Basing the ranking on EV is actually quite a different story.



If we have this tree and want the top percentages according to equity then we can accomplish this by treating them in the order 1 -> 2 -> 3. The order 3 -> 2 -> 1 would not work here. After all, if we work out the top% according to equity in 3 and then change the range in 2, the equities in 3 will change.

The problem with filtering for EV is that you will have this problem regardless of the order in which you treat hands. Whenever you make a change in one of the conditions, the ranking in the other conditions will change.

Now, it might still be possible to figure out a solution with some sort of learning algorithm here, but this would mean that sorting by equity would work really straightforward and fast, while sorting by EV would require a complex solving algorithm that would need to be run for quite some time to figure out a near-solution. And this would need to be done for every single EV run if there's been any change in the tree. I don't think that the efforts for such an algorithm (both from a programming perspective and on the end of the user) can be justified if almost the exact same thing can be accomplished by ranking according to equity.

Another advantage of filtering by equity is that it always behaves as expected, while filtering by EV can lead to all sorts of weird effects.

For example, see the pic below where a player has quite a few hands of EV=0:



If you were to filter according to the top 50% according to EV here then quite a few hands that have an EV of zero would need to be picked randomly. Also, QTs, JTs and 22 would be left out, while they are most likely actually superior to the 0 EV hands. You will never have these kinds of issues when filtering for equity.

For example, filtering by EV can easily lead to ranges like in the pic below. When it comes to dynamic filtering, I think that equity is the preferable option, given that it's fast and there's never any spots where it works differently from what you would expect.

Hello Scylla,
First of all, this software is unbelievable, I love it!

I got a question:
I try to figure it out by myself for couple of hours, but still couldn't get it.

http://ppt.cc/HF0hl

how do you set the preflop ranges like this, I find it in the demo file, but don't know how to do it by myself.

also,
http://ppt.cc/dzlPf

What's the different between this two kinds of preflop ranges setting, beside that the first one is more good-looking?



Regards,

Aaron Chang

In the startup screen select "Start tree: Flop":




I can't really tell from that screenshot which preflop settings you're talking about. One thing I do notice that you've set the blinds to 0, which should probably be something like 0.5/1 or 1/2. To edit the blinds press Ctrl+F1 or click on the "Blinds+rake" button in the bottom+left of the screen.

Thank you for the quick reply!

What I want to ask is:

What's the different between "starting the tree from the flop" and "start the tree from the preflop without fold action". Given both of them have the same ranges.

I reckon they are the same, I am going to test it.

Thanks

That should be the same thing.

Hi,

could you make the gto frequencies not absolute, people are interested in what action should be taken that specific branch, fold 45% xr 15% call 40%, not figure out they first opened that hand with a 60% frequency , then called flop with 40% frequency etc. ... to intuitively understand the %-s on turn and river play.

developing an easy to comprehend GUI makes CREV the #1 all-rounder tool for sure.

Hi,

Here are a few questions from a CREV noob :

Let's say I am stealing from BTN with A2o, I min-raise and get called by the BB who defends 100% here.
The flop comes A73rb and BB checks which he does 100% of the time.

Can CREV tell me which action (bet or Xback) has the best EV here?
Am I obliged to set every possible postflop branch (whose number is infinite)?
Do you have a .stx example for such a simple spot?
Is there a tutorial vid that deals with such a simple spot?

Thanks

another (very different) question regarding the postflop condition menu :
I have created a category of hands which is "the Cbetting hands", including 10 different conditions.
When editing the conditions of a Cbet action, is there any way to set this category in 1 time for the player's action?
Or am I obliged to add the 10 conditions 1 by 1?

Could you be a bit more specific which percentages you are talking about here please?

You can probably just use the equilibrium tool for this.

First set up the spot you've just described:



Right-click on Button's decision for the subtree wizard and create either a 1bet, 2bet or 3bet tree.

Then run the solver until it's down a few % of the pot.

The solver should converge to either betting or checking pretty quickly here, so you probably won't have to bother to solve to too much accuracy.

