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Old 05-05-2011, 06:23 PM   #51
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

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Originally Posted by FreakDaddy View Post
Each program has a different version, since they are also sold separately. So your version of the equity trainer is the latest. There may be an issue with the auto updater we're checking into though.
Do you mean the Preflolp Trainer & the Equity Trainer need to up updated seperately? I went to File > Check For Updates twice, separately while each of the programs were running. Same problem. I'll just re-install from the original link. What version should it say? Currently Preflop trainer says v 1.00.03, Equity says v 1.00.31, and Odds & Outs says 1.00.08.

In there future, could you maybe post in this thread when there are new updates & what versions they are? Also, there def be one auto update feature that could check for all of these, imo. (But perhaps that's what you intended which isn't working currently.) Thanks.
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Old 05-05-2011, 07:02 PM   #52
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

OK, I just downloaded & installed it from the http://acepokerdrills.com/download.html page, and restarted Windows. Same versions, same issue.
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Old 05-06-2011, 02:46 PM   #53
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

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OK, I just downloaded & installed it from the http://acepokerdrills.com/download.html page, and restarted Windows. Same versions, same issue.
What is the issue you're having exactly? I tried to go back and see, but i didn't see any issue.

We have an internal version for all 3 programs. We don't list that, but we're going to show it in the title bar from now on. We try and post updates here, but it's not always easy to keep up with every thread across different sites. There is a main APD thread on PZ that will have update info.

It sounded like you had an old version because the re-start was to initiate the APD mentor reminder. But you said the version stayed the same, so that's odd.
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Old 05-07-2011, 03:27 AM   #54
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

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Originally Posted by FreakDaddy View Post
What is the issue you're having exactly? I tried to go back and see, but i didn't see any issue.
Oops. Just realized that this was a follow-up to a PM, so people reading this might not get what the context was. Basically the problem was that I hit Check For Updates option, it prompted that there was an update, I hit yes, it appeared to download & install the newer version, it then prompted to restart, but it looks like I'm still using 100.31. And strangely I can keep hitting Check For Updates and it will keep saying there's a newer version. But you answered this q already. I'm just gonna wait 'til the developers have a look. It's obviously not a huge deal -- just thought you should know we might not be getting updated versions of the program automatically after all.

Quote:
We have an internal version for all 3 programs. We don't list that, but we're going to show it in the title bar from now on. We try and post updates here, but it's not always easy to keep up with every thread across different sites. There is a main APD thread on PZ that will have update info.
Ah, the Poker Zion site. Forgot about that. For those who don't know the APD forum is here. But I can't find the current version thread, if there is one.

Thanks.
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Old 05-09-2011, 09:01 PM   #55
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

Yes, thank you. There was an issue that when the APD mentor reminder was active, it wasn't updating properly. It was fixed, and we'll be rolling out a new version tomorrow with some other slight changes.

I'll try to post in here when there are updates, with a change list. We don't have an official one like we do for LB, but we'll have one on PZ going forward.
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Old 05-17-2011, 11:01 PM   #56
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

I've been playing live limit again recently (after a long break) so I got the bundle mostly for the preflop trainer. So far I've been very happy with it, but sometimes it just seems to be wrong. In this example it suggests a call from MP with 97. The Hint knows that "This hand is below Group 8". I think it may just be treating 97 as 97s, and it's possible that this is only happening with 97.



EDIT: For the record, I did not get 0 out of 100! It reset the percent when I closed the end popup.

Last edited by qwnu; 05-17-2011 at 11:04 PM. Reason: 0% lol
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Old 05-18-2011, 02:32 PM   #57
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

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EDIT: For the record, I did not get 0 out of 100! It reset the percent when I closed the end popup.
Suuuure....

Thanks. I'm having the developers look into it. That would be my suspicion as well about 97. It knows what groups it's in, and explains what kinds of hands should be played there, but 97 isn't in that group clearly. I'll let you know what they find when I get word back.
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Old 05-27-2011, 05:09 AM   #58
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

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Originally Posted by rowhousepd View Post
Basically the problem was that I hit Check For Updates option, it prompted that there was an update, I hit yes, it appeared to download & install the newer version, it then prompted to restart, but it looks like I'm still using 100.31. And strangely I can keep hitting Check For Updates and it will keep saying there's a newer version. But you answered this q already. I'm just gonna wait 'til the developers have a look. It's obviously not a huge deal -- just thought you should know we might not be getting updated versions of the program automatically after all.
Bump. Any idea if this is cleared up? It still asked me to update ... and after reinstalling, it still keeps asking. Also, any other updates/enhancements toe APD coming in the near future? Thanks.
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Old 05-27-2011, 07:36 AM   #59
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

OK I am trying to understand Equity trainer.

