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Old 10-10-2018, 11:22 AM   #7351
Kockar
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by LucasVienna View Post
@Kockar, This has been raised in this thread before, I believe. As IP's actions are dependent on OOP's first action, they aren't compared across different flops as you're not comparing like for like. That's been Scylla's take on it anyway.

I personally think it would be good to have this comparison anyway to look for themes in the IP strategy with the intention of looking at OOP's action for interesting flops afterwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
This data isn't displayed for several reasons. First of all, player 1 will have multiple actions. So there's not a single overall set of frequencies for player 2; instead, there's a separate set for each action by player 1. At the very least the user would need to select which line he wanted to see. Secondly, and more importantly, each decision is reached by a different range and frequency by player 1 across the different flops. So on one flop player 1 may be betting 15% of his range, on the other 85%. Data points that have been measured under completely different circumstances are not suitable to be plotted in a table/graph. The data is available in the engine, and it's possible for us to plot it anyhow, but for the moment, we have decided to leave it out for this reason.
Thanks for response.
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:57 PM   #7352
eduargentina
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hi.
I want to create a simple tree where OOP can never donkbet any street.

But when the sequence is:
Check / check flop
Check and bet turn of IP
In River OOP can do donk and I do not want that.

This is my configuration

http://prntscr.com/l4iwhy

http://prntscr.com/l4ixd9
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Old 10-11-2018, 03:53 AM   #7353
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by eduargentina View Post
Hi.
I want to create a simple tree where OOP can never donkbet any street.

But when the sequence is:
Check / check flop
Check and bet turn of IP
In River OOP can do donk and I do not want that.

This is my configuration

http://prntscr.com/l4iwhy

http://prntscr.com/l4ixd9
For the moment if you want to remove these bets, then this can be done manually with the tree editor. I will see if different river settings for the tree builder are possible for later releases.

Thank you for the feedback,

Scylla

Last edited by scylla; 10-11-2018 at 04:19 AM.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:13 PM   #7354
eduargentina
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by scylla View Post
For the moment if you want to remove these bets, then this can be done manually with the tree editor. I will see if different river settings for the tree builder are possible for later releases.

Thank you for the feedback,

Scylla
Thanks for answering me.

It is not easier to do as with PioSolver and choose street to street if we want to bet, donk or raise?

http://prntscr.com/l53uye
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Old 10-12-2018, 04:25 AM   #7355
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by eduargentina View Post
Thanks for answering me.

It is not easier to do as with PioSolver and choose street to street if we want to bet, donk or raise?

http://prntscr.com/l53uye
There's many possible approaches that can be used here.
As I said before, I will take another look at it for later releases.

Thank you for the feedback,

Scylla

Last edited by scylla; 10-12-2018 at 04:36 AM.
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Old 10-15-2018, 08:33 AM   #7356
slumlord
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Cyprine View Post
Here are the links for every video. I'm planning on doing more content about the software when i'll have a bit of time.
I enjoyed these.

What other instructionals is there? Any of the sub sites done any GTO+ videos?
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:42 PM   #7357
notaregggg
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Just got GTO+ and wondering if i can paste my monker ranges into the range explorer?
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Old 10-15-2018, 07:43 PM   #7358
LucasVienna
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Is there a way to save a tree for later from the tree editor? It's a bit of a pain having to rebuild and delve through the tree to delete unwanted branches every time I set up with a new set of ranges.

Also, would it please be possible in future releases to have an option to have a single donk bet size and multiple OOP cbet/probe sizes? Ideally with the exception of adding donk all in at an SPR of, say, <1. I think these options reflect the way many of users wish to set up their trees.
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Old 10-16-2018, 04:32 AM   #7359
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by slumlord View Post
I enjoyed these.

What other instructionals is there? Any of the sub sites done any GTO+ videos?
There's of course our own videos: www.gtoplus.com/videos
Also, if you look on YouTube then you should find a number of videos by third parties.
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Old 10-16-2018, 04:34 AM   #7360
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by notaregggg View Post
Just got GTO+ and wondering if i can paste my monker ranges into the range explorer?
Our range explorer analyses the composition of an entire decision, and visualizes how combos are distributed throughout its different actions; it has not been designed for looking at single ranges.

