Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? GTO+/CardRunnersEV?

04-25-2020 , 06:55 PM
Hi Scylla
Apologies if you have answered this question elsewhere: What can I do to increase the solving speed of a flop database? What options can I change? If I am to buy a new computer, what specs should I aim for?
Thanks
Rod
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-26-2020 , 04:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nzrod
Hi Scylla
Apologies if you have answered this question elsewhere: What can I do to increase the solving speed of a flop database? What options can I change? If I am to buy a new computer, what specs should I aim for?
Thanks
Rod
Basically the only factor that affects solving speed is your CPU.
The solving speed is decided by the CPU speed, and its number of cores.
So a 3.2gHz CPU with 4 cores comes down to a 4x3.2=12.8gHz system.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-26-2020 , 08:55 AM
Hey Scylla,

a neat feature that I'd imagine would be relatively easy to implement would be allowing to fix for more than one statistic. Right now you can only fix for one statistic (for example, top pair) but it would be useful in some cases to be able to fix for something like 'top pair' + 'flush draw'

Just a thought, as since the functionality to fix for a statistic is there it would seem easy to allow fixing for multiple ones!
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-26-2020 , 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
Solving speeds
Our solving speeds are similar to pio, and our memory use is lower.

Play against the solution
We offer a "Play against the solution" feature, which is not available in pio (here is a short video: https://youtu.be/YuRsCQajRBA).

We converge to 0%
GTO+ converges to 0%, whereas pio will typically stop converging at about 0.05%.

Small savefiles and database functionality
We offer small savefiles, requiring only a few hundred kb per save (non-stored data can quickly be recalculated on the fly). Our small savefile approach allows us to let you create databases of hundreds of trees, which is something I believe pio can not offer.

Internal analysis tools
We offer internal analysis tools analysing the solutions, as well as graphs, tables, etc; to the best of my knowledge pio only offers the most basic of analysis methods, while otherwise needing its output to be manually copied to external software.

Visual editor as oposed to text based editor
We offer an editor with a graphical interface for editing trees, whereas pio only seems to offer some sort of text based editor.

Card removal ON/OFF
We offer a feature to toggle card removal ON/OFF throughout the solution.

Multiple bet sizes
We do indeed have multiple bet sizes (see video 3 on the tree builder here: www.gtoplus.com/videos).

Other differences
The only thing that we don't offer is a preflop solver. It's possible for us to create this, but the problem is that this feature requires a custom built computer, which almost none of our target audience will have. With some searching you may find some minor differences between pio and GTO+. We could easily add whichever features those may be; however, the decision not to clutter our interface with all sorts of buttons is more of an interface design choice, where we need to balance how many features are offered in the available space versus ease-of-use.

Why is the price lower?
GTO+ can essentially do everything that pio can, and is even in many ways superior. Some people assume that because we offer it for less, there must be a reason for this. However, for example, our other software Flopzilla is also sold way below market value, with lifetime upgrades for only a single payment of $25. The reason for the pricing is simply that we don't want to charge regular consumers huge amounts of money for gaming-related software.



We have moved most CREV functionality to GTO+, which is essentially CREV2. It covers most of what CREV can do (as well as a lot of additional functionality in the area of GTO), and has a smoother learning curve. CREV definitely still has its uses, such as a visual interface and a diverse set of additional options, but in order to keep things simple, I would recommend sticking with GTO+.
Ty a lot for your time
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-26-2020 , 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
Solving speeds


We have moved most CREV functionality to GTO+, which is essentially CREV2. It covers most of what CREV can do (as well as a lot of additional functionality in the area of GTO), and has a smoother learning curve. CREV definitely still has its uses, such as a visual interface and a diverse set of additional options, but in order to keep things simple, I would recommend sticking with GTO+.
CREV does preflop while GTO+ doesn't. I can't work out why that is not considered valuable. Eg working out a 3bet calling range.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-27-2020 , 03:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nzrod
CREV does preflop while GTO+ doesn't. I can't work out why that is not considered valuable. Eg working out a 3bet calling range.
Yes, CREV can indeed do preflop, and has several other additional features. GTO+ is more focussed on GTO and has additional features in that area. I would at the very least recommend starting with GTO+ because of its smoother learning curve.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-27-2020 , 03:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by r00vam
Hey Scylla,

a neat feature that I'd imagine would be relatively easy to implement would be allowing to fix for more than one statistic. Right now you can only fix for one statistic (for example, top pair) but it would be useful in some cases to be able to fix for something like 'top pair' + 'flush draw'

