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Old 03-09-2020, 04:42 PM   #9451
djz
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
At the moment this only works for a specific tree, so that you can drill a certain spot.
I can consider more functionality for future releases though.
Seconding this feature. Or always checkraise/raise IP a hand that is a mix between call and raise.
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Old 03-09-2020, 06:53 PM   #9452
Kockar
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Re: CardRunnersEV

@Syclla: I am cross posting this from my PGC blog here. I have bought a course from a HS reg where he explains how we should play the turn as the 3bettor IP in theory. My issue with this is explained in the below link from my PGC blog. Can you please help with this? Thanks.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...3&postcount=56
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Old 03-09-2020, 07:49 PM   #9453
AAlonsovic
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
I can not seem to reproduce this.
Can you perhaps explain in some more detail which steps you're taking?

The following works for me:
1) Build a tree
2) Build a database from that tree
3) Click on "PROCESS DATABASE"

This will solve all trees in the database.
Are you perhaps referring to something else?


PS:
Also, are you using v128?
The version I have is 1.2.7

- I built a tree
- I imported a file with 25 FLOPS
- I clicked on "PROCESS DATABASE"

After that there were 4-5 Flops unsolved due to lack of memory
I closed some programs to get more free memory and I clicked again on "PROCESS DATABASE"
Later when I checked it was solved only the first unsolved Flop but not the others (there was enogh memory and I checked in a couple of hours when it was taking more than 1h per Flop).
So I clicked again in "PROCESS DATABASE" and now all the pending Flops were solved after few hours

That happened to me a couple of times... when having some unsolved Flops, the first time I click again in "PROCESS DATABASE" only the first Flop was solved.
Maybe it was just a coincidence both times that only the first Flop was solved and the others were run out of memory so it finished earlier than I expected but solving only the first one... so weird to me, but maybe was this.


Anyway, I will update to 1.2.8 and I will try to check if the issue happens again.
Thanks scylla
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Old 03-10-2020, 04:23 AM   #9454
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by AAlonsovic View Post
The version I have is 1.2.7

- I built a tree
- I imported a file with 25 FLOPS
- I clicked on "PROCESS DATABASE"

After that there were 4-5 Flops unsolved due to lack of memory
I closed some programs to get more free memory and I clicked again on "PROCESS DATABASE"
Later when I checked it was solved only the first unsolved Flop but not the others (there was enogh memory and I checked in a couple of hours when it was taking more than 1h per Flop).
So I clicked again in "PROCESS DATABASE" and now all the pending Flops were solved after few hours

That happened to me a couple of times... when having some unsolved Flops, the first time I click again in "PROCESS DATABASE" only the first Flop was solved.
Maybe it was just a coincidence both times that only the first Flop was solved and the others were run out of memory so it finished earlier than I expected but solving only the first one... so weird to me, but maybe was this.


Anyway, I will update to 1.2.8 and I will try to check if the issue happens again.
Thanks scylla
Some changes were actually made in v128, so it's entirely possible that whatever caused this is no longer relevant. I will check later today if I can reproduce your issue, but please do let me know if you experience it again in v128.
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Old 03-10-2020, 04:35 AM   #9455
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kockar View Post
@Syclla: I am cross posting this from my PGC blog here. I have bought a course from a HS reg where he explains how we should play the turn as the 3bettor IP in theory. My issue with this is explained in the below link from my PGC blog. Can you please help with this? Thanks.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...3&postcount=56
There's a misconception when it comes to bet sizing. As it turns out, when playing GTO, all sizes will show almost exactly the same performance. You can check this for yourself, by building the same tree, but for different sizes. After that, check the overall performance for OOP (it's his EV below the table for the very first decision in the tree; see pic below). As you'll find, all EVs will be nearly the same, and any bet size should basically work.

What is really important when it comes to your performance is your quality of play; the bet sizing has almost no influence whatsoever; for any size there's a strategy that performs almost exactly the same as any other size. A consequence of this is that the approach of using multiple sizes (to see which one occurs most) doesn't really work. Within a given dEV there's several different configurations of betting frequencies that all lead to the same result. You're basically looking at static. Bet sizing is really not something to be overly obsessed with; there's almost nothing to be gained here as opposed to focussing on your quality of play.

As a second note I would just like to point out that GTO+ and pio will reach the turn line with ranges that are almost certainly not entirely identical. Differences in the following turn solution are therefore to be expected.


Last edited by scylla; 03-10-2020 at 05:04 AM.
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Old 03-10-2020, 04:46 PM   #9456
hachaque
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hello Scylla,

First of all congratulations for the play against solution addon.

Related to this I have some suggestions.

