I saw an article on another publication where Victory is claiming to have raised the amount of players on the network playing.

Can you tell me why there is still only 200 people on the network at 9PM Eastern time? It's the same amount as it has been in forever.

Also all these pro's you claim to have, why aren't they ever playing? Sounds like a bunch of smoke and mirrors if you ask me. If you are going to reply they play, list their player names and what levels they play at.

It's been published that the so called pros own a portion of the site but yet their star power has delivered nothing. I play on a long standing Everleaf room and can't see where you have added any value. I am sure I know what your response will be and it's ok to defend, but be rest assured to have your facts straight. Which to this point, you haven't done a good job in doing.

Any site that takes 9 days to process neteller and money booker payments has issues. While you can pass blame on to the network, why aren't you acting in behalf of these players and demanding they are paid as promptly as they deposit. Neteller and Moneybookers don't take 9 days to process anywhere else.

not sure why you have to use a new name to make this post, but your post is +1 and is spot on. I haven't seen any new developments in traffic since the first week it opened. The marketing campaign is very good. but the thing killing you guys is the deposits.
in my case, I saw the commercials etc.. I dl'ed the software, tried depositing, it required all these verfication or calling customer support. bla bla bla. i Said fk it.
came back 3 months later after seeing another crazy ad for VP, tried to deposit again, got declined again. saw that the games are dead. gave up again.
the moral of the story is, that when people want to play or gamble, they want to do it NOW, they're not gonna wait 2-3 days to get a 100$ deposit approved.
my advice to you guys is to weigh more of your operations towards deposits. as in assign a customer service hotline mainly for deposits or a live chat mainly for deposits. thats the only way you guys are gonna make money. if you notice all the poker rooms, as soon as you have a deposit problem, they instantly call you, or a live chat window pops up. on a brighter side note, I see that you just added some new deposit methods so hopefully those workout. but you still need to allocate more of your employees towards deposits help.

One reply is that I am new to posting but I have lurked 2+2 for a long time. I was reading some of the threads here and figured I would ask some questions instead of just wondering for a change.

I can't say I've had issues deposting because I use pic to deposit. Withdrawals have been spotty at times due to weekends but I haven't had much issues like what I've seen elsewhere. Lucky I guess.

I am not trying to come across negative but just wonder where all these players are that are being claimed to have been added. I like the network because it is smaller but there's a lot of wild claims that can't be substantiated.

Victory doesn't have to make "claims" about anything. It's just clear cut facts.
Simply go to www.pokerscout.com and look at this exact moment in life and you'll see that Everleaf has more cash players then BODOG online and is nearly tied with BETFAIR in which both have billions of dollars and a half a decade headstart.
Then go back to January 31st the day before Victory went live and notice that the network had 600% less players on that day...
There are other elements to their growth as well and I'm proud of everything Everleaf is working so hard on to become a major player in the industry. Their 600% growth over the last few months has been EPIC.

When you look at 9 pm eastern time you'll notice much lower amounts of players on Everleaf as well as sites like BETFAIR because we are predominantly focused on international players who are sleeping at that time. It would be around 5 am in Europe when your looking. You can understand why I focus on Europe/Canada and Scandinavian Markets with all of the difficulties for depositing in the US.
I spend 6 figures a month marketing in the US but I never said it would be easy to deposit and I dont control the depositing/transfer of funds/withdrawals/etc. I have no access to them whatsoever. The Everleaf Gaming Network handles all of it under the EU License they have in Malta which is extremely strict but better for everyone in the long run which is why CAKE Network recently moved there as well.
Everleaf has just released new depositing options and they will continue to find as many ways to make things easier for depositors globally.

As far as the pro's on my team. I've never made claim that they own a portion of the site and I'm not sure how you can say their "Star power has brought nothing" when Antonio Esfandiari, Paul Wasicka, Andrew Robl, Keith Gipson, Brian Rast have all been wearing Victory Patches on television in the past 3 weeks alone.
My team of 20 pro's has over 30 million in tournament earnings, they've done dozens of articles and interviews each week and they play all the time.
You can find the pro's with their real names on the site, it's as simple as that, they dont use special screennames. You can play vs. Jonathan Little or Alec Torelli nearly everyday if you choose to. They'd be happy too : )
Im not sure why you would say that I "claim" to have these pro's. I spend hundreds of thousands putting their images into over 20 magazines a month and countless ads online on almost every news site. I wouldnt be able to use their image if they weren't sponsored pro's. You can get the full list at www.victorypoker.net and feel free to walk around the tournament room at the WSOP right now and see the patches on all of them.

