Scylla - need help again!

I know you went over this before but I can't remember how to calculate it.

I am looking at this solve

I see the EV difference between a Bet and a Check is 21.24 - 18.64 = 2.60EV gained by betting.

I am currently playing 5NL - how do I translate this 2.60EV gained into BB/100?

Question #2

In this solve it has the OOP player betting 100% of his range - is the difference in EV 21.40 - 15.43 = 5.97?

Hi Scylla,

2 questions here from a new user if I may,

1. I found GTO+ to be a little too much for me/ my computer at this poing as a noob, so I am studying CREV which I always was curious about and now getting into it, do you think this is a relevant/solid tool to use to study the game nowadays standalone and/or as a substitute for a solver for some1 who is a beginner at software?

2. When studying variables , I noticed in the guides the next line :

"Please observe that P stands for the amount of money on the table; it does not stand for pot."

Could you please clarify this nuanced difference for me?

Thank You so much

CREV is more focussed on performing EV calculations and visualisation of trees/calculations. It's more about education, whereas GTO+ is more about data analysis. So CREV has a slightly different function from GTO+ in that respect. That being said, CREV requires a steeper learning curve and more knowledge about the subtleties of certain calculations. I would expect that most people would find GTO+ to be more accessible.


Let's say the pot is 40.
Hero bets 30, Villain raises to 90.
P is now 40+30+90=160.

There's no such thing. BB/100 refers to your winrate, or in other words, how many blinds you expect to make for every hundred hands you play. A requirement for this is that whatever you measure must occur every single time for 100 hands in a row. The only spot where BB/100 is relevant is preflop, prior to posting the blinds. Any other spot will not occur 100 hands in a row, or even 2 hands in a row.


Yes, should you decide to check with your range instead of betting here you will lose $5.97 in EV, which is quite a significant mistake in a pot of 31.

I find CREV to be a fascinating tool and actually abit more accessible to me at this time (perhaps the fact that I was intrigued by it for a while and GTO+ is really slow on my comp also plays a part). Anyway, trying it out, thanks

Regarding pot size, yes, that's how I understand what pot size is. Why did the guide had that confusing line about it not being pot size? That's what threw me off.

Another question if I may - Is it possible to zoom in on a tree? Sometimes the numbers are really small and I want to see clearer

We do offer this for GTO+, but at the moment not for CREV.

Can we solve pre flop and multi way post flop with crev?


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CREV, and in particular GTO+, is more focussed towards postflop heads-up solving, which in modern games covers the majority of all relevant spots. Preflop and multiway solving is something that we could consider offering in the future, however, most of our clients would not be able to run it, given that it requires huge resources. Other issues with preflop solving are that a preflop solver only works for preflop heads-up play and that it focusses on preflop, which is precisely the phase of play where you least need a solver (you're better off looking at this historic data in your tracker; the sample size is huge, and preflop heads-up is more about exploiting your opponent's mistakes as opposed preventing to be exploited yourself). So, we can consider it, but at the very least for the short term, we prefer to invest our time on features that are useful to, and within reach of all of our clients.

What are the 3 boxes at the bottom right for? I noticed the 1st one writing "CAP" at one point, what does it mean?

CAP will most likely be the maximum rake that is taken out of the pot.
So let's say that rake is 5% in a pot of $300, then the rake will be $15.
However, if a cap is used (and most sites use a cap) of, for example, $3, then only $3 will be taken out of the pot.
So whenever the rake is larger than the cap, only the cap is taken.

As for the other boxes, I'm not sure which part of the interface you're referring to.
Can you tell me the names of the other boxes please?

I think I must be referring to something else This is the bottom of the interface (for me at least, not sure if it has something to do with using CrossOver), those 3 boxes at the right are the ones I'm talking about. I noticed the 1st one writing "CAP" at one point.

I got another irrelevant question... When selecting a turn/river, what dEV (in %) does the program initially solve to? (without selecting the circle/loading icon to solve further)

Oh, that means CAPSLOCK.
So it will say CAP when Capslock is ON.

I'd need to check but I believe it was 0.25%.

