I think I'll increase it to 12, although I can't guarantee that it will be in the next release. It kind of depends how "hard-coded" the max number of 8 is in the code. Another minor issue is that the icons for the new checkpoints will have to be designed by a third party, so that's out of my hands.

Considering it's a beta, we could live with really ugly icons for some time... a year or two maybe, to start with?

Well, the main issue remains how hard it is to change the code.

Let's say I open to 3 bb with 76s from the BTN and BB 3b to 10 bb. If I fold to his raise I've lost 3bb.

Should my goal when calculating calling or 4betting compared to folding be to have a better than EV:-3 or should my goal be to have a better than EV:0?

If my calculations tells me that calling gives me a EV:-1.5, have I saved 1.5bb compared to folding or I have I lost my initial 3bb along with another 1.5bb?

Thanks

You mean like this, right?



Your goal at the 4bet decision should be to get your EV above 0.

If, like here, your EV is -$3.53, then 4betting will mean that you will lose another $3.53 on top of the money you've lost already.

What is the EV of folding?
The EV of folding is always 0, by definition. This is because the EV of any other action will always be evaluated compared to what you would have had if you just folded.

Why is the EV of the initial raise +EV?
That is because in 90.1% BB will fold and SB will win the pot. That will therefore make him 90.1%*1.5=$1.35. In the other 9.88% of the cases SB will lose 3.53. However, since he paid $2.5 to get into this spot, his real lose there is 2.50+3.53=$6.03. So the fold line loses SB 9.88%*6.03=$0.59. That makes SB's total EV $1.35-$0.59=$0.76.

So what should I do here?
You should raise to 3 with 76s to steal the blinds, but fold if BB plays back at you.

hi scylla, I have recently encountered a few errors.

1. in the script editor, if I don't hit save before exiting, I am asked whether I want to save. sometimes when I choose (either yes or no), some of the functions in my script get moved around. I have learned to hit save before every trial and it never happens when I do that. I was able to replicate this bug on one of my DeucesCracked videos to prove that I wasn't just going crazy it is really bizarre.

2.


I have gotten this error a few times now. The script stops running and only a white box appears. The program has not crashed. I am able to save my tree and close normally. It typically occurs during long scripts, and it has happened both on my desktop and laptop. My computers have completed longer scripts, so I'm not sure if it's just my computers not being powerful enough or something else.

3.

I have tried the RANDOM BOARD(2) function on many different complete trees just now, and it always gives me the same message. the weird part is that it puts out the random river card, but then it always gives me an error. am I misusing it? <--- I searched the thread and saw someone else had this problem. I'll update my beta.

thanks for the help as always.

I think I've encountered this at some point, but have not been able to reproduce it. It's possible I've already fixed this bug though. I've run into another issue with saving scripts that might also be the cause of thís bug. So let's just see if the next update fixes this.

I've never heard of this error, but I doubt it has anything to do with your computer not being powerful enough. Could you send a script+savefile please (provided the issue can be reproduced?).

This is most likely because the river is almost never reached.
The RANDOM BOARD(2) function needs to take card removal into account in order to determine the proper frequency in which river cards can come of. For this it needs to be able to reach the river often enough. I'm not 100% sure though if thís is the error you get when that happens. I thought I had made a custom message.

Could you send me a savefile please?

I emailed you, thanks.

there is currently no way to control the turn/river layer system through the scripting right? just purely manual? not that important, but that would be a useful function. e.g. write some script that performs an unexploitable shove for each layer, and be able to plot EV(shove) vs. card layer.

I can see how that would be interesting, but I'm having trouble translating that into a function that would make logical sense in the interface.

Hello, I want to calc. the follow thing.(NL100)

I am SB en BB is a fish.I flat with 8To and bb will raise 10% and he will ch behind 90% If he raises I will fold always. If he checks I will bet flop always 75% and we assume he will fold 50% to this bet. I want calc. the total EV but I don't know how to make the tree.

Is it right the PF EV is -0.5
post postflop EV is 50% I loose 1.50 and 50% I win 2.00 so post flop EV is +0.50


Is this total EV play? 90%*0.5 - 10%*0.5

See below for a pic of the tree I built for this situation.
And click here for the savefile.

.

There's two lines here to take into account:

BB raises
If BB raises and SB folds, then SB will lose 50 cents.
This will happen 10% of the time.

BB checks
SB will make 25 cents on average for every time he bets.
This is because in 50% of the cases he will win the $2 pot.
And in the other 50% he will lose his $1.5 bet.
So the EV for the bet on the flop is:
50%*$2-50%*$1.5=$0.25.
However, SB had to pay 50 cents preflop to get ínto this 25 cent spot after the flop. So his preflop investment actually lóses him 25 cents.

The EV for the preflop call
In 10% of the cases SB will lose 50 cents.
In the other 90% of the cases SB will lose 25 cents.
That makes the EV for the preflop call:
-10%*$0.50-90%*$0.25=$0.275

I like to collect more data than 3 values if I run script (NO GRAPH NEEDED). Maybe you will add this possibilty some day?

Can't you just use a 1D graph and look for the minimum/maximum?
Or just use StoreTree(Nr) and LoadTree(Nr) to look for the minimum/maximum?

Of course I can, but I like to copy paste all data to excel with minimum timelost and some of my scripts are more complicated/dynamic than loading only minimum/maximum.

Personally I don't care about grapical illustartion, only about y/x/z collected data.

Anyway it was just idea I like to see in future, but if I am only one, there is no point to waste time for that.

Hello

I have some problems when i try to make range, i can t save or overwritten like flopzilla? because its bugy

I'm not aware of any issues here.
Are you using the alpha or the beta?

