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Old 08-22-2018, 07:11 AM   #7176
vidos46
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hey, I have a lot of profiles in GTO and would find it useful to be able to save and organize those in folders.
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Old 08-22-2018, 11:24 AM   #7177
pokerboy1606
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hi Scylla,

I am wondering why I can only see player one's bet and check but cannot see player two's bet and check frequencies in the database distributions. I turned off force check for OOP.

Thanks
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Old 08-22-2018, 11:30 AM   #7178
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
es, as it turns out, there's almost no difference in performance between different bet sizes. No matter if you want to make tiny probe bets, or huge pot sized bets, it appears that there always exists a GTO strategy with a comparable performance. The same seems to apply to using multiple bet sizes; multiple bet sizes only perform marginally better as compared to using single bet sizes.
Thx for your detailed answer!

If i unterstand it correctly, then is the betsize not a crucial factor for the overall EV at most of the boards - is that right?

When the answer is yes, is there another way to check the "best" betsize? "best" means not in the sense for the overall ev, rather for Villains play. Perhaps some Boards with different betsizes have the same overall EV, but one betsize is harder do defend as one other betsize.

When i use multiple betsizes in one tree and GTO+ prefers a certain size, can i assume that the preferred size is a good way to use this size only at this board?

Thx in advance and sry for my bad english!
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Old 08-22-2018, 04:20 PM   #7179
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by vidos46 View Post
Hey, I have a lot of profiles in GTO and would find it useful to be able to save and organize those in folders.
Ok, I will see if I can do anything here for later releases.

Thank you for the feedback,

Scylla
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Old 08-22-2018, 04:24 PM   #7180
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by pokerboy1606 View Post
Hi Scylla,

I am wondering why I can only see player one's bet and check but cannot see player two's bet and check frequencies in the database distributions. I turned off force check for OOP.

Thanks
If player 1 has multiple actions in his first decision, then there is no single decision for player 2 where these frequencies can be measured; there will be a separate decision for every action by player 1. So for that reason it's not very straightforward to display overall data for player 2; a separate table would be needed for each decision. Secondly, and more importantly, the problem is that for every tree, player 1's range will be different for every action. And as a result, all data for every decision by player 2 will be measured under different circumstances. This means that this data is not really suitable to be displayed in a table. We can consider displaying it anyhow for later releases, but right at this moment, it has been left out for this reason.

Last edited by scylla; 08-22-2018 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 08-22-2018, 04:33 PM   #7181
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by Flokati View Post
Thx for your detailed answer!

If i unterstand it correctly, then is the betsize not a crucial factor for the overall EV at most of the boards - is that right?
That is correct.
The quality of play is far more important than the sizing of the bets.
Just about any bet size seems to perform similarly to any other bet size, as long as you play GTO.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Flokati View Post
When the answer is yes, is there another way to check the "best" betsize? "best" means not in the sense for the overall ev, rather for Villains play. Perhaps some Boards with different betsizes have the same overall EV, but one betsize is harder do defend as one other betsize.
The main thing to consider, is in practical play, versus which bet sizes do your opponents seem to make the biggest mistakes? Given the fact that your opponents don't play GTO, and are inherent to making mistakes, the best strategy will most likely be to try and put your opponents in a spot where the weak spots in their play are the most pronounced. This will however need to be derived from practical experience, as it can not be calculated mathematically.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Flokati View Post
When i use multiple betsizes in one tree and GTO+ prefers a certain size, can i assume that the preferred size is a good way to use this size only at this board?
When comparing the bet sizes separately, you will probably not find a significant difference in performance. Different bet sizes typically have a very comparable EV for any hand. Most likely the best approach will be to focus on using bet sizes that provoke the biggest mistakes by your opponents in actual play.

