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 10-11-2008, 05:15 PM #451 craig1120 veteran   Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,137 Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released*** One more quick question: I was running a situation with button vs BB and the final EV for \$5/\$10 blinds was button=\$15.45 and BB= -\$2.40. For BB does this include the \$10 blind he posted? So, would the actual EV of his strategy be \$7.60?
10-11-2008, 05:21 PM   #452
scylla
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
 Originally Posted by craig1120 One more quick question: I was running a situation with button vs BB and the final EV for \$5/\$10 blinds was button=\$15.45 and BB= -\$2.40. For BB does this include the \$10 blind he posted? So, would the actual EV of his strategy be \$7.60?
The BB's strategy of -\$2.40 is calculated AFTER he's posted his blind. The blind is considered as belonging to the pot and not to him.

Therefore on average he looses \$12.40 in this hand compared to his stack before posting.

 10-11-2008, 05:22 PM #453 craig1120 veteran   Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2,137 Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released*** That makes sense. Thanks.
10-11-2008, 05:24 PM   #454
scylla
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
 Originally Posted by craig1120 That makes sense. Thanks.
Ok, and once again, please mail me that savefile. I want to know what we're talking about here when you say EV is not calculated.

By the way, are you running the StoxEVmain.exe file as admin (asuming you use Vista of course)? If not, try if it works if you do so. You'll need to manually set it (it's not the same as the StoxEV.exe file, so you need to go to the program directory for this).

10-11-2008, 06:11 PM   #455
craig1120
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
 Originally Posted by scylla Ok, and once again, please mail me that savefile. I want to know what we're talking about here when you say EV is not calculated. By the way, are you running the StoxEVmain.exe file as admin (asuming you use Vista of course)? If not, try if it works if you do so. You'll need to manually set it (it's not the same as the StoxEV.exe file, so you need to go to the program directory for this).
Ok I manually went to the StoxEVmain like you said then right click "run as administrator," then reopened the tree I was working on, rechecked "use speedup", pressed F7 and didn't work. But once again, if I uncheck it then works fine.

Can you explain to me how to email you the save file?

10-11-2008, 06:16 PM   #456
scylla
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
 Originally Posted by craig1120 Ok I manually went to the StoxEVmain like you said then right click "run as administrator," then reopened the tree I was working on, rechecked "use speedup", pressed F7 and didn't work. But once again, if I uncheck it then works fine. Can you explain to me how to email you the save file?
Just save the file to some location on your harddrive and mail it to me at stoxpoker_ev@hotmail.com.

 10-11-2008, 06:25 PM #457 scylla Carpal \'Tunnel     Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 6,263 Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released*** Ah, thx for the savefile. I see the problem. Press F9 to toggle to EV. There seems to be a problem with absolute mode ...
10-13-2008, 04:28 PM   #458
Slim Pickens
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
 Originally Posted by scylla Ok, I just updated the ICM tool and removed the old F11 tool. I'll post the update somewhere around half this month.
Cool. If there is an update, any ICM-calculated equities should be displayed to 4 places. I think it's up to the MTT people to know when an estimated equity isn't that precise.

10-13-2008, 06:27 PM   #459
scylla
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Slim Pickens Cool. If there is an update, any ICM-calculated equities should be displayed to 4 places. I think it's up to the MTT people to know when an estimated equity isn't that precise.
So ... 39.38 would be enough then ... right?

I've done my fair share of manual ICM calculations and I can't imagine needing more accuracy than that.

The main problem with the F11 tool was the truncation error. The ICM tool properly truncates.

10-13-2008, 07:47 PM   #460
Slim Pickens
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
 Originally Posted by scylla So ... 39.38 would be enough then ... right?
Yes. That is fine.

 11-02-2008, 09:19 PM #461 runway model journeyman   Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 226 Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released*** scylla Great software! I'm sure it's simple, but i don't get how to use the weighting feature in the holecard ranges. For instance, v simplified esample, how would I set a holecard range to: 40% AA 40% KK 20% 98s Thank you
11-02-2008, 10:28 PM   #462
scylla
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
 Originally Posted by runway model scylla Great software! I'm sure it's simple, but i don't get how to use the weighting feature in the holecard ranges. For instance, v simplified esample, how would I set a holecard range to: 40% AA 40% KK 20% 98s Thank you
You can set it in the preflop menu under the weight button. It's the circled button in the pic below:

In a decision tree a weighted condition will look like this:

To learn how to properly use StoxEV I recommend watching the video manual. Takes about an hour to watch.
To do this, go to www.stoxpoker.com/videos and search for
- Coach name: Guest pro
- Key concepts: EV

Cheers,

Scylla

PS: And if anyone reading this is a US citizen .... on tuesday go out and VOTE VOTE VOTE. Please, I'm begging you. End this madness.

 11-20-2008, 04:20 PM #463 Azalin adept   Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 953 Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released*** I would just like to thank you for this great software and for all the effort you put into it.
11-21-2008, 04:54 AM   #464
INSPIRON
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 108
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Azalin I would just like to thank you for this great software and for all the effort you put into it.
I think the best way of thanking him would be to make a donation, as I am about to do now.

 11-24-2008, 08:55 AM #465 hankat old hand     Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Old Europe Posts: 1,628 Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released*** Cheers! I got the following warning: SecureWeb-Gateway 6.7.6 2008.11.24 Heuristic.Malware
11-24-2008, 08:59 AM   #466
scylla
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
 Originally Posted by hankat Cheers! I got the following warning: SecureWeb-Gateway 6.7.6 2008.11.24 Heuristic.Malware
Is this the first time you've used StoxEV.
If not, I asume you didn't have problems in earlier versions?