Fwiw, the beta is currently version 2.8.7.
The alpha is version 2.7.6.
To get the version, go to "Help->about this software" in the menu.

hi
Im currently in the 2.8.6 and i dont find the 2.8.7 version
and yes i can't right clic on the name one the name of the range like flopzilla for overwritten etc

Ok, I have only recently released v2.8.7.
You can get it here:
http://www.cardrunnersev.com/download.html

Should you still get v2.8.6 then please try refreshing the page.

Other than that, could you please check that you have "Clear mode" (upper left of the menu) turned OFF?

thanks for the update. I was greeted with 12 Location points just now. time to do some scripting

Yes, some of the other requests on scripting (for example debugging) will be made available in a later update. This update is mostly focussed on bug fixes and minor changes. Roughly 80 of them I believe.

Hi

I seem to have ran into a bugt in the latest version with 2D graphs.

Since unexploitable shove no longer removes locations (thanks!), I decided to try to make a simple 3bet/4bet jam vs. 50bb stack script and display frequency of 3bet, frequency of 4bet and EV of 4bet in a 2D graph. This doesn't work, cause value2 in the add 2D data point function only seem to store the first value. (looping from 5 to 100 it stores a frequency of 5.5 in this case). I thought I was doing something wrong and stored the frequency in a veriable. I can see it being stored, but it doesn't matter if I try to insert the variable or the frequency as a data point. I also tried just looping through a variable and storing the variable as a data point in value 1 and 2 with the same result.

See the image below. You can see the relevant part of the script as well.


Is this a bug or am I doing something wrong?

I'd need to see a savefile+script.
Could you mail it to support please?

Ok, I've seen the files.

The 2D graph algorithm, taking input in the form of datasets (X,Y,Value), expects X and Y to be provided in the form of a matrix.

More specifically, it expects input from a loop within a loop:

1. Set variable Y 2
2. Set variable X 0
3. Add 2D data point(X,Y,VALUE)
4. Increase X 1
5. IF(X<10)
6. GOTO 3.
7. ENDIF
8. Increase Y 1
9. IF(Y<8)
10. GOTO 2.
11. ENDIF

When you however try to give it input in the form of something like (Frq(1),Frq(2),Value), where Frq(1) and Frq(2) are frequencies that have been measured in the tree, then those two X and Y values will simply not be in a configuration that will allow a 2D matrix to be created.

For example, let's say that your algorithm leads to the following data sets:

Frq1=55.5% Frq2=13.3% Value=6
Frq1=53.1% Frq2=23.0% Value=6.5
Frq1=49.2% Frq2=73.3% Value=6.9
Frq1=15.2% Frq2=53.4% Value=7.2
Frq1=23.5% Frq2=43.7% Value=5.56
Frq1=37.5% Frq2=38.4% Value=4.13

Try for yourself to arrange that data into a 2D matrix that shows Frq1, Frq2 and Value. It's just not possible. Those data sets can not be arranged in that manner.

To be arranged into a 2D graph, you need data sets that look like:

X=1 Y=10 VALUE=3.55
X=2 Y=10 VALUE=3.58
X=3 Y=10 VALUE=3.72

X=1 Y=12 VALUE=3.40
X=2 Y=12 VALUE=3.50
X=3 Y=12 VALUE=3.60

X=1 Y=14 VALUE=3.11
X=2 Y=14 VALUE=3.22
X=3 Y=14 VALUE=3.33

So for example, the data set above can be arranged into the following matrix:

___10__12__14
1
2
3

Cheers,

Scylla

Hello. I just wanted to make some rather easy calculations and found out that CRev yields results that seem wrong for me.

What i'm trying to do is model a situation when i steal on the button having 100bb stack and small blind, which has 40bb stack, 3bets me. I want to know what range i can profitably shove considering that i know what range sb is calling and what range he's folding. So i made this tree



computed it and it shows that it's +ev to shove these hands:



But the thing is, it must be wrong! E.g., it shows that ev for shoving K5s is -0.13. But let's calculate it manually. According to this formula:

EVofshove = x*Pot + (1-x)[WinningAmount*P - LosingAmount*(1-P)]

where
x - percentage of times sb folds (which is 55.6%)
Pot - pot after sb 3bets (which is 9$)
P - our chance to win when sb calls our shove (K5s has 33.16% equity vs sb's calling range)
WinningAmount - amount of money we win when we shove and sb calls (which is 9$ pot + 38$ that we shove over our initial 2$ bet = 47$)
LosingAmount - amount of money we lose when we shove and sb calls (which is 38$)

so, EVofshove = 0.556*9 + (1-0.556)[47*0.3316 - 38*(1-0.3316)] = 0.647
This number doesn't match -0.13, which CRev gives us.

And according to this formula, the +ev range of shoving should be this:



By the way, if i calculate the ev for this shove (with K5s) in CRev's shoving math tool, it shows ev of 0.4093$, which matches neither CRev's -0.13$ ev nor my manually calculated +0.647$.



Maybe i'm doing something wrong?
I'll mail you my CRev file in advance in case you need it.

Hi rraaaa,

Actually, some of these numbers are slightly different:

x-percentage of times sb folds is 54.7%. The 55.6% number is just the folding frequency averaged over all of button's hands. However, due to card removal, each hand has a different frequency. To get the folding frequency for K5s, just make Button's "Raise to 2" range júst for K5s. You'll find that now SB's fold frequency is 54.7%.

WinningAmount is 43. It's the $9 pot, plus what SB has left in front of him, which is a $34 stack.

So, EVofshove = 0.547*9 + (1-0.547)[43*0.3316 - 38*(1-0.3316)] = -0.12.
The 1 cent difference is due to rounding.