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Old 01-12-2018, 05:31 AM   #6526
scylla
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by SkepkA View Post
how to fill in, my need an example
"Add current tree" will add the tree that is currently active to the database. The input field allows you to enter the name with which it is displayed. An example of this is given in demonstration video 2, where we add the same tree, but with different stack sizes. I believe in the video we use the names "1bet", "2bet", "3bet", "4bet" and "5bet".

"Change all flops to" is when you are using a database where all trees have the same board, but, for example, different bet sizes (like in the example above). With this button you can set a different board for all of the trees in the database. Without this button you would need to build the database all over again.
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:31 AM   #6527
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by Joshua View Post
I really like the user interface on GTO+

If possible it would be great to be able to assign weights to the flops used in the database averaging reports.
I also think this could be a useful addition. Although to clarify, the weighting I'm referring to would be applied after the current calculations occur. For example, an Ax Kx Qx flop can be dealt 4 possible ways, but with a weight of 0.5 applied it would only be 2. This weight would also be applied after all blocker/range calculations have been considered. The reason for doing this would be so we can use the flop subsets discussed here to more accurately predict preflop EVs. To clarify further, Pio represents these weights as the total number of possible combos for a flop whilst Simple Postflop uses a multiplier.

Last edited by Siesta; 01-12-2018 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:32 PM   #6528
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by Siesta View Post
I also think this could be a useful addition. Although to clarify, the weighting I'm referring to would be applied after the current calculations occur. For example, an Ax Kx Qx flop can be dealt 4 possible ways, but with a weight of 0.5 applied it would only be 2. This weight would also be applied after all blocker/range calculations have been considered. The reason for doing this would be so we can use the flop subsets discussed here to more accurately predict preflop EVs. To clarify further, Pio represents these weights as the total number of possible combos for a flop whilst Simple Postflop uses a multiplier.
I agree with this. Pretty much spot on what I was trying to say.

Thanks for clarifying!
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:14 AM   #6529
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by Siesta View Post
I also think this could be a useful addition. Although to clarify, the weighting I'm referring to would be applied after the current calculations occur. For example, an Ax Kx Qx flop can be dealt 4 possible ways, but with a weight of 0.5 applied it would only be 2. This weight would also be applied after all blocker/range calculations have been considered. The reason for doing this would be so we can use the flop subsets discussed here to more accurately predict preflop EVs. To clarify further, Pio represents these weights as the total number of possible combos for a flop whilst Simple Postflop uses a multiplier.
We actually do indeed already weigh by the number of possible combos for a flop. Also, in the future (in one or two months) we will also most likely offer default subsets of flops that adequately represent the entire possible range of flops. We may or may not apply additional weights there as well, depending on if it turns out if additional value can be gained from that. The default subset feature will also allow to manually set the weights of flops, so (very) advanced users should be able to do this if they want to use their own settings. So if I understand you correctly, then what you're looking for should be available shortly.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:19 AM   #6530
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Amazing, thank you!
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Old 01-13-2018, 01:16 PM   #6531
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Any plans for expanding aggregate tab in database distributions window to include turn/river frequencies?
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:16 PM   #6532
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by Matawazi View Post
Any plans for expanding aggregate tab in database distributions window to include turn/river frequencies?
We can certainly consider this feature for future releases. And at the very least this data is definitely available in the engine. It would require some changes to the interface though. For the moment, we are working on v108, which will offer predefs in the preflop menu. So this will have to be after that.

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Old 01-14-2018, 05:13 PM   #6533
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Looking for CREV expert for coaching, PM me for details.
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Old 01-15-2018, 02:42 AM   #6534
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by scylla View Post
We can certainly consider this feature for future releases. And at the very least this data is definitely available in the engine
Great, given that CREV is already showing average turn/river frequencies before those cards being dealt. It would be nice to also implement it in GTO+ in some way.
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Old 01-15-2018, 04:50 AM   #6535
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by Matawazi View Post
Great, given that CREV is already showing average turn/river frequencies before those cards being dealt. It would be nice to also implement it in GTO+ in some way.
The main challenge would be an interface one, given that we would need to alter the tree view to one where you can navigate to the turn. Also, the aggregate frequency data would need to be stored in the trees after solving. None of it is particularly difficult, but it's just one of those things that takes about one or two weeks of development time. We will deal with all such remaining details after v108.
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Old 01-15-2018, 08:25 AM   #6536
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Hey scylla,

Are there any plans at any stage to add the ability to solve for preflop like with Pio and Simple?