1- Be able to Drill the current decision when you play vs database
2- Add an option to Drill the current decision playing vs database that allows to play just the current street (flop,turn,river)
3- When you press F9 - Draw new turn and river -> Refresh the current turn in order to be able to play the same spot in different turns and not only the future street.

Thanks
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Old 03-10-2020, 05:12 PM   #9457
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by hachaque View Post
Hello Scylla,

First of all congratulations for the play against solution addon.

Related to this I have some suggestions.

1- Be able to Drill the current decision when you play vs database
2- Add an option to Drill the current decision playing vs database that allows to play just the current street (flop,turn,river)
3- When you press F9 - Draw new turn and river -> Refresh the current turn in order to be able to play the same spot in different turns and not only the future street.

Thanks
Ok, I will take it under consideration for future releases.
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Old 03-10-2020, 05:15 PM   #9458
AAlonsovic
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by hachaque View Post
3- When you press F9 - Draw new turn and river -> Refresh the current turn in order to be able to play the same spot in different turns and not only the future street.

Thanks
+1

Super interesting feature to be added
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Old 03-10-2020, 11:31 PM   #9459
pokerboy1606
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by scylla View Post
Ok, I will consider it for future releases.
Thanks
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Old 03-11-2020, 12:25 PM   #9460
Lozgod
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Re: CardRunnersEV



How do I get to the bottom parts of the tree? I tried changing the screen resolution and could only get down so far. Is there a setting I can change on the software or my laptop?
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Old 03-11-2020, 03:06 PM   #9461
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lozgod View Post


How do I get to the bottom parts of the tree? I tried changing the screen resolution and could only get down so far. Is there a setting I can change on the software or my laptop?
You can either drag the tree upwards, or use your mousewheel to zoom out a bit.
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Old 03-11-2020, 03:41 PM   #9462
RyanWCollins
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Re: CardRunnersEV

The new feature of navigating through the tree in database and check the player's response in the table:

only works for databases which I solved after downloading v128, but not for the old ones. I don't see those buttons at all for older databases. Intuitively for me it shouldn't matter if the database is old or not, but maybe there is a valid reason for this?

And for the new databases; it works good on the flop, but when I try to press any of the actions in turn report, it just switches tab to "Player 2" but doesn't actually do anything. I still see player 1's first action choices in the table rather than navigating in the tree
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Old 03-12-2020, 03:40 AM   #9463
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanWCollins View Post
The new feature of navigating through the tree in database and check the player's response in the table:
only works for databases which I solved after downloading v128, but not for the old ones. I don't see those buttons at all for older databases. Intuitively for me it shouldn't matter if the database is old or not, but maybe there is a valid reason for this?
This feature indeed only works for databases that were calculated with v128.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanWCollins View Post
And for the new databases; it works good on the flop, but when I try to press any of the actions in turn report, it just switches tab to "Player 2" but doesn't actually do anything. I still see player 1's first action choices in the table rather than navigating in the tree
We haven't added this yet for v128, but it will be available in v129.
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Old 03-13-2020, 03:13 AM   #9464
Pedro Henrique
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hey scyla I was reviewing a bluffcatchspot to see the overall ev of the range of both players at the decision point of the hand, then for curiosity porpuses I locked one player to overfold and I let the solver exploit it, then I check the ev again but both players gained ev, the strategy from the exploiter player changed and his ev get bigger but the ev of the overfolder get bigger too compared to the gto sim, what could cause this to happen? I tested this with a very low Dev, shoudn't overfolder player ev get lower?


also can you add the drill current decision but against database too? a lot of people asked for this
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Old 03-13-2020, 04:25 AM   #9465
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro Henrique View Post
Hey scyla I was reviewing a bluffcatchspot to see the overall ev of the range of both players at the decision point of the hand, then for curiosity porpuses I locked one player to overfold and I let the solver exploit it, then I check the ev again but both players gained ev, the strategy from the exploiter player changed and his ev get bigger but the ev of the overfolder get bigger too compared to the gto sim, what could cause this to happen? I tested this with a very low Dev, shoudn't overfolder player ev get lower?
The EV for the player with the restriction should drop. Please note that you need to measure the EV for both players at the very first entry point of the tree (so not at any decision after that). For this, check OOP's EV below the table for his very first decision. IP's EV will be displayed as well when you mouse over this field.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro Henrique View Post
also can you add the drill current decision but against database too? a lot of people asked for this
I will see what I can do.
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Old 03-14-2020, 10:01 PM   #9466
MadCat
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanWCollins View Post
The new feature of navigating through the tree in database and check the player's response in the table:

only works for databases which I solved after downloading v128, but not for the old ones. I don't see those buttons at all for older databases. Intuitively for me it shouldn't matter if the database is old or not, but maybe there is a valid reason for this?