Just a thought, as since the functionality to fix for a statistic is there it would seem easy to allow fixing for multiple ones!
Ok, I will consider it for future releases.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-27-2020 , 04:52 AM
Love the play against the solution feature in gto+. Any chance you will release some drill style content so it's not all needed to be be produced individually on ones own?
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-27-2020 , 06:51 AM
I've set option "don't donk (unless you've shown aggression previously)", but if action is bet->call | check->bet->call | now on the River, OP player can donk (I guess since he had aggression or betting lead on the flop), but obv. most of the time we don't want that, right?
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-27-2020 , 09:17 AM
Scylla, complex trees are solving way faster than usual. Is this due to an update? im using the pc i always use and same spr btw.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-27-2020 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gcm1998
Scylla, complex trees are solving way faster than usual. Is this due to an update? im using the pc i always use and same spr btw.
Indeed...I was solving 30bb spots with 2 geometric bets 33 flops subsets and it solved very fast.This r not complex trees but still...
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-27-2020 , 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by StructureK
Love the play against the solution feature in gto+. Any chance you will release some drill style content so it's not all needed to be be produced individually on ones own?
It would be difficult to provide general content here, given that users generally will be looking for custom spots.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-27-2020 , 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YouBetIcall
I've set option "don't donk (unless you've shown aggression previously)", but if action is bet->call | check->bet->call | now on the River, OP player can donk (I guess since he had aggression or betting lead on the flop), but obv. most of the time we don't want that, right?
If OOP bets the flop, then this is considered “previous aggression”.
You can however also specify no donking on the turn with the input 0d.
See the screenshot below.

GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-27-2020 , 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gcm1998
Scylla, complex trees are solving way faster than usual. Is this due to an update? im using the pc i always use and same spr btw.
Quote:
Originally Posted by disident
Indeed...I was solving 30bb spots with 2 geometric bets 33 flops subsets and it solved very fast.This r not complex trees but still...
I've done a quick check and didn't find any difference between v124 and v129.
Can you perhaps send a tree to support that you feel solves faster than usual?

Edit:
Come to think of it, to which version are you comparing?
Is it v128 or a much older version?
Improvements were indeed made as compared to some older versions.

Last edited by scylla; 04-27-2020 at 02:53 PM.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-27-2020 , 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
I've done a quick check and didn't find any difference between v124 and v129.
Can you perhaps send a tree to support that you feel solves faster than usual?

Edit:
Come to think of it, to which version are you comparing?
Is it v128 or a much older version?
Improvements were indeed made as compared to some older versions.
U mean save file that we solved?What's the email?
It is 85MB?It is possible to sand it through email?

Last edited by disident; 04-27-2020 at 04:32 PM.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-27-2020 , 05:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by disident
U mean save file that we solved?What's the email?
It is 85MB?It is possible to sand it through email?
Ok, I've sent you a PM.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-27-2020 , 06:13 PM
Hi scylla,

To see the turn and river distributions with the newest update, do we have to re-run the subset?

Also how do we get to the turn distributions?

Thanks.

Last edited by djz; 04-27-2020 at 06:18 PM.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-28-2020 , 01:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
If OOP bets the flop, then this is considered “previous aggression”.
yeah, I understand the logic behind it, but I'd say that most players if not all, consider “previous aggression” only if street before was closed and player had last aggression IMO, even in practice you can see that line is not used much and everyone would call it donking.

So this means that for every sim where OP has initiative we have to what wout for that and add that extra line, could you consider to remove that in next update please?
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-28-2020 , 02:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YouBetIcall
yeah, I understand the logic behind it, but I'd say that most players if not all, consider “previous aggression” only if street before was closed and player had last aggression IMO, even in practice you can see that line is not used much and everyone would call it donking. So this means that for every sim where OP has initiative we have to what wout for that and add that extra line, could you consider to remove that in next update please?
Ok, I will consider it for future releases.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-28-2020 , 02:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djz
Hi scylla,
To see the turn and river distributions with the newest update, do we have to re-run the subset?
Yes, this feature indeed only works for trees calculated with v129 (or later).