I using the unregistered version.
Equity trainer.
Flop
6-max
Qiz sytle - on
Bluff equity – off
Num – 20
Auto plya – on
Deal method manual
APD on

I can not see any way of seeing how the computer gets its answer. If you get a wrong answer it would be natural to want to look at this.
The Answer button does not seem to do anything. Is it just there to confuse?
Is the save current had working / do anything?

Being able to see the computer's calculation would help to find bugs. Having a text version of hands, or alternatly making hand saving more transparant would help study and error reporting.

Last edited by Piers; 05-27-2011 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 05-27-2011, 04:26 PM   #60
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

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Originally Posted by rowhousepd View Post
Bump. Any idea if this is cleared up? It still asked me to update ... and after reinstalling, it still keeps asking. Also, any other updates/enhancements toe APD coming in the near future? Thanks.
You will likely need to uninstall your version, and download from the site and re-install. There was a bug with the auto update, and with the version you have it will likely keep saying there's an update until you get the latest. Then once you have the new one w/ the fix, it shouldn't do that going forward.

Yes, there are more features coming. I will list some in here soon.
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Old 05-27-2011, 04:34 PM   #61
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

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Originally Posted by Piers View Post
OK I am trying to understand Equity trainer.

I using the unregistered version.
Equity trainer.
Flop
6-max
Qiz sytle - on
Bluff equity – off
Num – 20
Auto plya – on
Deal method manual
APD on

I can not see any way of seeing how the computer gets its answer. If you get a wrong answer it would be natural to want to look at this.
The Answer button does not seem to do anything. Is it just there to confuse?
Is the save current had working / do anything?

Being able to see the computer's calculation would help to find bugs. Having a text version of hands, or alternatly making hand saving more transparant would help study and error reporting.
You can click on the + next to the opponents HUD stats, and it will list out their range in a grid. You can also alter this by clicking on hands and you can remove or add hands.

For the bluff equity calculations you can click on the hint button and it will show you the equation. But if you're asking about how it's creating a standard equity calculation, I don't think many people are going to do this calculation because it's fairly long. It's going to take the range of hands it's creating (again click on the + next to your opponent) and then based on the board, your hand, and your opponents range it's going to calculate your equity and place it into a range of answers.

Also, if you go to FILE in the top menu you can:
a) Save the current hand, go back and re-play it later
b) Copy the hand history and it will put it into an XML format you can load into most database programs.
c) Load hands directly from your database and use the equity trainer to test you skills in situations you've faced.

I'd suggest watching 1 or all of the videos on the site, there's also a manual if you click HELP from the main menu. I think it will really explain things in more detail.

If you have any other questions though, just let me know.
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Old 05-27-2011, 06:41 PM   #62
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

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Originally Posted by FreakDaddy View Post
You will likely need to uninstall your version, and download from the site and re-install. There was a bug with the auto update, and with the version you have it will likely keep saying there's an update until you get the latest. Then once you have the new one w/ the fix, it shouldn't do that going forward.
Uninstalled, reinstalled from the website, same update message on start up the first time. Went ahead and updated via APD anyway. The auto reminder didn't pop back up, but if I ask to check for updates, it says I have an older version.

Again, not a huge deal. Just letting you know. Looking forward to new features!
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Old 05-28-2011, 05:55 AM   #63
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

Repeat post

Last edited by Piers; 05-28-2011 at 06:13 AM.
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Old 05-28-2011, 06:00 AM   #64
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

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Originally Posted by FreakDaddy View Post
Also, if you go to FILE in the top menu you can:
a) Save the current hand, go back and re-play it later
So is the save disabled in the unregistered version then? Noting happens when I hit save, and I can't find the file anywhere.

It would be nice if you could review the action, without having to replay it. Like the dealers text you get on most sites.

Also some of the ranges that the opponents come up with are just weird. If I can get the save working I might post some, I assume the opponent's range is saved as part of a save?