Last edited by scylla; 10-16-2018 at 04:58 AM.
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Old 10-16-2018, 04:41 AM   #7361
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by LucasVienna View Post
Is there a way to save a tree for later from the tree editor? It's a bit of a pain having to rebuild and delve through the tree to delete unwanted branches every time I set up with a new set of ranges.
Yes, for this,
1) Load the savefile with the tree in it
2) Make any changes you see fit
3) Go to "Build tree" and select the "Rebuild" tab
4) Click on "Rebuild with current settings"




Quote:
Originally Posted by LucasVienna View Post
Also, would it please be possible in future releases to have an option to have a single donk bet size and multiple OOP cbet/probe sizes? Ideally with the exception of adding donk all in at an SPR of, say, <1. I think these options reflect the way many of users wish to set up their trees.
We can consider it, although please do note that this would only be relevant for turn/river followup play with different bet sizes. Generally it's not worth the effort to build trees that are this big. Our solver can handle it, but, at the very least, the overall performance for OOP should not be affected by using very complex play. Almost the exact same overall EV can be accomplished with basic single line play. As an additional bonus, your trees will solve faster and be easier to interpret.

Last edited by scylla; 10-16-2018 at 04:54 AM.
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Old 10-17-2018, 03:22 AM   #7362
realtimer
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hi Scylla,

I have a question. I solved a subset of flops with these settings:

https://gyazo.com/c827fce563efc068fca95a3512edbe16

and then analyzed the flop actions.

Then I used the same file and changed the turn settings to this:

https://gyazo.com/447c6e9f082b01554983509268c5769a

Now the flop frequencies had changed for oop and the solver is giving me different strategies than for the first setting. Why is that?
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Old 10-17-2018, 04:57 PM   #7363
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtimer View Post
Hi Scylla,

I have a question. I solved a subset of flops with these settings:

https://gyazo.com/c827fce563efc068fca95a3512edbe16

and then analyzed the flop actions.

Then I used the same file and changed the turn settings to this:

https://gyazo.com/447c6e9f082b01554983509268c5769a

Now the flop frequencies had changed for oop and the solver is giving me different strategies than for the first setting. Why is that?
Frequencies are very sensitive to even very small changes in a tree. This is because hands will often have a very similar EV in the different available lines. Particularly when using multiple bet sizes this will happen a lot, given that the solver gets to choose between different bet sizes that all have approximately the same performance.

Last edited by scylla; 10-17-2018 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 10-18-2018, 09:58 AM   #7364
realtimer
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Re: CardRunnersEV

So this means if I change a bet size for a later street it suggest different bet sizes for an earlier?
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:48 AM   #7365
realtimer
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hi Scylla,

another question here.

Could you introduce an automatic save feature every so and so minutes? I have now once had the app crash and lost a lot of progress in overnight solves.

Also, I was wondering, whether it would be possible to change the default bet? I rarely want to solve for 75% and would like to have this permanently be another %.

Cheers

Last edited by realtimer; 10-18-2018 at 10:52 AM. Reason: edit: one other question
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Old 10-19-2018, 05:00 AM   #7366
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtimer View Post
So this means if I change a bet size for a later street it suggest different bet sizes for an earlier?
What is your approach here? Do I understand correctly that it's to use multiple bet sizes on the flop and then see which frequency the solver uses the most?

Last edited by scylla; 10-19-2018 at 05:17 AM.
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Old 10-19-2018, 05:04 AM   #7367
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtimer View Post
Hi Scylla,

another question here.

Could you introduce an automatic save feature every so and so minutes? I have now once had the app crash and lost a lot of progress in overnight solves.

Also, I was wondering, whether it would be possible to change the default bet? I rarely want to solve for 75% and would like to have this permanently be another %.

Cheers
This is already available. Simply save the files that you want solved to a single directory (for example C:/tmp), and then click on the folder icon to process all files in that directory. This feature will perform a save after every solve.



As for the default bet size, at the moment it's a fixed value in the software, but I can see if it can be made customizable for later releases.
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:05 AM   #7368
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
What is your approach here? Do I understand correctly that it's to use multiple bet sizes on the flop and then see which frequency the solver uses the most?
Exactly. Thatís what I wanted to find out.
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Old 10-21-2018, 04:29 AM   #7369
Ryuzaki111
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hi Scilla!