Do you get the error for the startup screen or when the actual program starts?

11-24-2008, 09:08 AM   #467
hankat
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
 Originally Posted by scylla Is this the first time you've used StoxEV. If not, I asume you didn't have problems in earlier versions? Do you get the error for the startup screen or when the actual program starts?
I just checked the stoxev216.msi file on my desktop with http://www.virustotal.com/.
Haven't started anything yet.

11-24-2008, 09:12 AM   #468
scylla
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
 Originally Posted by hankat I just checked the stoxev216.msi file on my desktop. Haven't started anything yet.
I see, that's a bit different then.
Try the following.
I'm releasing an update in the next 24h.
I'll also post a zipped version of the files on the website for you.
Try stoxev217.msi first to see if the error was just a fluke.
If not, try the patch and let me know if there's any problems.
Once you've succesfully got StoxEV working and always use the StoxEV.exe file to start up the program you shouldn't have any more problems since from that point on any updates will be automatically downloaded.

If your concern is merely that you're worried about some sort of virus being located in the program, I can assure you there's nothing in the remotest sense like that in StoxEV.

11-24-2008, 09:17 AM   #469
hankat
old hand

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Old Europe
Posts: 1,628
Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
 Originally Posted by scylla I see, that's a bit different then. Try the following. I'm releasing an update in the next 24h. I'll also post a zipped version of the files on the website for you. Try stoxev217.msi first to see if the error was just a fluke. If not, try the patch and let me know if there's any problems. Once you've succesfully got StoxEV working and always use the StoxEV.exe file to start up the program you shouldn't have any more problems since from that point on any updates will be automatically downloaded.
Thanks scylla. I'll check it out later.
Since it was 1 out of 36 at virustotal.com it was probably a fluke.

Last edited by hankat; 11-24-2008 at 09:25 AM.

 11-30-2008, 12:29 PM #470 LuckyDevil Pooh-Bah     Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,511 Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released*** Last time i used StoxEV (which was awhile ago so this may be solved) i had a problem when i upgraded. It didn't/doesn't carry over the custom ranges that i saved. Meaning every time a new version comes out i have to reenter and save my custom ranges all over again, and i had a bunch. Is there anyway for me to manually backup my custom ranges or perhaps you could make it so StoxEV doesn't erase that information when upgrading. Thanks. Oh, and same thing goes for saved postflop conditions to. Last edited by LuckyDevil; 11-30-2008 at 12:44 PM.
11-30-2008, 02:20 PM   #471
scylla
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
 Originally Posted by LuckyDevil Last time i used StoxEV (which was awhile ago so this may be solved) i had a problem when i upgraded. It didn't/doesn't carry over the custom ranges that i saved. Meaning every time a new version comes out i have to reenter and save my custom ranges all over again, and i had a bunch. Is there anyway for me to manually backup my custom ranges or perhaps you could make it so StoxEV doesn't erase that information when upgrading. Thanks. Oh, and same thing goes for saved postflop conditions to.
Since version 2.1.5 StoxEV automatically upgrades upon startup and leaves all your custom files intact.

 12-01-2008, 07:17 AM #472 gtrunner57 journeyman   Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 288 Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released*** I was just playing around with the relatively new feature of unexploitable pushing range/optimal calling range and found what I would consider to be a strange result. If you are in the SB vs BB preflop 30BB deep and decide you just want to shove all in or fold, it is unexploitable to have 76s as part of your range? Can anyone else put some context to this result - I find it very hard to believe.
12-01-2008, 07:40 AM   #473
scylla
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
 Originally Posted by gtrunner57 I was just playing around with the relatively new feature of unexploitable pushing range/optimal calling range and found what I would consider to be a strange result. If you are in the SB vs BB preflop 30BB deep and decide you just want to shove all in or fold, it is unexploitable to have 76s as part of your range? Can anyone else put some context to this result - I find it very hard to believe.
Part of your range is value, part of it is blufs.
BB will choose his calling range as the optimal one versus your pushing range.
The blufs in your range will widen BB's calling range, which will again add value to your strong hands.
It's all a tough balancing act and it appears 76s is part of it.

The reason why 76s is one of the pushing hands is most likely because as a bluffing hand it performs reasonably well against overpairs and high cards, giving it at least some equity when called.

If you feel that you can come up with a solution that is significantly better than the one found by StoxEV, give it a try.
Step 1: Select the sb's range for pushing as you see fit.
Step 2: Set BB's call range to all hands and his fold range to all hands
Step 3: Perform the EV run with F7
Step 4: Hover over BB's call range and press Alt+D to remove all -EV hands, giving BB an optimal calling range
Step 5: Recompute with F7

It's possible to come up with solutions that are very very slightly better than the one found by StoxEV, but I've never found anything that performs noticably better.
Also, given the way the algorithm works, I don't see how it could ever be possible for a significantly better solution to exist.

Last edited by scylla; 12-01-2008 at 07:45 AM.

 12-01-2008, 10:25 AM #474 Chipp journeyman     Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: not impressed by your perforaments Posts: 352 Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released*** Yeah, see MOP and Andy's chapter in the FT book, 76s is good for a jam up to 35-36bbs. scylla, would it be difficult to allow for mixed strategies when calculating unexploitable pushing?
12-01-2008, 11:01 AM   #475
scylla
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Re: ***Stoxpoker EV calculator 2.1.4 released***

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Chipp scylla, would it be difficult to allow for mixed strategies when calculating unexploitable pushing?
Simple question.

YES, that would be difficult.
I wouldn't know where to start.

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