Edit:
It seems to assume that players won't flat call the flop heads up with top pair? Presuming I assume that opponents will always raise in this position? Certainly not my experience.

Edit Edit
Actually I think it would better if the flop equity did not have any flop action at all. It would avoid above nonsense.

When you see the flop, that's the most important time to make an estimate of your equity. So you can sensibly judge your flop action. Would seem both more useful and easier to program than what you actually have done.

Last edited by Piers; 05-28-2011 at 06:12 AM.
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Old 05-29-2011, 12:35 AM   #65
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

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So is the save disabled in the unregistered version then? Noting happens when I hit save, and I can't find the file anywhere.
File -> View saved hands
Again, if you go to file, and click copy hand history it will put it into your read buffer to paste.

Quote:
Also some of the ranges that the opponents come up with are just weird. If I can get the save working I might post some, I assume the opponent's range is saved as part of a save?

Edit:
It seems to assume that players won't flat call the flop heads up with top pair? Presuming I assume that opponents will always raise in this position? Certainly not my experience.
No, the equity trainer part of the program you're referring to will flat call with top pair. I'm not sure how you're coming to this conclusion since you can only see a range of hands.

Quote:
Edit Edit
Actually I think it would better if the flop equity did not have any flop action at all. It would avoid above nonsense.

When you see the flop, that's the most important time to make an estimate of your equity. So you can sensibly judge your flop action. Would seem both more useful and easier to program than what you actually have done.
I honestly am not sure what you're referring to. A players actions and how a hand plays pre and post flop determine an opponents range. That's what the equity trainer is training players to understand.

You can select what equity you want to drill from, pre-flop, flop, turn or river. So again, I'm not really sure what you're referring to here.

The interface is pretty simple if you take a look at the 3 menu options you have, everything you're referring to is right there. And again, I'd recommend watching one of the tutorial videos.
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Old 06-06-2011, 06:46 PM   #66
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

I think it would be pretty interesting to have new feature where you had to estimate your EV against an opponent calling, folding ( and raising) ranges. I think that's what your software needs in order to be a truly complete training tool.
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Old 06-09-2011, 01:57 PM   #67
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

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I think it would be pretty interesting to have new feature where you had to estimate your EV against an opponent calling, folding ( and raising) ranges. I think that's what your software needs in order to be a truly complete training tool.
Yes, good suggestion. We're going to be adding something kind of like this in the near future. The challenge is that we want to keep the price point on the product as low as possible, while creating some unique training processes that are important to accelerated poker growth.
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Old 06-10-2011, 03:19 PM   #68
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

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Yes, good suggestion. We're going to be adding something kind of like this in the near future. The challenge is that we want to keep the price point on the product as low as possible, while creating some unique training processes that are important to accelerated poker growth.
I understand.

BTW, literally "estimating EV" was not exactly what I had in mind. I was more thinking about giving the user the opportunity to choose the most +EV action among more than one, thus forcing the user to gauge value betting equity, fold equity, etc.
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:41 PM   #69
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

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I understand.

BTW, literally "estimating EV" was not exactly what I had in mind. I was more thinking about giving the user the opportunity to choose the most +EV action among more than one, thus forcing the user to gauge value betting equity, fold equity, etc.
Gotcha. Right now the assumption is that if you bet X% with Y% equity, then that's the best play usually, but I completely understand what you're saying. It is something we're going to make as a training option in the equity trainer in the near future.
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:45 PM   #70
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

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I honestly am not sure what you're referring to. A players actions and how a hand plays pre and post flop determine an opponents range. That's what the equity trainer is training players to understand. .
I was deducing this from the answers (4 percentage ranges). However it possible that I was not answering the right question.

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Equity trainer.
Flop
6-max
Qiz sytle - on
Bluff equity – off
Num – 20
Auto plya – on
Deal method manual
APD on
So what exactly am I being asked here? What are the percentage ranges estimates of.

What is really missing is some clear indication on the screen, while you are using it as to what the question you are trying to answer is. Assume that it is being used for the first time each time it is used – otherwise it will be most of the time.

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Originally Posted by FreakDaddy View Post
I honestly am not sure what you're referring to. A players actions and how a hand plays pre and post flop determine an opponents range. That's what the equity trainer is training players to understand.
I believe I was suggesting a new feature.