For this create the list of conditions.
Then right-click on "edit conditions" at the bottom of the list of conditions.
This will bring up the multi-condition menu where you can store your conditions as a single condition.

For more on this please watch the video "The multi-condition menu" under "For intermediate users" in "Help->Video manual".

Is there a way of having multiple conditions preflop.

The aim is to create a flexible preflop polar strategy.

suppose use one variable to create a value raising range, another variable for a flatting range, and a third for a bluff raise - it would be really good if we can have the two conditions in one branch??

/Sorry highlighted the wrong range preflop, but isnt relevant, you get my point
Currently looking at a flop action J5ss is 5% bet and 45% check , that equals 100% because J5ss is in the preflop range at 50% frequency.

Im sure people dont want to see turn or river spots , where some action is taken 2% of the time , then go back to the previous street etc. to figure out how much should the 100% total be.

You are definetly familiar with other gto program interfaces, they deliver the practical output.

You can store preflop conditions with the predef menu if that's what you're referring to:

The next update should have an absolute/relative toggle in that menu (I haven't gotten to it yet, but it should be there shortly). I think that that should accomplish what you're asking for.

purchased a new license and have yet to be emailed the code. paypal payment was from s*****8*@yahoo.com

Thanks for the response.

What I'm trying to do is have villain open, and then hero defence is:

Raise - villain PFR * x% = var #1 (value bet) and raise villain PFR x z% (light 3bet) = var #3
Call - Villaiin PFR x y% = var #2

Then only way I can do this (keeping the formulas) is to have a different branch for the value bet and the light 3bet - which isn't ideal as I want the liht 3 bet and the value bet in the same branch.

Ideally I would like to be able to have the range preflop to be able to be set on more than one variable.

Hopefully this makes sense

I don't yet quite understand what you mean, but is it possibly like in this savefile?
(import in CardRunnersEV with Ctrl+I)

Villain raises with the top variable #1% and hero 3bets with the top #2%?
Here I have set #1 = 50% and #2 = #1 * 50%.
So villain raises the top 50% and hero 3bets 25%.
Whenever #1 is changed #2 will change accordingly.

Please ignore the fold after BB 3bets.
I just chose the simplest possible way to finish up the tree.


If I understand you correctly you want to value raise with the top #2% and bluf with the remaining top #3%? If #3>#2 then you should just 3bet with the top #3%, given that it will include the top #2% anyhow.
(I've changed #1 to #2 to avoid confusion)

I've taken care of this and replied to your mail.

Hello, thank you for the previous answers.

Another question : once I have done a (complex) tree, is it possible to export the list of possible branches with the frequency for each branch happening and the EV of each branch (a branch being the sequence of all actions from flop to showdown)?

Example :
branch1 : Flop_Hero Bets_V Folds -> Freq = 55% -> EV = 6bb
branch2 : Flop_Hero Bets_V Raises_Hero Folds -> Freq = 15% -> EV = -7bb
branch3 : Flop_Hero Bets_V Calls_Turn_Hero Bets_V Folds -> Freq = 25% -> EV = 10bb
etc... (there might be 50 branches or more)

If it's not possible to export this list, is it possible to find these 2 informations for each branch in the tree?

There is no function for this, no.


First perform an EV calc (F7).
For the EV, mouse over the branch. The popup will show the EV.
And the frequency is already displayed in the tree for each branch.

You mean the frequency of each action in one branch right?
But the frequency of the all branch happening (which is made of the multiplication of the frequencies of all the actions in the branch) is not displayed?

another question : is there any general option allowing us to set :
bet sizing = 75% of the pot
Raise sizing = 3* bet sizing
for the whole tree?
this would allow us to change the sizings in the whole tree in 1 click?

Can you give an example of what you're looking for here?

For this, when adding or editing an action enter "0.75p".
I did just notice though that for adding an action this only works if you click on the decision node to add the action.
I'll fix that for the next release.


I suppose you could use variables for that.
Set #1=10 as the betsize and #2=3*#1 as the raise size.
See the savefile below: