Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Commercial Software Discussion of commercial gambling-related / poker software & commercial graphics modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-16-2009, 05:12 AM   #626
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by I.M. Baked View Post
how do you save the graphs?

thanks again

You can export them to Excel with the yellow excel button.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2009, 09:23 AM   #627
Powers_That_Be
adept
 
Powers_That_Be's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everyone's Solid
Posts: 978
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

what the most efficient way to compare the EV of taking different lines? Are there any plans for something similar to razor's most exploitive line tool?
Powers_That_Be is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2009, 10:58 AM   #628
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powers_That_Be View Post
what the most efficient way to compare the EV of taking different lines? Are there any plans for something similar to razor's most exploitive line tool?
I'll take care of it.

Here's how I see it working.
You hover over a decision, press Alt+E and StoxEV assigns every starting hand under the action with its highest EV.

Should work, right?

Last edited by scylla; 03-17-2009 at 11:06 AM.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2009, 01:26 PM   #629
Powers_That_Be
adept
 
Powers_That_Be's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everyone's Solid
Posts: 978
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

I don't really understand what you are saying. How would I find the "most exploitive line" using that.
Powers_That_Be is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2009, 02:16 PM   #630
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powers_That_Be View Post
I don't really understand what you are saying. How would I find the "most exploitive line" using that.
I'm adding it to the software right now.
Should be up in a couple of days.

Here's what you do.
You make the tree with the raise/call/fold lines in it.
You hover over your last decision, press Alt+X and StoxEV will assign all starting hands to the line with the highest EV.

If there is a decision before this where you also want to do this, you can work back towards it.



It's the exact same thing as is already possible for raise or fold decisions as described here:
http://www.stoxev.com/exploitable.htm

This new version however should allow for some more advanced research, for instance maximum exploititive riverplay against villains strategy with raise/call/fold lines.


I'm also just done with the video manual part 3. I'll add a demonstration of this proces in that.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2009, 05:29 PM   #631
d2themfi
veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,263
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

would their be anyway to compare the ev of different betsizes, which each get different opponent responses?

For example, say I am HU on the river and I want to compare the ev of different betsizes. Each betsize will have some value bets and some bluffs, and to each different betsize our opponent will respond differently. For example to a 1/3 psb, he will call and raise us much more frequently, then if I make a psb, even tho he gets to the river with the same range in both cases.

Is there a way to graph the ev of different betsizes, when each betsize illicits a different opponent response?
d2themfi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2009, 05:56 PM   #632
MauMau
old hand
 
MauMau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Franconia in Germany
Posts: 1,711
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

gonna check this 1 out -tytyty
MauMau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2009, 06:39 PM   #633
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by d2themfi View Post
would their be anyway to compare the ev of different betsizes, which each get different opponent responses?

For example, say I am HU on the river and I want to compare the ev of different betsizes. Each betsize will have some value bets and some bluffs, and to each different betsize our opponent will respond differently. For example to a 1/3 psb, he will call and raise us much more frequently, then if I make a psb, even tho he gets to the river with the same range in both cases.

Is there a way to graph the ev of different betsizes, when each betsize illicits a different opponent response?
Working on it right now.
Should be done by the end of the month.
It's going to be a one button push kind of thing.
You'll need to enter villain's strategy in a tree, press the "counter-strategy" button and StoxEV will work out the optimal counter-strategy.

No better counter-strategy will exist (unless you're working in Monte Carlo mode, in which case there will be insignificantly small errors).


It will also work for different betsizes, as long as you enter villain's reaction to all betsizes.


This will also mean that the method that I described earlier for finding counter-strategies (http://www.stoxev.com/exploitable.htm) will from now on be completely automated.

Last edited by scylla; 03-17-2009 at 06:45 PM.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 05:23 AM   #634
d2themfi
veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,263
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

that is awesome
d2themfi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 05:38 AM   #635
d2themfi
veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,263
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
Working on it right now.
Should be done by the end of the month.
It's going to be a one button push kind of thing.
You'll need to enter villain's strategy in a tree, press the "counter-strategy" button and StoxEV will work out the optimal counter-strategy.

No better counter-strategy will exist (unless you're working in Monte Carlo mode, in which case there will be insignificantly small errors).


It will also work for different betsizes, as long as you enter villain's reaction to all betsizes.


This will also mean that the method that I described earlier for finding counter-strategies (http://www.stoxev.com/exploitable.htm) will from now on be completely automated.

Was thinking about this more.. This is all amazing. Do you think it would be possible to do this for both players at the same time?

Basically meaning, would it be possible to figure out what each players minimax strategy is, maybe even just for one street, say the river. Basically figuring out an optimal strategy pair I guess.

Would that be possible, or undoable do to lack of computational power in the program?
d2themfi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 08:24 AM   #636
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by d2themfi View Post
Would that be possible, or undoable do to lack of computational power in the program?
You're talking about unexploitable strategies?
Possible, but computationally very intensive.
The results wouldn't be perfect, but close enough.

Don't know if I'm going there though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by d2themfi View Post
... maybe even just for one street...
This exploitative game would be a one street thing.
For instance it can tell you which holecards to play and how preflop if you've given villain's preflop+postflop strategy on an unknown board.

Or for riverplay, on a known river, given villain's strategy.

Or for the turnplay, where you've given villain's strategy for both the turn and the unknown rivers.