Last edited by scylla; 08-22-2018 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 08-24-2018, 01:38 AM   #7182
tuffspotz
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Scylla,

I'm wondering if you can explain to me why the EV of both players on the flop doesn't add up to the pot size exactly.
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Old 08-24-2018, 03:10 AM   #7183
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by tuffspotz View Post
Scylla,

I'm wondering if you can explain to me why the EV of both players on the flop doesn't add up to the pot size exactly.
It should, unless the situation is not zero sum. This will happen if rake is involved, or if it's a tournament. In CREV another exception might be in the case of using delete actions. In all other cases you should be able to calculate the overall EV for IP by using the weighed average of his EVs. The sum with OOPs EV should be the pot.

So for example, below, in 35.9% of the cases IP will have an EV of 12.67 and in 64.1% of the cases he will have an EV of 17.89. That makes his overall EV 35.9%*12.67+64.1%*17.89=16.02. The EV of OOP is 13.99. And their combined EV is therefore 16.02+13.99=30.01, which is the same as the pot. Admittedly there's a 1 cent difference, but this is due to rounding in the EV values and frequencies.

Should you indeed have a spot where you feel the EV of both players does not add up to the pot, then please send a savefile to support (or possible a screenshot).


Last edited by scylla; 08-24-2018 at 03:18 AM.
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Old 08-24-2018, 10:35 AM   #7184
Lovemetwice
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hy scylla,

in the database mode is it possible to put a weight on the different flop?

otherwise in the columns near the aggregate graphic it would be possible to write EV of each combo for every single flop of the database?

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Old 08-24-2018, 03:40 PM   #7185
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Re: CardRunnersEV

OK, Just bought the software and really plunged in never used solvers before so I have a real noob question:

Range 1 as oop in the inputs I did usually has the tree weighted heavily towards a check, where can I choose to make Range 1 to reflect a strategy if he is the preflop aggressor?
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Old 08-24-2018, 06:15 PM   #7186
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by Dude-Bun View Post
OK, Just bought the software and really plunged in never used solvers before so I have a real noob question:

Range 1 as oop in the inputs I did usually has the tree weighted heavily towards a check, where can I choose to make Range 1 to reflect a strategy if he is the preflop aggressor?
From a GTO standpoint it doesn't matter who was the preflop aggressor. When making decisions in poker, it's never relevant which past actions have led to a certain spot; the cards have no memory in that respect. That being said, in most cases you will find that the preflop aggressor will bet out pretty frequently in a GTO solution, in particular on flops with high cards. For this however, the GTO algorithm doesn't need to know which actions have taken place preflop. If everything is as it should, the preflop aggressor will typically have a stronger range as compared to the player who was passive preflop (for this look at the preflop equity for both player's ranges). On most flops this will mean that OOP will be able to continue his aggression. If in your tree OOP checks frequently, then I would expect that most likely IP's range has hit the flop. For example, on low connected flops, such as 8h9hTs the player who was passive preflop has often hit with most of his range, and the preflop aggressor will need to cease his aggression. In the situation that you're referring to, did OOP perhaps have a high equity preflop, which dropped once the flop came? Or, alternatively, did IP perhaps have a strong preflop range as well? If you want me to take a look at the hand, then please send a savefile to support.

Last edited by scylla; 08-24-2018 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 08-24-2018, 06:40 PM   #7187
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovemetwice View Post
in the database mode is it possible to put a weight on the different flop?
Such a feature is currently not available, but we can consider it for later releases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovemetwice View Post
otherwise in the columns near the aggregate graphic it would be possible to write EV of each combo for every single flop of the database?

Under "Specific hand" you can select a hand.
The table will then display the data for that hand for every tree.


Last edited by scylla; 08-24-2018 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 08-25-2018, 12:17 AM   #7188
Dude-Bun
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Thank You so much Scylla, that makes perfect sense.

For future reference, how is a savefile created and what is the email for support ?
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Old 08-25-2018, 09:19 AM   #7189
Lovemetwice
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
Under "Specific hand" you can select a hand.
The table will then display the data for that hand for every tree.

Thanks for the answer!