Quote:
Originally Posted by djz
Also how do we get to the turn distributions?
For this use the navigator.

GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-28-2020 , 06:24 AM
don't know if this was asked before, but should the GTO+ and other solvers have same or very similar results and frequencies if solved to let's say 0,25%? If we input same ranges and sizings etc...
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-28-2020 , 08:21 AM
Hi,

if Im understanding it right, the drill option is only available in a way that it locks down the flop/turn/river cards and only changes my own holecards? Wouldnt it make sense to be able to drill certain spot in the gametree but with the communitycards also rotating within the solved subset? Sorry if this is already possible and thanks in advance!
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-28-2020 , 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla
Solving speeds
Our solving speeds are similar to pio, and our memory use is lower.

Play against the solution
We offer a "Play against the solution" feature, which is not available in pio (here is a short video: https://youtu.be/YuRsCQajRBA).

We converge to 0%
GTO+ converges to 0%, whereas pio will typically stop converging at about 0.05%.

Small savefiles and database functionality
We offer small savefiles, requiring only a few hundred kb per save (non-stored data can quickly be recalculated on the fly). Our small savefile approach allows us to let you create databases of hundreds of trees, which is something I believe pio can not offer.

Internal analysis tools
We offer internal analysis tools analysing the solutions, as well as graphs, tables, etc; to the best of my knowledge pio only offers the most basic of analysis methods, while otherwise needing its output to be manually copied to external software.

Visual editor as oposed to text based editor
We offer an editor with a graphical interface for editing trees, whereas pio only seems to offer some sort of text based editor.

Card removal ON/OFF
We offer a feature to toggle card removal ON/OFF throughout the solution.

Multiple bet sizes
We do indeed have multiple bet sizes (see video 3 on the tree builder here: www.gtoplus.com/videos).

Other differences
The only thing that we don't offer is a preflop solver. It's possible for us to create this, but the problem is that this feature requires a custom built computer, which almost none of our target audience will have. With some searching you may find some minor differences between pio and GTO+. We could easily add whichever features those may be; however, the decision not to clutter our interface with all sorts of buttons is more of an interface design choice, where we need to balance how many features are offered in the available space versus ease-of-use.

Why is the price lower?
GTO+ can essentially do everything that pio can, and is even in many ways superior. Some people assume that because we offer it for less, there must be a reason for this. However, for example, our other software Flopzilla is also sold way below market value, with lifetime upgrades for only a single payment of $25. The reason for the pricing is simply that we don't want to charge regular consumers huge amounts of money for gaming-related software.



We have moved most CREV functionality to GTO+, which is essentially CREV2. It covers most of what CREV can do (as well as a lot of additional functionality in the area of GTO), and has a smoother learning curve. CREV definitely still has its uses, such as a visual interface and a diverse set of additional options, but in order to keep things simple, I would recommend sticking with GTO+.
interesting comparison here :

GTO+ and PioSOLVER Comparison/Validation [2020]
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-28-2020 , 01:24 PM
Hi Scylla,

Is it possible to display the relative percentages (an not the absolute) of diefferent actions inside of a handgroup.? For example if you have 5% sets and check 40% of them then I would like to see 40% instead of 2%. I don't need those absolute numbers. Maybe you could also implement a toggle for displaying both, but I don't think that these absolute percentages are very useful for most users. And displaying the distribution for different handgroups in a simpler way (just 3 bars side by side for example for a checking and 2 betting ranges, like simple postflop) would be more useful too, because you get a broad picture of the whole range-distribution much faster and if you want to see the details you have to take a closer look on specific handcombinations anyway. Thank you!
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote
04-28-2020 , 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fps91
Hi,
if Im understanding it right, the drill option is only available in a way that it locks down the flop/turn/river cards and only changes my own holecards? Wouldnt it make sense to be able to drill certain spot in the gametree but with the communitycards also rotating within the solved subset? Sorry if this is already possible and thanks in advance!
The turn/river is randomly drawn upon each new hand. This is unless you use F2 to replay a hand, in which case the same turn/river will be used. However, when using either F1, or by completing a hand and moving to the next one, the turn/river will always be randomly drawn.
GTO+/CardRunnersEV? Quote

      
m