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Old 09-25-2019, 04:03 AM   #8701
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyulgeroff View Post
I was asking because PIO has this option and I figured that probably there would a way to do it where the software extracts the data from that point taking into account the strategy and ranges for the other player on every flop
Here is example of that from PIO where Player1 checks, Player 2 bets and PIO extracts data across all flops for Player 1 response:
Yes, I'm aware that this data can be plotted. The problem however is that beyond the first decision each point is reached with different ranges. Having been measured under different circumstances this data isn't really suitable for being plotted. We can ignore this and plot it anyhow for later releases, but right at this moment it has been left out for this reason.

Last edited by scylla; 09-25-2019 at 04:24 AM.
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Old 09-25-2019, 04:05 AM   #8702
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by mamelas View Post
Thank you. I'm having quite a bit of fun with this. In your opinion what is the most useful, or if there is not one, the most useful set of things you can do with the database mode?
The database feature is a rather flexible approach, and can be used for many things. But I suppose one very handy use would be to create a subset of weighted flops and use that to play against the database in the "Play against the solution" feature.
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Old 09-25-2019, 04:23 AM   #8703
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Since the last update, I've created several databases. Would it be possible to list the databases somewhere within the software, then we can just select it from there? Obviously it's not an earth shattering change, but it would make things a bit smoother.
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Old 09-25-2019, 10:47 AM   #8704
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hi there,

I just started using GTO+ and I am confused about a result. Maybe I do not understand something.
My Starting Pot Size is 6 chips and I have set the accuracy to 0,5%. My understanding is, that the EV is correct in the bounds +/- 0,5%*6=0,03 chips.


However with the node lock feature I get the following results for IP after OOP checked:

Full Strategy EV: 3,67 (the solver says 40% bet and 60% check)
Locked Strategy "always bet" EV: 3,24

BUT:
Locked Strategy "always check" EV: 3,88


The EV of the strategy "always check" should not be larger then the full strategy, correct? At least not outside the error bound!?

Any insights?
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Old 09-25-2019, 11:02 AM   #8705
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by 90020590 View Post
Hi there,
I just started using GTO+ and I am confused about a result. Maybe I do not understand something.
My Starting Pot Size is 6 chips and I have set the accuracy to 0,5%. My understanding is, that the EV is correct in the bounds +/- 0,5%*6=0,03 chips.
DEV does not mean the accuracy of the EVs. It means that if either player were to deviate from his strategy, then he will not be able to improve by more than dEV, even if he were to maximally exploit all of his opponent's mistakes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 90020590 View Post
However with the node lock feature I get the following results for IP after OOP checked:
Full Strategy EV: 3,67 (the solver says 40% bet and 60% check)
Locked Strategy "always bet" EV: 3,24
BUT:
Locked Strategy "always check" EV: 3,88
The EV of the strategy "always check" should not be larger then the full strategy, correct? At least not outside the error bound!?
Any insights?
You need to look at a player's overall performance. This is easiest to do for OOP. For this, check for his EV below the table in his very first decision. See the screenshot below.


Last edited by scylla; 09-25-2019 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 09-25-2019, 11:16 AM   #8706
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by jaym99 View Post
Since the last update, I've created several databases. Would it be possible to list the databases somewhere within the software, then we can just select it from there? Obviously it's not an earth shattering change, but it would make things a bit smoother.
Are you referring to the custom databases created with "Export flops to file"?
I'll see if something can be done here.
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Old 09-25-2019, 11:18 AM   #8707
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by k0rnili0s View Post
Hey Scylla i updated to last version of GTO+ and i cant seem to be able to use the "import flops from file". It simply does nothing.
None of my stored txt files work neither any of the subset flops. Last version the export flops to files also wasnt working properly and i had to manually create the txt flop files.
Are there any restrictions on the flop weights we can be using or is it a bug?
I have to import manually i guess each flop. Is there a workaround?
Ok, I have posted update v123, which should fix this issue.
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Old 09-25-2019, 11:41 AM   #8708
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
DEV does not mean the accuracy of the EVs. It means that if either player were to deviate from his strategy, then he will not be able to improve by more than dEV, even if he were to maximally exploit his opponent's mistakes.