Basically, the exploititive function would give you the maximum yielding counter-strategy for the last street where the holecards are known at the push of a button.

Last edited by scylla; 03-18-2009 at 08:30 AM.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 10:17 AM   #637
WillyT
veteran
 
WillyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Wood Shed
Posts: 2,301
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Hey scylla,

My program didn't auto-update fyi. I'm still running 2.2.2 and I see that 2.2.3 is up on your webpage.

Pretty amazing new features to come. I'm really looking forward to it!
WillyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 11:47 AM   #638
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyT View Post
Hey scylla,

My program didn't auto-update fyi. I'm still running 2.2.2 and I see that 2.2.3 is up on your webpage.
Could you please tell me what it says in the version.txt file in the installation directory?
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 01:14 PM   #639
WillyT
veteran
 
WillyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Wood Shed
Posts: 2,301
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
Could you please tell me what it says in the version.txt file in the installation directory?
"223
123456
987654"

So I guess I am on 2.2.3 after all. Under Help>About StoxEV it's still showing 2.2.2
WillyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 01:17 PM   #640
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyT View Post
"223
123456
987654"

So I guess I am on 2.2.3 after all. Under Help>About StoxEV it's still showing 2.2.2
Yeah, I forget to change that sometimes.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2009, 05:30 PM   #641
d2themfi
veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,263
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
You're talking about unexploitable strategies?
Possible, but computationally very intensive.
The results wouldn't be perfect, but close enough.

Don't know if I'm going there though.
Yea, I was basically thinking that if you in fact are able to design this feature that figures out the Maximal exploitative strategy vs a fixed counter strategy, that maybe it would be possible to design a feature that would make both players try to maximally exploit eachother, say on the river, when ranges, potsize, stack size are all specified. This would obviously take exponentially more computational power, than just figuring out 1 persons maximal strategy vs anothers.

So in theory it could be just a single button also, where you put in a known board(all cards), and fill in the game tree up to the river for both players, then push the button, and it figures out the optimal strategies for both players. Would be similar in function to the unexploitable shoving feature, except, that the strategies probably would include all strategic options and various betisizes

It would be a great feature to add, but I can see how it would be impossible, or not worth your time


Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
This exploitative game would be a one street thing.
For instance it can tell you which holecards to play and how preflop if you've given villain's preflop+postflop strategy on an unknown board.

Or for riverplay, on a known river, given villain's strategy.

Or for the turnplay, where you've given villain's strategy for both the turn and the unknown rivers.


Basically, the exploititive function would give you the maximum yielding counter-strategy for the last street where the holecards are known at the push of a button.
But this feature is definitely awesome, looking forward to it. It should cut down on the amount of time needed to analyze a situation greatly
d2themfi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2009, 02:37 PM   #642
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Ok, all the coding is done.
Works like a charm.
I hope I'll have time to write a short online manual and put the new version online within a couple of days.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 10:16 AM   #643
Powers_That_Be
adept
 
Powers_That_Be's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everyone's Solid
Posts: 978
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
Ok, all the coding is done.
Works like a charm.
I hope I'll have time to write a short online manual and put the new version online within a couple of days.
sounds great man. can't wait.
Powers_That_Be is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2009, 12:43 PM   #644
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Ok, short manual is online:
http://www.stoxev.com/exploiting_automatic.htm

I'll post the new version in a couple of days.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 03:16 AM   #645
WillyT
veteran
 
WillyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Wood Shed
Posts: 2,301
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

How much do I have to pay you to start restricting access to the program? (semi-serious)
WillyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 04:46 PM   #646
scylla
Pooh-Bah
 
scylla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,764
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyT View Post
How much do I have to pay you to start restricting access to the program? (semi-serious)
Let me know when you are 100% serious.

That wood shed you list as your location sounds sweeeeeeeet.
scylla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2009, 05:09 PM   #647
funkyj
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
funkyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: working without a 27b/6
Posts: 6,416
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyT View Post
How much do I have to pay you to start restricting access to the program? (semi-serious)
Yeah, stoxEV is like a poker WMD. We need the IAEA to fight proliferation of stoxEV!
funkyj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 12:21 AM   #648
WillyT
veteran
 
WillyT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Wood Shed
Posts: 2,301
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
Let me know when you are 100% serious.

That wood shed you list as your location sounds sweeeeeeeet.
My level of seriousness seriously depends on the cost! Throw out a number.

I'm in the woodshed because I feel I need to learn as much as possible from your program before everyone else does too.
WillyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 04:50 AM   #649
d2themfi
veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,263
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

i mean it would suck big time to make stoxev totally private... I <3 it, but if you did I would just buy pokerrazor. Its a lot more clunky, and it take some time to get used to, but its only like 50$ or something and functions about the same as stoxev

Seriously Stoxev is awesome, but why not just sell licenses for like 100$, im sure u could make as much or more by doing that over the next few years
d2themfi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2009, 06:02 AM   #650
MinusEV
Giftastic!
 
MinusEV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Don't trust men who walk with canes
Posts: 11,591
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

99%+ of the players out there have no idea this program even exits and 99%+ of those that do know of it would never invest the time into digging into it anyway, so I'm pretty sure you can stop worrying about this program ruining the game...


Edit: that said, I certainly feel it's a program you could/should charge for. While I think it's a program that appeals to a fairly small segment of players, it's a segment that is serious enough about their game that they wouldn't mind paying a bit for it.
MinusEV is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online