Last edited by St3nsy; 01-15-2018 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 01-16-2018, 06:50 AM   #6537
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Is it possible to save a game tree?
I want to use the same tree but with different ranges.
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Old 01-16-2018, 06:53 AM   #6538
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by St3nsy View Post
Hey scylla,

Are there any plans at any stage to add the ability to solve for preflop like with Pio and Simple?
For the moment we are focussed on the upcoming update v108, which will offer predefs in the preflop menu. We can look into which other functionality to add after that. A preflop solver is very resource intensive though, so only very few of our users will actually be able to run it. I suspect that most users are better off just using their historic performance from trackers to figure out how hands should be played preflop. With this data you will get strategies that actually match the games that you play. In the end, exploititive play trumps non-exploitable play. Furthermore, with tracker data you will also get reliable historic data on multiway hands, while a preflop solver can not be used for anything other than heads-up. Paradoxically, heads-up is the most read-dependent part of poker, so it's exactly there were you would least need a solver. Should your opponent be of a quality where you would need to resort to non-exploitable play, then that may actually be a game where you're better off leaving the table. It's particularly for postflop play where a solver has most value, given that there, for just about any spot, the historic sample size will be virtually non-existent.

Last edited by scylla; 01-16-2018 at 06:59 AM.
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Old 01-16-2018, 06:55 AM   #6539
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by HarryPH View Post
Is it possible to save a game tree?
I want to use the same tree but with different ranges.
Yes, for that just use the same tree, change the board/ranges, go to "Build tree", click on the tab "Rebuild" and click on "Rebuild with current settings".
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Old 01-16-2018, 10:40 AM   #6540
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
For the moment we are focussed on the upcoming update v108, which will offer predefs in the preflop menu. We can look into which other functionality to add after that. A preflop solver is very resource intensive though, so only very few of our users will actually be able to run it. I suspect that most users are better off just using their historic performance from trackers to figure out how hands should be played preflop. With this data you will get strategies that actually match the games that you play. In the end, exploititive play trumps non-exploitable play. Furthermore, with tracker data you will also get reliable historic data on multiway hands, while a preflop solver can not be used for anything other than heads-up. Paradoxically, heads-up is the most read-dependent part of poker, so it's exactly there were you would least need a solver. Should your opponent be of a quality where you would need to resort to non-exploitable play, then that may actually be a game where you're better off leaving the table. It's particularly for postflop play where a solver has most value, given that there, for just about any spot, the historic sample size will be virtually non-existent.
Well said. Actually at the moment you need to invest 1000$ for PIO edge and probably same amount to run it on a cloud to solve preflop HU.Or to invest 500$ for Monker(their support is terrible and I am not sure how accurate is this program solving almost everything preflop postflop, multiway,PLO,PLO8 etc.) and some amount for powerful PC and solve whatever u want.CREV + GTO+ r best investment money wise.
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Old 01-17-2018, 03:04 AM   #6541
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Re: CardRunnersEV

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
For the moment we are focussed on the upcoming update v108, which will offer predefs in the preflop menu. We can look into which other functionality to add after that. A preflop solver is very resource intensive though, so only very few of our users will actually be able to run it. I suspect that most users are better off just using their historic performance from trackers to figure out how hands should be played preflop. With this data you will get strategies that actually match the games that you play. In the end, exploititive play trumps non-exploitable play. Furthermore, with tracker data you will also get reliable historic data on multiway hands, while a preflop solver can not be used for anything other than heads-up. Paradoxically, heads-up is the most read-dependent part of poker, so it's exactly there were you would least need a solver. Should your opponent be of a quality where you would need to resort to non-exploitable play, then that may actually be a game where you're better off leaving the table. It's particularly for postflop play where a solver has most value, given that there, for just about any spot, the historic sample size will be virtually non-existent.
Okay, thank you for the very detailed reply scylla, much appreciated as always
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Old 01-17-2018, 08:26 AM   #6542
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Re: CardRunnersEV

What would be really useful would be a training module. Basically you could load up a bunch of precomputed solutions and it would deal you random hands and you'd play the spots and get a score at the end. You could sell it as an addon to the main program.

Something similar to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNu3nTkdXbE
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Old Yesterday, 09:20 PM   #6543
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Re: CardRunnersEV

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Originally Posted by getmeoffcompletely View Post
What would be really useful would be a training module. Basically you could load up a bunch of precomputed solutions and it would deal you random hands and you'd play the spots and get a score at the end. You could sell it as an addon to the main program.

Something similar to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNu3nTkdXbE
Yeah that would be really usefull.
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Old Today, 06:52 AM   #6544
mejormus
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Re: CardRunnersEV

An important advance in game theory has been published. See here

https://deepmind.com/blog/game-theor...i-agent-games/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-19194-4
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