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Old 02-24-2009, 09:31 PM   #576
I.M. Baked
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

i just got a usb memory stick and i was wondering if there is a way to back up my saved trees on it? 1Gb if that matters
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:32 PM   #577
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

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Originally Posted by I.M. Baked View Post
i just got a usb memory stick and i was wondering if there is a way to back up my saved trees on it? 1Gb if that matters
Go to C:/program files/StoxEV/StoxEV/StoxEV and copy paste all .stx files.
Should do the trick.

Last edited by scylla; 02-24-2009 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 02-25-2009, 12:32 AM   #578
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

I was looking to do a lot of analysis of HUNL using StoxEV. If anyone would like to work together and do some analysis together and separate (to then share results), shoot me a PM.
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Old 02-25-2009, 11:36 AM   #579
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

why does the program not show preflop EV when you define the flop cards? Can it?
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Old 02-25-2009, 11:37 AM   #580
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

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why does the program not show preflop EV when you define the flop cards? Can it?
Turn on "math engine->merge monte carlo and math".
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Old 02-25-2009, 12:45 PM   #581
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

why was this changed? didnt it used to show this preflop EV by default? isnt that the EV of the whole hand?
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Old 02-25-2009, 01:13 PM   #582
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

It's always been like that.

The monte carlo engine calculates both pre- and postflop if a board is given, the math engine only does postflop. This is because your EV preflop given that you know what comes on the flop is information that's not of any practical value, while it would take the math engine too much time for the calculations.

If you use the option to merge the results of the two engines then the monte carlo engine will be used to suplement everything the math engine couldn't/didn't do.
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Old 02-25-2009, 02:18 PM   #583
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

I've been messing around with the unexploitable shoving range tool and it's really cool. I'm not that familiar with how to use the variable function. Would it be possible to set the stack size as a variable between 40bbs and 70bbs with increments of 5bbs and then come up with the unexploitable shoving range for each stacksize within the same StoxEV file?

OR could I set the opening range as a variable between 20-40% and then come up with the unexploitable shoving range given a constant stacksize?

If this is possible, how can I do it? Thanks.
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Old 02-25-2009, 04:30 PM   #584
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

No, I'm afraid the variables won't be of much use to you in unexploitable shoving.

If you want to make a graph of for instance a varying stacksize you'll have to do it manually.
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Old 02-25-2009, 07:06 PM   #585
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

is there a way to say, bets the turn if an A,K,or Q rolls off?
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Old 02-25-2009, 07:09 PM   #586
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Yes, it's called the layer system.
Check the list of contents of the video manual.

If you can't find it there go to "help->start manual" and select "dealing with different turn or rivercards".
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:15 PM   #587
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

i'm trying to figure out the ev of calling this river if villan's range is top 30%.

POKERSTARS GAME #25364168232: TOURNAMENT #143733966, $22+$1 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - MATCH ROUND I, LEVEL III (25/50) - 2009/02/26 2:17:24 ET
Table '143733966 1' 2-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: nhbMIKE (1555 in chips)
Seat 2: KeysOfCyprus (1445 in chips)
KeysOfCyprus: posts small blind 25
nhbMIKE: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to nhbMIKE [Qc Th]
KeysOfCyprus: raises 50 to 100
nhbMIKE: calls 50
*** FLOP *** [6c Jh Ts]
nhbMIKE: checks
KeysOfCyprus: checks
*** TURN *** [6c Jh Ts] [Ah]
nhbMIKE: checks
KeysOfCyprus: bets 100
nhbMIKE: calls 100
*** RIVER *** [6c Jh Ts Ah] [Kh]
nhbMIKE: bets 150
KeysOfCyprus: raises 1095 to 1245 and is all-in
nhbMIKE: ?

i cant figure out how to tree it, someone please help me.
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Old 02-27-2009, 04:40 AM   #588
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

you have to also determine his range pf, range for flop checks, range for turn bets, and then use the top 30% of whatever range he gets on river
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Old 02-27-2009, 05:21 AM   #589
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

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Originally Posted by greg nice View Post
you have to also determine his range pf, range for flop checks, range for turn bets, and then use the top 30% of whatever range he gets on river
This.
Since this is a tournament however, you'll also need to set the prize structure.