I saw that, I was looking for the combo AQs or AQo, instead of having to search for every combination, but now I'm realizing that probably doesn't make that much sense
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Old 08-25-2018, 11:29 AM   #7190
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by Dude-Bun View Post
Thank You so much Scylla, that makes perfect sense.

For future reference, how is a savefile created and what is the email for support ?
For support, there's a contact form on the website.
And to create a savefile, go to "File->Save as …" in the menu.
Or press on Ctrl+S on your keyboard.

Last edited by scylla; 08-25-2018 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 08-26-2018, 06:47 PM   #7191
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Re: CardRunnersEV

When it comes to scripting abilities, is there anything GTO+ lacks that piosolver pro has?
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Old 08-27-2018, 11:48 AM   #7192
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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When it comes to scripting abilities, is there anything GTO+ lacks that piosolver pro has?
Not that I can think of. We offer the ability to create databases of solved trees, as well as a feature where GTO+ will solve all files in a given directory. With "basic" saves the solutions can be stored in very small savefiles; as a result, even entire databases will rarely exceed a disc size of more than a few dozen MB. To the best of my knowledge, our approach is far more flexible and easier to use than pio.

Last edited by scylla; 08-27-2018 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 08-27-2018, 03:18 PM   #7193
numberonedonk
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Scylla,

Thanks for making some awesome software.

I recently started with GTO+ and was wondering if there was any possibility of making a night/dark mode? I would imagine it's not a top priority but it would be a nice addition sometime down the road.

Either way thanks again and keep up the good work.
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Old 08-27-2018, 04:05 PM   #7194
Pedro Henrique
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hey scyla, (example situation) I solved a database with a lot of flops, but I would like to know which frequency the solver bets with overpair on Flop 1, 4, 6, 7, 8 for example, there is some way to filter these flops and then get an agregated report for them? Or I have to check one by one and use excel?

Enviado de meu XT1033 usando o Tapatalk
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Old 08-27-2018, 08:38 PM   #7195
John Wang
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hey Scylla, one very small bug. Sometimes when i press the stop solver button, it keeps restarting calculation. This is when im parsing a folder full of gto files. Thanks.
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Old 08-28-2018, 04:41 AM   #7196
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by Pedro Henrique View Post
Hey scyla, (example situation) I solved a database with a lot of flops, but I would like to know which frequency the solver bets with overpair on Flop 1, 4, 6, 7, 8 for example, there is some way to filter these flops and then get an agregated report for them? Or I have to check one by one and use excel?

Enviado de meu XT1033 usando o Tapatalk
The best way that I can think of at the moment is to make a copy of the savefile and then delete all trees that you're not interested in. To delete trees, in the database under "Run solver", right-click them. Or right-click their icon in order to have them ignored in the report. I can look into further management functions for later releases.
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Old 08-28-2018, 04:42 AM   #7197
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by numberonedonk View Post
Scylla,

Thanks for making some awesome software.

I recently started with GTO+ and was wondering if there was any possibility of making a night/dark mode? I would imagine it's not a top priority but it would be a nice addition sometime down the road.

Either way thanks again and keep up the good work.
Ok, I'll see what we can do here.
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Old 08-28-2018, 04:45 AM   #7198
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Wang View Post
Hey Scylla, one very small bug. Sometimes when i press the stop solver button, it keeps restarting calculation. This is when im parsing a folder full of gto files. Thanks.
Ok, thank you for pointing that out.
I'll see if I can reproduce this issue.
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Old 08-28-2018, 10:34 AM   #7199
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Any hints about future features coming down the pipeline in the next (beta) releases, Scylla?
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Old 08-29-2018, 04:37 AM   #7200
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Any hints about future features coming down the pipeline in the next (beta) releases, Scylla?
I prefer to not discuss development in this thread, but there will be a small update within a few days with some minor bugfixes and a much higher framerate. The higher framerate should allow GTO+'s interface work better on systems with slower processors, as well as provide fluid functioning in case of extensively drawing very large trees.

Last edited by scylla; 08-29-2018 at 04:44 AM.
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