And for the new databases; it works good on the flop, but when I try to press any of the actions in turn report, it just switches tab to "Player 2" but doesn't actually do anything. I still see player 1's first action choices in the table rather than navigating in the tree
Thanks for posting this. Explains my cufusion away.
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Old 03-14-2020, 10:14 PM   #9467
MadCat
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Scylla, does your software support virtual machines? I'm considering making a switch to a linux based operating system and attempting to run and register this program through a VM running Windows but am concerned. I already found out that it's probably impossible to run a .msi windows installer through Wine, which leaves me to try a VM or dual boot. Dual booting being my last option since a VM would be more convenient.
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Old 03-15-2020, 05:14 AM   #9468
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadCat View Post
Scylla, does your software support virtual machines? I'm considering making a switch to a linux based operating system and attempting to run and register this program through a VM running Windows but am concerned. I already found out that it's probably impossible to run a .msi windows installer through Wine, which leaves me to try a VM or dual boot. Dual booting being my last option since a VM would be more convenient.
Our licensing system locks keys to the machine that they were generated for. So it's not possible to constantly switch machines. That being said, I believe that a decent number of users are running on an external VM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadCat View Post
I already found out that it's probably impossible to run a .msi windows installer through Wine
I think that an .msi installer should work.
However, we also offer a .zip version, which is available on the website: www.gtoplus.com/download
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Old 03-15-2020, 02:40 PM   #9469
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Re: CardRunnersEV

We have add/go all-in if push less then X% of pot, could we get it also for X% of remaining stack?
Also AI for going all-in in the tree builder/tree editor would be super useful. Maybe even the 1e/2e/3e notation like PIO (1e=AI).
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Old 03-16-2020, 05:24 AM   #9470
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by alkaatch View Post
We have add/go all-in if push less then X% of pot, could we get it also for X% of remaining stack?
Also AI for going all-in in the tree builder/tree editor would be super useful. Maybe even the 1e/2e/3e notation like PIO (1e=AI).
Ok, I will take it under consideration.
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Old 03-20-2020, 02:47 PM   #9471
TT-N-T
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Scylla,

Question on CardRunners EV:

In a HU match, BB and SB start with 75bb. Both players retain their range until the river (spot I am trying to solve).

How is the EV of each players decision on the river measured? I am reading Will Tipton's book, which measures EV in relation to the stack size before the hand.

So below: BB's EV is 27.92, and SB's is 13.16.

How does this (both EVs) add up to be 150, which would be both players' starting stack sizes?


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Old 03-20-2020, 04:31 PM   #9472
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by TT-N-T View Post
Scylla,

Question on CardRunners EV:

In a HU match, BB and SB start with 75bb. Both players retain their range until the river (spot I am trying to solve).

How is the EV of each players decision on the river measured? I am reading Will Tipton's book, which measures EV in relation to the stack size before the hand.

So below: BB's EV is 27.92, and SB's is 13.16.

How does this (both EVs) add up to be 150, which would be both players' starting stack sizes?


The EVs for both players will not add up to the starting stack sizes.
It will add up to the pot.
This is because the pot is what the players are fighting over; each player has a share (or "equity") of the pot.

BB's EV
In the pic, BB's EV is 27.92.

SB's EV
In 70.1% of the cases SB's EV will be 13.16.
In 29.9% BB folds and SB wins the pot of 53.
That makes SB's EV 70.1% * 13.16 + 29.9%*53 = 25.08.

Sum of BB's and SB's EV
27.92 + 25.08 = 53 (which is the pot).

Last edited by scylla; 03-20-2020 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 03-21-2020, 02:18 AM   #9473
Krax
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hi,

I love the way ranges on each street can be exported into flopzilla.
Is there any way to allow combining ranges? For example, when Im looking at raise/call/fold ranges, I can export every range separately, but I failed to find a way to export continue range (raise+call) into flopzilla.
thanks
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Old 03-21-2020, 11:19 AM   #9474
Mates.
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Scylla hello.

I can't add flops to a DB containing subset, is there any way to do it ?. and if for example I add more "subsets" it deletes the solved ones ..


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Old 03-21-2020, 12:12 PM   #9475
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by Mates. View Post
Scylla hello.
I can't add flops to a DB containing subset, is there any way to do it ?. and if for example I add more "subsets" it deletes the solved ones ..
Our subsets are perfectly weighted and balanced to represent the 1755 possible flops as closely as possible. Adding more flops would make them (much) less accurate. For that reason the option to add more flops is currently disabled when using a subset.
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