This link should show you an example of how many magazines we're in this month alone http://tweetphoto.com/25451556 which may solidify the fact that I wouldn't be spending this much money if we weren't seeing thousands and thousands of people registering from it. Each magazine is 4 to $16,000 per month depending on distribution.
Since our site has grown SO much faster then expected, I've increased the marketing budget's because we can see that it's working and people are responding.

There is still a long road ahead of us and none of it is going to be easy but the response has been overwhelming from the amount of players to the amount of business people working with us in our quest to grow the Victory brand.

Jonathan little plays a bit there, but i would assume the other pros dont play there because the software is so horrible and you could randomly dc in big pots also because there is no big games available

CEO

Are Victory pros seen by all the rooms or just Victory only?

@Dr Livingstone: All the pro's play on there. Some play ALOT and the software developer won the International Gaming Award 2 years in a row so I wouldn't call them horrible. There is 25-50 nl games running everyday, they are mostly heads-up games but your welcome to join them. We're happy running as many various game sizes as possible from FREE and .01/.02 up to 25/50 nl.
The pro's mostly play the 2/4 Euro games and the 5/10 nl.

They also play the rake race $500 free prize winners all the time in heads up matches.

@Blackstone: Victory is part of a network so you'll be able to see their screen names and battle them from any skin on there. The team members that play the most often are Keith Gipson/Jonathan Little/Alec Torelli/Andrew Robl/Brian Rast/Harry_DeBeng/TheMaven.
When they're not flying around in tournaments, you'll find Lee Markholt, Paul Wasicka, Jason Lavallee, James Obst and Danny Wong.

Antonio Esfandiari and Sara Underwood play as well and handle all the special freeroll winners as the bounties or competitors depending on the special promotion each week.

Odonkor1 and Erik Backlund were just added to the team, but Odonkor1 won $850,000 in one day recently so he's kind of amazing so BE CAREFUL : )

I mentioned this probably a few months ago or whatever it was, but I think the biggest problem is still Everleaf. The skin is not very good and just complicates things more. When I play I want it straight forward and easy to do everything...not to mention a bunch of games going. Oh well, I'll give you guys credit for trying more than a lot of the smaller sites do

[QUOTE=vpCEO;19435116]Victory doesn't have to make "claims" about anything. It's just clear cut facts.
Simply go to www.pokerscout.com and look at this exact moment in life and you'll see that Everleaf has more cash players then BODOG online and is nearly tied with BETFAIR in which both have billions of dollars and a half a decade headstart.
Then go back to January 31st the day before Victory went live and notice that the network had 600% less players on that day...
/QUOTE]
God, you 'dont claim' well you sure 'make out' victory made this grow. What bull and dude you know it. Most of this growth is due to a merger. And btw nice marketing.... Tell the world your doing great and people will start to believe, but on here players aren't dumb and they see the stories and have realised exactly what your doing.

ohh and most of that 'growth' is private and we cant play because they have nothing to do with victory so please ......

+1 the merger occurred the week before Victory joined the network and then Victory came in and took the credit. All the merger traffic are at the cash games which are private and no one on the network can access, including Victory (explaining the Poker Scout bump). I was pumped and looking forward to market Victory, but when I contacted support to find out how we can access the private cash games under the more tab, I was told they are private games inaccessible by anyone who came in under Everleaf.

Victory has a great spokesperson who is excellent at speeches in their CEO and the capability of truly making an impact on a small network, but it has yet to happen. I am not trying to be a pisser, I think the potential is there, it is just amusing to read all about the 700% growth and still not have one single sng take off.