You need to look at a player's overall performance. This is easiest to do for OOP. For this, check for his EV below the table in his very first decision. See the screenshot below.


Thank you for the quick reply So I had a miss conception of the term dEV, still the result confuses me. And I think I found my mistake. Please look at the screenshots. What I wanted to do is just lock decision point 2, but for some reason the solver changed also decision point 1 (78% vs 91% checking). What I actually wanted to do is that Player 1 plays the full strategy in node 1 and player 2 uses the simplified strategy of checking always behind. What is the EV loss of this simplified strategy? This is the question I am trying to answer.


I am looking exactly at the overall EV you are pointing out, however for player 2 after player 1 checked. these were the figures I am providing.


This is the locked strategy:



and this is the original full strategy. I did not change anything except locking it:

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Old 09-25-2019, 01:21 PM   #8709
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
Are you referring to the custom databases created with "Export flops to file"?
I'll see if something can be done here.

Yes, that's what I'm talking about.
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Old 09-25-2019, 06:39 PM   #8710
mamelas
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
The database feature is a rather flexible approach, and can be used for many things. But I suppose one very handy use would be to create a subset of weighted flops and use that to play against the database in the "Play against the solution" feature.
Thank you. Already, after playing with it some the past few days I feel more comfortable w the desired frequencies.

Is it correct in thinking that if we are playing at equilibrium we will be break even over the long run vs the solver and the only way to beat it would be to exploit it? Also, I've noticed after a certain amount of hands our progress against the solver is restarted. Is there a place that stores all of your results for the play against the solver?
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Old 09-26-2019, 03:23 AM   #8711
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by 90020590 View Post
Thank you for the quick reply So I had a miss conception of the term dEV, still the result confuses me. And I think I found my mistake. Please look at the screenshots. What I wanted to do is just lock decision point 2, but for some reason the solver changed also decision point 1 (78% vs 91% checking). What I actually wanted to do is that Player 1 plays the full strategy in node 1 and player 2 uses the simplified strategy of checking always behind. What is the EV loss of this simplified strategy? This is the question I am trying to answer.
For this, you should also lock player 1's first decision.
In this manner, the ranges with which player 2 is reached will remain constant.
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Old 09-26-2019, 03:38 AM   #8712
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamelas View Post
Thank you. Already, after playing with it some the past few days I feel more comfortable w the desired frequencies.

Is it correct in thinking that if we are playing at equilibrium we will be break even over the long run vs the solver and the only way to beat it would be to exploit it?
You can beat the solver by dEV by always choosing the action with the highest EV. However, this is not an advised approach, given that a disadvantage here will be that your strategy will be unbalanced, and sensitive to counter-exploitation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamelas View Post
I've noticed after a certain amount of hands our progress against the solver is restarted. Is there a place that stores all of your results for the play against the solver?
I don't believe it resets unless you either restart the software or click on the "reset" icon.


Last edited by scylla; 09-26-2019 at 03:45 AM.
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Old 09-26-2019, 12:51 PM   #8713
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Re: CardRunnersEV

I think I'm doing something incorrectly, but is it possible to use a edited tree in database mode?

Perhaps I am doing the steps wrong, but I build the tree, edit it by pruning and changing some sizes, accept changes, go to database mode and add flops, run database. But the trees in the database arent the same as the one I edited.

Or do I need to import each tree into the tree editor individually and edit them individually?

Last edited by Doezoe; 09-26-2019 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 09-26-2019, 02:24 PM   #8714
maltrus
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hi scylla. is it possible to open different files xxx.gto in the same window? For now every file runs a new program.
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Old 09-26-2019, 06:00 PM   #8715
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by maltrus View Post
Hi scylla. is it possible to open different files xxx.gto in the same window? For now every file runs a new program.
You can open multiple windows of GTO+ and open the files separately.
If I understand you correctly, then this should basically come down to the same thing.