I'm having problems using Equilibrium Tool.

I'm trying to make a tree in CREV and I solved it with the equilibrium tool.

The problem is that when I finally complete the tree and click on the equilibrium button I get this message:



So ... does it mean that the equilibrium solver only works on small trees and do I need to make simple trees to do it? Thank you
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Old 10-21-2018, 05:52 AM   #7370
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuzaki111 View Post
Hi Scilla!

I'm having problems using Equilibrium Tool.

I'm trying to make a tree in CREV and I solved it with the equilibrium tool.

The problem is that when I finally complete the tree and click on the equilibrium button I get this message:



So ... does it mean that the equilibrium solver only works on small trees and do I need to make simple trees to do it? Thank you
Can you please send a savefile to support?
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Old 10-21-2018, 06:12 AM   #7371
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by realtimer View Post
Exactly. That’s what I wanted to find out.
If you want to find the optimal bet size for a spot, then the best way to do this is to create multiple trees; one for each bet size that you want to consider. After that, check the overall performance for OOP to see which size performs best. To get the overall performance, go to OOP's first decision in the tree and check his EV below the table.



When doing this, you should notice though something rather surprising; the bet size barely seems to have any influence over the overall EV at all. For any bet size there's a GTO strategy that performs almost exactly the same as any other bet size.

This is also where the problem with the approach of using multiple bet sizes to figure out the optimal bet size comes from. This approach doesn't really work, given that all bet sizes are so close to each other in performance. Even the smallest change in your tree will lead to the solver landing on different frequencies.

It's also because of this that, as it turns out, using only a single bet size does not have any significant disadvantage as compared to using multiple bet sizes. Single bet play has roughly the same overall performance as complex play with multiple bet sizes.

It's for this reason that I would recommend just sticking to single bet sizes. The EV performance will remain roughly the same, but the trees become far easier to interpret. GTO solutions with only single bets are far earier to translate into something that can be used in practical spots; trees with multiple sizes on the other hand tend to be huge, and nearly impossible to interpret. As for the bet size, any size that you feel comfortable with should work. You can check for yourself if different sizes would make much of a difference by trying out different ones, although I expect that they will all be very close in performance.

Last edited by scylla; 10-21-2018 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 10-21-2018, 07:45 AM   #7372
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Thanks a lot! Will do that then
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Old 10-21-2018, 06:24 PM   #7373
Asaf91
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Pls add round (10%, 25%, 50%, 100%) like in simple postflop.

And pls make a separate sizes for donkbets and prob bet (or float). So situation:
1) check-check flop
bet turn -
2) check-bet-call flop
bet turn

Its separate situation. But in the program its together fow now.


And pls add function "If bet less than XX ALWAYSE all in". So now if pot 69 i see this situation:



But i use this function:

Last edited by Asaf91; 10-21-2018 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 10-22-2018, 05:34 AM   #7374
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by Asaf91 View Post
Pls add round (10%, 25%, 50%, 100%) like in simple postflop.
We can consider it, but please do note that with this you will just be switching from one system that's difficult to interpret to a different system that's difficult to interpret. When people request this feature they often do so with the intent of memorizing solutions, thinking that the numbers will be easier to memorize if they are rounded. This is simply not an achievable goal. Even if you were to succeed in memorizing thousands of values, then it would just be memorizing without understanding; if the situation were changed even slightly (ranges/board) then it doesn't tell you how the values need to be changed. The approach that I would recommend is to look at the hand strengths (top pair, middle pair, set, etc) and see if you can find patterns there that can be generally applied.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Asaf91 View Post
And pls make a separate sizes for donkbets and prob bet (or float). So situation:
1) check-check flop
bet turn -
2) check-bet-call flop
bet turn
Its separate situation. But in the program its together fow now.

And pls add function "If bet less than XX ALWAYSE all in". So now if pot 69 i see this situation:
Ok, I will see what we can do here.

Last edited by scylla; 10-22-2018 at 05:39 AM.
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Old 10-22-2018, 04:40 PM   #7375
Ryuzaki111
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hi Scylla !

I'm trying to go to youtube tournament tutorial through this link. But it doesn't work. How can I have access to this tutorials? Thanks !
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