GTO GTO+/CardRunnersEV? - Page 396 - Poker Software -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

1) dEV is indeed simply the Nash distance.
2) In Extensive storage turn data is saved. In Basic storage it's recalculated when you navigate to a turn line; this will take a few seconds, whereas navigating to turn lines is instant with Extensive storage. If you want to use "Play against the solution" then Extensive storage is probably best. The savefiles are much smaller for Basic storage though. So if you're creating a database of a hundred trees, then in Extensive storage it may take >1GB, whereas for Basic it's only a few dozen MB.

So the accuracy in both cases is NOT affected, the advantage of extensive storage is that if i am playing against solution it will be a little faster since the turn have been already calculated. Am i right?

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05-23-2020 , 02:25 PM

#9877

stevematador

old hand

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 1,234

Is there a way to take a subset that we have solved, let’s say a mixed strategy of two bet sizes of 33% and 67% and check and then somehow re-solve the subset using only 33% pot bets 100% of the time to compare the overall EV of the entire subset? I know we can manually lock the decision of each tree and set the solver to force it to solve using a 33% pot bet 100% of the time but I have to manually do this to for each tree within the subset, I was wondering if there is a way to set the entire subset to re-solve to different parameters without manually adjusting each game tree within the entire subset.

Thanks!
Steve

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05-24-2020 , 03:51 AM

#9878

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,359

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlos243

How can the solver keep playing a GTO solution after i made a decision that is not GTO, therefore is not in the solver tree?

This data is actually in the tree, and the solver knows what to do when that strategy is played.

Last edited by scylla; 05-24-2020 at 04:07 AM.

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05-24-2020 , 03:54 AM

#9879

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,359

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlos243

Yes, all that it will affect is whether the turn data needs to be recalculated if a turn line is navigated to. So using "Extensive" storage will make the "Play against the solution" feature run a bit more smoothly. Also, when using the regular navigator (on top of the interface) to navigate to the turn, no recalc is needed when using "Extensive" storage. The downside of "Extensive" storage is that the savefiles will be larger.

Last edited by scylla; 05-24-2020 at 04:08 AM.

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05-24-2020 , 03:55 AM

#9880

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,359

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevematador

For this, simply create the tree that you're looking for.
After that, clear the database and rebuild it from the edited tree.

Quote

05-24-2020 , 03:17 PM

#9881

eduargentina

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 152

I have a tree made GTO. A player walks away from GTO check 100% and I want a max exploit strategy against him? How do I tell you this?

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05-24-2020 , 04:17 PM

#9882

KN-

newbie

Join Date: Oct 2019 Posts: 23

Hi scylla,
When you run database solves on a spot (using one of the provided flop subsets): Am I correct in assuming that the flops aren't weighted, so if you were to try figure out an average bet % for a spot it'd be skewed due to the fact some flops occur more often

If so is there any way around this?

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05-24-2020 , 07:54 PM

#9883

eduargentina

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 152

Hi! I don't understand how a GTO strategy where I bet 98% at 1/3 size has an EV 6.55. Then I lock to 100% check, and run solver again, my EV is 6.26 (6,26/6,55 I lose just 5% of EV with a completely opposite strategy)

SRP IP GTO strategy Bet 33% or check, (98% is bet 33%) EV 6.55 http://prntscr.com/sn2qdc

Check 100% EV 6.26 http://prntscr.com/sn2p53

Last edited by eduargentina; 05-24-2020 at 08:00 PM.

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05-25-2020 , 01:20 AM

#9884

underground2712

stranger

Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 1

I real enjoy your software. But i want to see some ready-made solutions. A special in wide ranges like BBvsSB or BUvsBB. My PC are not very powefull, and solving take very much time.

Quote

05-25-2020 , 04:49 AM

#9885

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,359

Quote:

Originally Posted by underground2712

I real enjoy your software. But i want to see some ready-made solutions. A special in wide ranges like BBvsSB or BUvsBB. My PC are not very powefull, and solving take very much time.

It's not really possible to create ready-made solutions.
It would require us setting:
- The ranges
- The board
- The stack-to-pot ratio
- The composition of the tree
There's too many possible combinations that people might be looking for.
Typically GTO spots are custom generated by users for certain spots.

Last edited by scylla; 05-25-2020 at 04:59 AM.

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05-25-2020 , 04:50 AM

#9886

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,359

Quote:

Originally Posted by eduargentina

I have a tree made GTO. A player walks away from GTO check 100% and I want a max exploit strategy against him? How do I tell you this?

For this, simply build a tree where OOP only checks.
After that, solve it.

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05-25-2020 , 04:53 AM

#9887

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,359

Quote:

Originally Posted by eduargentina

When playing perfectly, all bet sizes perform very closely to each other. And apparently even "Bet" and "Check" can perform closely. Please note that the strong hands that were previously bet for value, have now been moved to the "Check" action. Not only will they still obtain value in these lines (there's still a lof of turn/river play left), but they will also increase the value of the previous "Check" hands, that are now better disguised.

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05-25-2020 , 04:55 AM

#9888

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,359

Quote:

Originally Posted by KN-

There's no need to do anything; the flops are weighted by default.