Last edited by scylla; 09-26-2019 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 09-26-2019, 06:03 PM   #8716
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doezoe View Post
I think I'm doing something incorrectly, but is it possible to use a edited tree in database mode?

Perhaps I am doing the steps wrong, but I build the tree, edit it by pruning and changing some sizes, accept changes, go to database mode and add flops, run database. But the trees in the database arent the same as the one I edited.

Or do I need to import each tree into the tree editor individually and edit them individually?
It seems to work for me over here. Can you try clearing the database before creating the new one from the new tree? If the issue persists, then please send a savefile to support and I will check if I can recreate your issue.
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Old 09-26-2019, 10:20 PM   #8717
opgf
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hello, is there a way to use a nodelocked strategy on different flops? (I was trying to run
the sims where the player cbet whole range across many flops)
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Old 09-26-2019, 11:07 PM   #8718
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by opgf View Post
Hello, is there a way to use a nodelocked strategy on different flops? (I was trying to run
the sims where the player cbet whole range across many flops)
nvm, realized someone literally just asked about this. problem solved
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Old 09-27-2019, 06:46 AM   #8719
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
For this, you should also lock player 1's first decision.
In this manner, the ranges with which player 2 is reached will remain constant.
Thank you very much for the quick replies. So far I am very pleased with my decision to go for GTO+

One more question: Is it possible to have multiple instances of GTO+ running? It seems to work. I imagine there could be some limitations while solving but I am thinking mainly of browsing solutions (e.g. for conveniently comparing the full solution against the locked decision without having to open and close each one repeatedly).
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Old 09-27-2019, 08:22 AM   #8720
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by 90020590 View Post
Thank you very much for the quick replies. So far I am very pleased with my decision to go for GTO+

One more question: Is it possible to have multiple instances of GTO+ running? It seems to work. I imagine there could be some limitations while solving but I am thinking mainly of browsing solutions (e.g. for conveniently comparing the full solution against the locked decision without having to open and close each one repeatedly).
Yes, you can open multiple instances of GTO+ for browsing solutions.
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Old 09-30-2019, 02:04 AM   #8721
iamEFX
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hi scylla
I was wondering if it's possible to make the range matrix area larger, then the single hand cube will be bigger and more clear to look over especially when the solver suggests a mixed strategy.

Thany you!
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Old 09-30-2019, 03:29 AM   #8722
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by iamEFX View Post
Hi scylla
I was wondering if it's possible to make the range matrix area larger, then the single hand cube will be bigger and more clear to look over especially when the solver suggests a mixed strategy.

Thany you!
We can consider it, although a downside here would be that in order to make it fit into the interface, other elements would need to be scaled down. That being said, you can also mouse over a hand in the matrix to see its individual hands listed in the table on the left.
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Old 09-30-2019, 08:45 AM   #8723
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyulgeroff View Post
Is there a way to see the aggregate results across multiple calculated boards, but on a different part of the tree. For example I want to see the check/raise % in the database results - like I am able to do it for the cbet which is in the beginning of the tree ?
+1
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Old 10-01-2019, 03:55 AM   #8724
ballin4life
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
We can consider it, although a downside here would be that in order to make it fit into the interface, other elements would need to be scaled down. That being said, you can also mouse over a hand in the matrix to see its individual hands listed in the table on the left.
Maybe a small button that toggles it between full screen/big size and the normal size.
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Old 10-01-2019, 05:44 AM   #8725
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Re: CardRunnersEV

hi

logged in to ask about a feature and saw that a great update was released..a month ago!
well done, happy that Ive chosen this solver (and keep recommending it).

That said: can you please add a simple feature that allows to sum up combos/percentage of multiple hand groups? Say I want to know how many % of a range are twopair+/how many combos are twopair+.

really simple, but I keep forgetting/forced to recalculate in my head, which
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