I can't seem to figure out how to enter the correct target directory to process files within it. I'm assuming it has to do with using CrossOver..

The "tmp" folder's path is /Users/andreas/Library/Application Support/CrossOver/Bottles/GTO+/drive_c/Program Files (x86)/GTO/tmp but GTO+ still says "Selected directory does not exist".

I've also tried choosing a different folder/path but I still get that same message, any suggestions?

My computer have 8 treads but sometimes when I'm multitasking I put the solver to use only 4, when I click on the blue circle on the turn to gto+ solve a subtree nodelocked it will use the number of treads I set or it uses all treads on turn solves?

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It will use the number of threads that you set.

Can you try a really simply directory, such as C:/tmp?

I figured it out, firstly "drive_c" is basically "C:/" but I suppose GTO+ doesn't recognise it as such. So I cut out the first part ("/Users/andreas/Library/Application Support/CrossOver/Bottles/GTO+/"), changed "drive_c" to "C:/" and then it works, BUT only if there's no space in any of the folders in the pathname.

For example, the default location of the "tmp" folder is C:/Program Files (x86)/GTO/tmp. If I put this as the target directory, GTO+ doesn't recognise it. If I manually rename the "Program Files (x86)" folder and remove the spaces, it works just fine. Not sure why that is, I noticed that when there are spaces in the pathname they're automatically removed when inputted as the target directory so it might just be that GTO+ can't read a pathname with a space in it as it stands.

Scylla I am trying to figure out a SBvsBB spot on the river.

I have SB cbet OTF 33% sizing - BB calls.

Turn I have SB XR 100% pot - BB calls.

Now I want to run different sizings OTR to see which size is the highest EV. Do I need to node lock to do that?

Every time I run the solve the frequencies change for SB (like cbet frequencies). What am I doing wrong?

This is what I have inputted.

Ok, so you replaced "/Users/andreas/Library/Application Support/CrossOver/Bottles/GTO+/drive_c/tmp" with "C:/tmp"? Please let me know and I'll make some changes to the code so that anything with GTO+/drive_c in it is auto-corrected internally to C:.

The approach to use multiple bet sizes to see which has the highest frequency does not work.
In GTO any bet size will perform roughly the same as any other bet size.

You can test this for yourself by creating multiple trees, but each with a different bet size. Solve those trees and then check OOP's overall performance for each tree. To get this performance, go to his very first decision in the tree and check for his EV below the table. See the screenshot below.



As you'll find, the overall EV will be almost identical for all trees, regardless of which bet size is used. This is also why you're seeing the frequencies change for every solve. The solver doesn't have a strong preference for any bet size. Within the given dEV countless configurations are possible.

So when building trees, it's best to just pick whichever bet size that you prefer. There's a GTO strategy for any size that will perform roughly the same as any other size.

Yeah that's correct, so basically "drive_c" represents "C:". But I'm not quite sure if GTO+ will be able to read the path that precedes drive_c/C: since that's the Mac/Unix path. For example, even if I choose /Users/andreas/Library as my target directory, GTO+ still says that it doesn't exist.

I suppose internally auto-correcting "drive_c" to "C:" would be fine but others using CrossOver still need to know that they shouldn't use the path preceding "C:".

I assume that people on Windows are also going to have the issue I mentioned with spaces in the pathname, since GTO+ seems to automatically remove them when the pathname is inputted, so that's probably a more "urgent" change

Ok, I will take a look at this tomorrow.
Thank you for the feedback.

I would like to be able to add some text behind the flop here: https://ibb.co/s1W6C4H
I can rename the whole tree (add curent tree, rename it and add it to database), but its slow and I loose th graphic of the flop. Please consider this! Thanks!

Well BB/100 is just currency which we chose for EV measurements and it is independent of wheter we actually play the spot once or many times. People usually understand EV in terms of longterm results, but that is not necessary. EV works perfectly even if you play the spot only once and why couldnt we calculate our EV in BB/100. What the difference between BB/100, BB/10 and BB/1? Just an convention. Or did I misunderstood you somehow?