There's no need to take rake into account.
So, if the pot is $6 on the flop, then there's no need to make this $5.70.
Rake is taken out of the pot at the end of the hand.

This is available in the editor, however, it would be very difficult to add in the tree builder. The problem is that in the tree builder it's not always clear what the stack-to-pot ratio is at any given point. That makes it impossible to give an instruction like "make 3 geometrically sized bets".

We do offer "With only 2 bets left, get the money in smoothly". This means that once stacks get somewhat shallow, the play is finished up with two geometrically sized bets. So if you set the default bet to 75% and turn this option ON, then the players will make 75% bets until stacks get shallow. At that point the tree builder takes over and makes two geometrically sized bets, which makes for fairly natural play.

I don't really understand how "it's not always clear what the stack-to-pot ratio is at any given point" is possible, but I think your problem is that you want to plan several bets ahead.
I can calculate the geometric sizes myself before putting them in the advanced tree builder, so I can't see how the solver can't do it :P

Here is the formulas I use:
The general formula over n streets is : pot*(((2*effectiveStack/pot+1)^(1/n)-1)/2)
This formula outputs the percentage of the pot you need to bet in order to be all-in over n streets. (an extremely close approximation. n=1 would simplify to betting effectiveStack)

So using a input like Pio: 3e would mean pot*(((2*effectiveStack/pot+1)^(1/3)-1)/2)
Just plug in the effective stack and pot size on that street and that's it.

So if I use 2e on the turn, you would use the turn effective stack and pot size (with n=2). I can't see how you wouldn't have this information available to complete the formula, otherwise, you wouldn't be able to calculate the percentages of the pot and the other all-in settings.

Maybe I'm missing something though :P

If we had the option to choose between "add or go" with 2 bets left get the money in smotlhy would be very good instead of only go, because then we could have the geometric without have to eliminate other size from the tree

Enviado de meu XT1033 usando o Tapatalk

Hi Scylla,

I messed up trying to import some PF ranges pio format.



I tried to list what I did so you can see it in the attached pic.
Also I followed this steps:
1) Create a directory /pio in its directory (most likely C:/program files/GTO) - mine is C:/program files(x86)/GTO
2) Copy the pio ranges into this directory (I created a pio folder)
3) Start GTO+
4) Go to “Settings->Import predef ranges" in its menu
5) Select “pio” in the first toggle
6) Click on “IMPORT RANGES” (see screenshot)
The ranges will now be stored to the file newdefs3.txt in the subdirectory /config of GTO+.

Now I lost the original ranges (those who come with the program) and those I had created.
I think one of my errors was that I leaved ''replace current ranges'' active instead of ''import into sub-category'' when trying to import.

Could you give me a hand with this?

Ok, I will consider it for future releases.

The problem is that across different turn lines the stack-to-pot ratio may be entirely different.
Input like 2e may be relevant in certain lines, while it isn't in others.

Your ranges are stored in /config/newdefs3.txt.
Backups of this file are stored in /config/backups.
To restore your ranges to an earlier state, rename one of the files in /config/backups to newdefs3.txt and replace the one in /config with it.

The installation directory for GTO+ will most likely be C:\Program Files\GTO.

Well, if it isn't relevant, then the betsize that it calculate will we weird, sure. But that's already the case with a lot of things now, a lot of my sizes on the turn/river are weird depending on which branch I chose on the flop.
I still think that it should be an option left to the user, who should know what he is doing if he chooses to use the advanced tree builder. It would basically just be a shortcut so that we don't have to calculate the geometric sizes ourselves.

At least, could you add a way to add geometric directly when editing a tree? Right now if edit a flop branch, I cannot put a geometric size, I can only put a size and then tell the solver "Followed by geometric size...". So geometric sizings can only start on the turn, not the flop.

Thanks

Hello scylla, "play against the solution" button doesnt active, why?


here is the file if it need it
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php...63151988584611

I would like a feature in Flopzilla to run all strategically distinct flops range vs range and then have a sortable report kinda like the turn reports in GTO+, so I can see at a glance on what flops each range has the biggest advantage. The minimum info would be equity but it could be expanded to include all sorts of stats like different hand strength comparisons or equity distribution (ie sort flops by % of range that has over X amount of equity).

After finishing solving long overnight, solved data should autosave incase pc shuts down and all solved work was lost, this happened to me and was very annoying that GTO+ didnt autosave after solving 12 flops

I believe that GTO+ covers most of this functionality.
I can consider it, but at the very least in the meantime use GTO+.