Quote

05-25-2020 , 10:18 AM

#9889

magorko

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,206

hello is it possible to drill only flops? so when i choose my play on flop and it would go to turn, playing stop and i get new hand? also can you add frequencies for drilling to see how much i deviate from GTO frequencies? lets say i would drilll flop subset where flop cbet is 60% and i would like to see on my hand history with solver how much iam off from this number this way i can see if i cbet too much or too little and can try to fix my GTO frequencies and also with different parts of range, lets say TP is cbet 70% of time and GTO+ would show me GTO is 70% with TP but i did it only 50% of time etc, this is already possible in gto trainer from simple postflop

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05-25-2020 , 11:14 AM

#9890

SlavaGZ

grinder

Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 411

Any way that i can "fusion" files? i mean if i have 2 files with 2 dferent amount of trees, can i fusion them in one file? so i have all that trees in only one?

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05-25-2020 , 11:46 AM

#9891

Bella Ciao

newbie

Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 31

hi, just wondering when we save a range say SB 3b vs BTN, how we save for both ranges? for example; i've saved OOP & IP ranges in a .gto file and when i load it, both ranges load perfectly. i'll then 'add range' and label it. however, say i i fiddle around with IPs range and want to change it back, when i hit the saved range on the right hand window, it will apply the OOPs range to the IP range. is there a way around this? am i not creating a saved range correctly in the first place in the right window?

hope i made sense, thanks

Last edited by Bella Ciao; 05-25-2020 at 11:57 AM. Reason: since answered own question

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05-25-2020 , 12:45 PM

#9892

squip

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 137

Quote:

Originally Posted by scylla

If according to solver, EVs are always close whatever the line you take, then, how do people know when "is it right" to do simplifications like Cbet range at 33% size?

Quote

05-25-2020 , 01:16 PM

#9893

1BigOT

adept

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 881

Quote:

Originally Posted by squip

If according to solver, EVs are always close whatever the line you take, then, how do people know when "is it right" to do simplifications like Cbet range at 33% size?

They look at the maximum EV garnered under lines with multiple bet sizes and then reduce and simply strategies and compare EVs. In this case setting a 100% 35% bet is about the same EV as a mixed strategy.

Quote

05-25-2020 , 01:31 PM

#9894

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,359

Quote:

Originally Posted by squip

If according to solver, EVs are always close whatever the line you take, then, how do people know when "is it right" to do simplifications like Cbet range at 33% size?

You can pick basically any bet size. With perfect play all bet sizes perform closely to one another. You can check this for yourself by building the same tree, but for different bet sizes. After that, check OOPs overall EV (that's his EV below the table in his very first decision). As you'll find, his overall performance is almost the same, regardless of the bet size. "Bet" and "Check" are not necessarily close, but apparently in the instance that you're referring to they are. With other ranges/boards this may not be the case.

Last edited by scylla; 05-25-2020 at 01:37 PM.

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05-25-2020 , 01:33 PM

#9895

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,359

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bella Ciao

The predef window only loads ranges for the matrix in the active window.
It does not load for both IP and OOP.

Quote

05-25-2020 , 01:43 PM

#9896

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,359

Quote:

Originally Posted by magorko

hello is it possible to drill only flops? so when i choose my play on flop and it would go to turn, playing stop and i get new hand?

Press F1 to restart your hand (new hands, new board).
Press F2 to replay a hand (same hands, same board).

Quote:

Originally Posted by magorko

also can you add frequencies for drilling to see how much i deviate from GTO frequencies? lets say i would drilll flop subset where flop cbet is 60% and i would like to see on my hand history with solver how much iam off from this number this way i can see if i cbet too much or too little and can try to fix my GTO frequencies and also with different parts of range, lets say TP is cbet 70% of time and GTO+ would show me GTO is 70% with TP but i did it only 50% of time etc, this is already possible in gto trainer from simple postflop

For this, simply press CTRL to see the correct distribution. We could indeed add a feature where you would first need to manually enter a distribution, and then click a button to see how you performed, however, this basically comes down to the same net effect, with fewer buttons needing to be clicked.

Last edited by scylla; 05-25-2020 at 01:53 PM.

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05-25-2020 , 01:51 PM

#9897

scylla

GTO+ Representative

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 7,359

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlavaGZ

Any way that i can "fusion" files? i mean if i have 2 files with 2 dferent amount of trees, can i fusion them in one file? so i have all that trees in only one?

Yes, you can merge databases.
There's two different ways of doing this.

Manually merge databases
For this, load the first database. Go to the database window and click on the lock icon (see screenshot below). If you now load another file, the database will not be cleared prior to loading the new file. As a result, the databases will be merged.

Automatically merge many different files
For this, place all the files that you want to merge into a single directory.
Now enter "Merge" after "Import flops from file" and instruct GTO+ to merge all files in the directory into a single database.
Go here for more details: https://www.gtoplus.com/mergefiles/

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05-25-2020 , 06:38 PM

#9898

eduargentina

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 152

Hi! I locked flop 100% cbet in 44 subset tree. But is possible block for example turn or river too?

http://prntscr.com/snpd35

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05-26-2020 , 02:01 AM

#9899

ionutd

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 13,624

Hi Scylla,

Would be nice to have an auto save feature like Simple has.
Like in case you're working on a database, have it save itself every flop it finishes solving in a temp file and then the temp file gets deleted when you save it yourself.
Was undergoing a sim that was 9/10 days in, power went off and all lost. Not the first time this happened either.
Cheers.