As a sidenote, on the river on a 3-flush 1-gap-straight board I doubt villain is pushing with his top 30%.
Marginal made hands are much more likely to go for a cheap showdown.
His range for raising the river is polarized between nut-like hands and blufs.
The question you should be trying to answer here is "is this a bluf/Q often enough?".
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Old 02-27-2009, 01:34 PM   #590
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

i just used thirty as a generic number, i dont think he's shoving with his top 30%. i also know he's not getting to the river w/ his entire preflop range. i think he's shoving >=strait. this is the tree i made, please tell me where i can improve on it.



it shows the ev of calling at 75, like i said i know he doesnt actualy have his top 30% there and he also has a calling range too but i left that out because i know i only facing a shove here and i only need to know the ev of calling his shove. so am i on the right track? and thanks for your help guys.

edit: i've also added some bluffs in his shove range in other versions of this tree.


double edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by scylla View Post
Since this is a tournament however, you'll also need to set the prize structure.
i figured it wasnt that important because i only play hu sngs and i only want to know chip ev and dont care so much about $ev. am i way off base with this? is it going to make a big difference in my plays?

Last edited by I.M. Baked; 02-27-2009 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 02-28-2009, 08:21 AM   #591
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
Originally Posted by I.M. Baked View Post
i just used thirty as a generic number, i dont think he's shoving with his top 30%. i also know he's not getting to the river w/ his entire preflop range. i think he's shoving >=strait. this is the tree i made, please tell me where i can improve on it.

In the way the tree is set up right now villain arives at the river with 100% of the range with which he started preflop.
You should probably start the tree at the flop/turn and let villain fold the appropriate hands.


Quote:
Originally Posted by I.M. Baked View Post
i figured it wasnt that important because i only play hu sngs and i only want to know chip ev and dont care so much about $ev. am i way off base with this? is it going to make a big difference in my plays?
That's fine then.
HU tournaments have cash game dynamics, so no ICM conversions are required.
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Old 02-28-2009, 01:12 PM   #592
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

thanks again
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Old 03-03-2009, 08:05 AM   #593
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Scylla, I have quite a few HUSNG hand histories on absolute poker. Do you still need those?
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Old 03-03-2009, 08:45 AM   #594
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

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Scylla, I have quite a few HUSNG hand histories on absolute poker. Do you still need those?
I think I got CEREUS covered now, let me know if there's something that doesn't import.
Thanks for the offer!
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Old 03-04-2009, 02:01 AM   #595
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Oh...sorry I didn't realize AP was suported...my bad
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:11 PM   #596
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

scylla, how come for unexploitable shoves some shoves are -EV? calls always seem to be +EV.

however if we adjusted the shoves to not include the -EV shoves then presumably the caller would call tighter which would then let us shove a bit wider. so just removing the -EV shoves doesn't seem like a solution. any idea what's up with this?
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:26 PM   #597
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

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scylla, how come for unexploitable shoves some shoves are -EV? calls always seem to be +EV.

however if we adjusted the shoves to not include the -EV shoves then presumably the caller would call tighter which would then let us shove a bit wider. so just removing the -EV shoves doesn't seem like a solution. any idea what's up with this?
The caller's calling range is defined as all hands that are +EV.

Given that definition StoxEV figures out which shoving ranges gives the highest overall EV for the shover.
This shoving range has to include some -EV hands which serve to widen the caller's calling range.
It's an equilibrium thing.

All in all, I'm confident that there exists no shoving range that has substantially larger EV than the one calculated by StoxEV. Feel free to try to find a significantly better shoving range. Should be impossible.

Last edited by scylla; 03-05-2009 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 03-05-2009, 02:56 PM   #598
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Ah I understand, very cool, thanks
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Old 03-06-2009, 12:05 AM   #599
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

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Originally Posted by scylla View Post
The caller's calling range is defined as all hands that are +EV.

Given that definition StoxEV figures out which shoving ranges gives the highest overall EV for the shover.
This shoving range has to include some -EV hands which serve to widen the caller's calling range.
It's an equilibrium thing.
Like in Mathematics of Poker when they talk about optimal bluffing frequency. With the appropriate bluff frequency to bet size ratio it does not matter what your opponent does. (OK, that is only true for the toy games that MoP uses but I think the idea is the same).
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Old 03-06-2009, 04:12 AM   #600
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

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Like in Mathematics of Poker when they talk about optimal bluffing frequency. With the appropriate bluff frequency to bet size ratio it does not matter what your opponent does. (OK, that is only true for the toy games that MoP uses but I think the idea is the same).
Small difference with MoP is that in StoxEV your bluffs have equity.
And all bluffs have a unique equity.
Shoving Q7o preflop as a bluff has a different equity from shoving K5o.

I'm pretty sure that MoP asumes bluffs to have 0% equity, which only applies to rivershoves.
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