You need to solve the tree under "Run solver" (middle button in the left part of the interface) before you can play against the solution.

The problem is that the turn options can apply to different lines. For example, it can apply to check-check on the flop, but bet-call as well. So there's all different sorts of stack-to-pot ratios that apply, and it's not possible to just use 2e input.

For this simply edit the action that leads to this decision and set geometric bet sizing there.
That being said, I can consider adding direct geometric sizing as an additional option as well.

For this store the file(s) that you want solved to a folder.
After that, use the "Folder" option to solve all files in that folder.
The savefile for each file will be updated after every solve.

It's not possible for us to auto-save within regular use, given that the user may not actually want this. For example, imagine that you load one of your savefiles, delete some trees, make some edits, etc, and now solve a tree. This would overwrite your savefile.

Would be possible to add a double filter in the future for GTO+ on the right side for the hand class and also allowing filtering when we looking at specific action?

Ok, I will consider it for future releases.

Hey scylla a couple of questions if you don't mind.
Disclaimer: I've never use solvers nor CREV

- is CREV still valuable these days? If so, can you briefly tell me why?

- What's the main difference between PIO and GTO+? Some major feature is missing?

Ty a lot in advance, best of luck with your business

Solving speeds
Our solving speeds are similar to pio, and our memory use is lower.

Play against the solution
We offer a "Play against the solution" feature, which is not available in pio (here is a short video: https://youtu.be/YuRsCQajRBA).

We converge to 0%
GTO+ converges to 0%, whereas pio will typically stop converging at about 0.05%.

Small savefiles and database functionality
We offer small savefiles, requiring only a few hundred kb per save (non-stored data can quickly be recalculated on the fly). Our small savefile approach allows us to let you create databases of hundreds of trees, which is something I believe pio can not offer.

Internal analysis tools
We offer internal analysis tools analysing the solutions, as well as graphs, tables, etc; to the best of my knowledge pio only offers the most basic of analysis methods, while otherwise needing its output to be manually copied to external software.

Visual editor as oposed to text based editor
We offer an editor with a graphical interface for editing trees, whereas pio only seems to offer some sort of text based editor.

Card removal ON/OFF
We offer a feature to toggle card removal ON/OFF throughout the solution.

Multiple bet sizes
We do indeed have multiple bet sizes (see video 3 on the tree builder here: www.gtoplus.com/videos).

Other differences
The only thing that we don't offer is a preflop solver. It's possible for us to create this, but the problem is that this feature requires a custom built computer, which almost none of our target audience will have. With some searching you may find some minor differences between pio and GTO+. We could easily add whichever features those may be; however, the decision not to clutter our interface with all sorts of buttons is more of an interface design choice, where we need to balance how many features are offered in the available space versus ease-of-use.

Why is the price lower?
GTO+ can essentially do everything that pio can, and is even in many ways superior. Some people assume that because we offer it for less, there must be a reason for this. However, for example, our other software Flopzilla is also sold way below market value, with lifetime upgrades for only a single payment of $25. The reason for the pricing is simply that we don't want to charge regular consumers huge amounts of money for gaming-related software.

We have moved most CREV functionality to GTO+, which is essentially CREV2. It covers most of what CREV can do (as well as a lot of additional functionality in the area of GTO), and has a smoother learning curve. CREV definitely still has its uses, such as a visual interface and a diverse set of additional options, but in order to keep things simple, I would recommend sticking with GTO+.

You are a stand up guy Scylla, thank you for what you do and the amazing products you provide to us (at a great price).

Hi,
I quoted this older post (#8643) of yours because I also experiencend memory problems with multiple turn and river sizing options. Only using one size for turn / rivers makes indeed a huge difference in needed RAM / solving time.
Why are you only referring to turn and river? Is flop sizing different and you loose EV by only using one sizing?

Hi all, have anyone of you experienced a license problem today? My GTO+ at startup says that my hardware ID has changed but I did not make any chages to my hardware.

This is a rare issue, but it can indeed occur.
You can request a new key for GTO+ here: www.gtoplus.com/request-a-key
It will be sent to you within a few minutes of your request.

Hardware ID?
Your hardware ID will be given to you by the error message.

Return to trial mode?
In order to return GTO+ to trial mode so you can register again, delete the gtokey.dat file from its directory.
Most likely this will be C:\Program Files\GTO

If you need any further help, then please contact support.

I'm making the assumption that the person who uses the software is looking at some spot on the flop. For this they would need the relevant detail. It's however not necessary to go into overly much detail in the followup lines after that on the turn/river.