What I am saying is that the critical time to make an equity calculation is immediately the flop appears. That's when everything changes, and you need a clear grasp of your equity so you can sensible plan your actions.

So I was suggesting just give the pre flop action and the flop and ask the player to estimate their equity. This should not be too difficult to estimate from pre flop stats. If in position, might include opponents action.

This is a test I often used to give myself. Pick some hand that reaches the flop and I feel I need to understand better, then keep dealing out flops, estimating EV then check them using poker stove. Try to build into my intuition, a feel of where I am immediately the flop comes down.

Similar thing to estimate equity immediately on first seeing turn and river card. Although this is more difficult as the program needs some understanding of playing the hands, but you see to be already doing that.

Last edited by Piers; 06-15-2011 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:57 PM   #71
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

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What I am saying is that the critical time to make an equity calculation is immediately the flop appears. That's when everything changes, and you need a clear grasp of your equity so you can sensible plan your actions.

So I was suggesting just give the pre flop action and the flop and ask the player to estimate their equity. This should not be too difficult to estimate from pre flop stats. If in position, might include opponents action.

This is a test I often used to give myself. Pick some hand that reaches the flop and I feel I need to understand better, then keep dealing out flops, estimating EV then check them using poker stove. Try to build into my intuition, a feel of where I am immediately the flop comes down.

Similar thing to estimate equity immediately on first seeing turn and river card. Although this is more difficult as the program needs some understanding of playing the hands, but you see to be already doing that.
You do understand that you can drill specifically for pre-flop, flop, turn or river actions correct?

It's already doing what your suggesting. I mean perhaps you mean to have the equity estimated with each new action on the flop, right now it will drill in specific patterns. EX: Over pair on coordinated board, and sometimes you check, sometimes you bet, etc..

It kind of defeats what we're trying to accomplish with the program which is drill in specific common patterns based on specific actions so that when you're actually at the table, you'll have a much better immediate sense of your approximate equity, and can in turn make better decisions on your best action.
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Old 06-24-2011, 04:19 AM   #72
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

Can you pleeeeaaase add the ability to go back to previous hands after you answer quiz questions. It would be especially useful if are using the automatic dealer since you only have about a second to take it the correct answer. Also...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreakDaddy View Post
Yes, there are more features coming. I will list some in here soon.
Any plans for more features or any fixes/changes to the software? There are a bunch in this thread and on the PokerZion forum, but I haven't noticed anything yet. (Personally, I'd love to see some interface improvements -- 4 color deck, larger font for the HUD.) Sorry to be a nag. Thanks.
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Old 06-24-2011, 02:06 PM   #73
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

I like the concept of the software. I'm really big into training/repetition, and have been meaning to hone my equity estimations for a while and this seems like a great lazy man's way of doing it.

But... having just purchased and run through a few examples, I see a few minor weaknesses that I think should be addressed.

1. We all know the rule of 2/4 is just a generalized rule. But since we're factoring outs, the OUTS become the major part of the drill (at least the one I'm doing which is odds and outs).
Once you have the correct outs, there's NO REASON to drill in generalized odds. The odds per out will not change if you've correctly determined the outs.

2. The interesting part of the odds & outs is calculating the backdoor potential of hero's hand. However, when the villain has redraw potential, this isn't SUBTRACTED from our outs! It should be since we're slicing bread on weak draws much of the time here.
example from the prog: we have 86 on 8Q3 and villain has KK with K program says we have full 5 outs when villain has a redraw should the 6 fall

just my two cents. Perhaps have a check box where we can elect to factor this stuff in or not... or an advanced version?

4 color deck is a waste for live players - so if adding this in, make it optional. I'm prob one of the few online players that use a 2 color deck just because I also play live and just like to train myself a bit more.

Last edited by Color Up; 06-24-2011 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 06-24-2011, 03:14 PM   #74
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

Thanks for the suggestions guys. There will be many things added soon. Resources are a little tighter post black friday unfortunately.

1. This was a big request from a lot of people. We can add an option to turn it off though.

2. True, this is actually factored into many situations, but flush draw back doors need to be subtracted better. Agree.
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Old 06-24-2011, 09:20 PM   #75
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Re: Ace Poker Drills: Equity Trainer / Pre-Flop Trainer / Odds & Outs and Equity Calculator

One other suggestion: what about adding the option to display answers in ratios instead of percentages? Thanks.
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