and many different configurations are possible within any non-zero Nash distance.

On the other hand, GTO+'s "Basic" tree builder will build identical trees to pio's "Version 1.0" tree builder. In this case, when using these tree builders, the results will be close to identical (they may differ a bit on which hands to bluff with).

Last edited by scylla; 06-04-2020 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 06-04-2020, 02:35 PM   #9964
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprisedefend View Post
Hi Scylla, can you add some more detailed of made hand columns to the report like the image below?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gm8...ew?usp=sharing
I think it helps to better distinguish what kind of made hand in each situation. I have created an excel file to list in more detail the properties of the made hand, here is the link:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/xamnam...port.xlsx/file
Thank you!
Ok, I will consider it for future releases.
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Old 06-04-2020, 02:47 PM   #9965
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dejavudu666 View Post
Thankyou, also I'm having trouble wirh the node lock function. I've watched your tutorial on it but when I click the lock it doesn't seem to revert strategy or at least it doesn't display on the hand matrix and also when I run the solver after node locking the overall EV isn't changing. For instance I node lock on a flop to range bet and then re-run solver and the hand matrix displays 1 size Over entire range but the EV hasn't changed?
To lock+edit a decision, click on "Lock+edit decision".
After that, you can make changes to the strategy.
When in "Lock+edit decision" mode, the decision will be locked to the solver.

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Old 06-04-2020, 04:30 PM   #9966
ShowOfForce
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hello, been using PIO forever but now I'm playing around a bit with GTO+, seems to have some nice additional features.

I see when it comes to aggregate reports in database mode, we can see actions across all flops, can we continue seeing the tree across all turns from all flops also?
I want to see for example after check raising the flop (across all flops), how much it bets the turn overall. Can we do this?

Now I can't go beyond flop in this database analysis.


Thanks!
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Old 06-04-2020, 04:30 PM   #9967
Topin
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
The "Advanced" tree builders for GTO+ and pio will lead to similar, but slightly different trees. For that reason, a somewhat different overall EV, or different strategies, are to be expected. That being said, even if the trees were completely identical, if multiple bet sizes are used, then GTO+ and pio may still arrive at different strategies (the EV will be the same though). This is because different bet sizes perform very (very very) closely to one another in EV, and many different configurations are possible within any non-zero Nash distance.

On the other hand, GTO+'s "Basic" tree builder will build identical trees to pio's "Version 1.0" tree builder. In this case, when using these tree builders, the results will be close to identical (they may differ a bit on which hands to bluff with).
Thanks Scylla, perfectly answers my interrogation
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Old 06-04-2020, 09:38 PM   #9968
sprisedefend
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
Ok, I will consider it for future releases.
Hope you will do it as soon as possible. When looking at a situation with the same type of hand, it's hard for me to understand why one bet and the other check. I think it will help more people to analyze in depth a kind of made hand. Thank you for the reply!
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Old 06-05-2020, 02:32 AM   #9969
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShowOfForce View Post
Hello, been using PIO forever but now I'm playing around a bit with GTO+, seems to have some nice additional features.

I see when it comes to aggregate reports in database mode, we can see actions across all flops, can we continue seeing the tree across all turns from all flops also?
I want to see for example after check raising the flop (across all flops), how much it bets the turn overall. Can we do this?

Now I can't go beyond flop in this database analysis.


Thanks!
We can consider adding it, although this data would be of somewhat limited use, being an average (over all flops) of an average (over all turns).
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Old 06-05-2020, 03:53 AM   #9970
Bella Ciao
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Re: CardRunnersEV

hi scylla,

can you explain briefly when and how someone would use the rebuild tree function? all the tutorial vids on youtube i've watched so far haven't gone into that.

thanks
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Old 06-05-2020, 05:07 AM   #9971
Bella Ciao
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Re: CardRunnersEV

sorry to follow up with another q;

ran a database and started analysing one flop. i don't think i completed it with a turn and river and saved it but now that flop doesn't have a green tick arrow next to it anymore. does this mean anything? it's also missing from the database display graph of results but i can obv still find it when i hit run solver.

thanks again
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Old 06-05-2020, 05:07 AM   #9972
personalpokercoach
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hello,

I created a sim using custom settings on the flop, turn and river. I also checked the option for OOP to not donk. However, in the tree where OOP range bets flop, IP calls. OOP checks turn, IP stabs, OOP calls, on the river, OOP has still the option to donk in my sim. I know I could just remove the donk bets by OOP by editing the tree however, I have multiple sizings set of IP stabbing on the turn. That will make it hard to remove each donking spot on the river for the multiple sizings I set for IP to stab on the turn

Can you please tell me if there is a workaround for this? Thank you in advance
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Old 06-05-2020, 07:42 AM   #9973
YouBetIcall
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Re: CardRunnersEV

in build tree, option "don't donk" is doing something that is kind of misleading, what I would like to have is option don't donk unless you finised as aggressor on previous street, so if for OP last action on previous street was bet or raise, then he can "donk", otherwise not (for example is action is that OP x/r and then calls 3bet, he should not be donking on next street IMO.

You said you will consider this to be in next update but I see it's still not in last update, please consider this again
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Old 06-05-2020, 09:46 AM   #9974
mrfunnywobbl
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hi Scylla,

My CPU cooling (wraith prism) and lack of AC is a problem and I'm working on getting better cooling but can't at the moment. I'm hitting 95C temps within 1.5 mins of starting a solve. Any advice? I tried using only 10/16 threads instead of 14, same thing.

Is it possible to setup the solver to stop itself and restart itself intermittently so the temps can drop down for a few seconds?

Is there anyone in this thread or in general that may be willing to sell/swap solved database files?
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Old 06-05-2020, 11:01 AM   #9975
personalpokercoach
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfunnywobbl View Post
Hi Scylla,

My CPU cooling (wraith prism) and lack of AC is a problem and I'm working on getting better cooling but can't at the moment. I'm hitting 95C temps within 1.5 mins of starting a solve. Any advice? I tried using only 10/16 threads instead of 14, same thing.

Is it possible to setup the solver to stop itself and restart itself intermittently so the temps can drop down for a few seconds?

Is there anyone in this thread or in general that may be willing to sell/swap solved database files?

What I personally do is open the side panel of my PC case and blow a fan directly onto it. I also get around 95-98 Celsius with my RX 2600 but with the case open, I get around 89-90 Celsius instead.

Lmk, maybe I already have sims that you want/need laying around.
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