I play for a moderate living mass tabling on Pstars low stakes Full Ring Limit Holdem and only give a small percentage of my action to other sites due to Stars's nice VIP program. And as of yet I have not opened an account on Victory. I was excited about the birth of Victory and I feel the CEO did a good job defending himself against some uncalled for attacks on himself, a few months ago. I like the "attitude" marketing that Victory is doing. I also am impressed with VPCEO's attempts at a grassroot campaign by his extensive marketing in magazines and even a foray into MMA a few UFC's back. I like that VPCEO and others have for the most part answered questions posed by players. I hope for players sake that another company can come along and compete with the big two but Victory still has a long way to go.

What I don't like:

1. The claims of huge growth.... this is not the "real case" and VPCEO should give 2+2ers a bit more credit.

2. The rake. It's just too high compared to most sites (US tables or Euro's) especially for a game like Limit Holdem where a 1BB/100hnds is considered excellent. The rakeback of 40% just doesn't cut it.

3. Traffic. Obviously with the money VPCEO is spending along with his teams enthusiasm traffic will pick up, but a sites growth is like a snowball, the more it rolls down the hill the faster it goes and the bigger it gets. So far, it's still balancing on the edge.

4. Deposit problems. The wait time before being able to access the funds is not what recreational players want. Nor anybody for that matter. Also options are too limited currently on the site.

5. Pro's. I don't understand why you hired as many as you did with many not having much name recognition to the recreational player. + the educated players are not overly impressed with pro's and likely wouldn't be attracted to a site based on who they sign. I think the money would be better spent giving a handful of players 100% rakeback to promote site growth which would then encourage more players to sign up.

6. Smoke and Mirrors. Often the CEO has been asked a serious question and his next post shows a pic of a naked model, or a VP party or something that has no bearing on 99.9% of Victory Pokers players. This should stop as the vast majority of posters in the Victory sponsored forum want the best for Victory, whether they choose to deposit or not. People don't need their intelligence to be insulted. Say it like it is and people will respect you. Call it like you'd want it and only a poor loan manager will respect you.

Best of luck Victory and I look forward to meeting some of your reps/pro's at the 2+2 party and at the M.E.

@the last 5 comments: I appreciate and can handle any & all comments but I cant go over the same things over & over. 100% of my "claims" have been backed up by FACTS.
If you choose to take the drama filled route and think that nobody can succeed then that's fine but I've fought with diversity my whole life being a young entrepreneur that the older business men didn't take seriously until I showed them. In this case I'm showing you guys fact after fact and your just spinning it to ask another question or make another rumor filled statement.
When my marketing efforts increase, we have the 3rd largest team on earth, we sponsor dozens of new poker news sites, we're featured in every publication globally, we have hundreds of affiliate deals, but you still want to say that I'm making "claims" when I give you photos and links to every single one of these FACTUAL statements.
I wont let you call me a liar, I've done nothing but try to help and be active on every level to improve the overall poker community.

I have a long road ahead of me but have come out of the gates much better then expected. I will continue to just "show you" until you start believing the photos/websites/pro's/growth/articles/etc............
http://tweetphoto.com/25451556

So are you saying because you bought advertising in a bunch of magazines that's a great thing? Are you saying because GPWA of which you paid to become a part of has you on the cover that is to amaze people?

I hate to break it to you. But you'll find a lot of companies in a lot of magazines that they paid for. It doesn't make them successful, it means they spent money and nothing more.

The more I read through all the diatribe you write in all of your replies it's no wonder people hate and I mean hate Victory.

I'll leave you a new slogan for Victory.

Victory spends it's money on Pro's and Ho's

And you can +1 that all day.

VPCEO,
I honestly think your missing the point that several posters are making. No one is wishing you to not suceed. Even if a player has no intention of ever playing on Victory it's still in his best interest to have this site do well as it will force the big two to stay competitive and not try to monopolize this whole industry. Players are simplay stating the facts as they see them. And to "perceive is to believe" is even more important than reality.
Currently players are not happy that there is not enough traffic and one poster even said he's not interested in the fact that the whole network picked up 600% since Victory joined (along with a merge of other sites) with many tables that are deemed private. What he cares about is the fact that he can't find a Sit and Go to run. This is his perception be it reality or not. It is your job to try and convince him that:
a) he is not playing at the right times and suggest a better time
b) to forthcomingly admit that this is the current case but ask for some patience and let him know that this is your top priority.

To say that Victory has already met year growth expectation tells this player that you don't think his problem is a priority until January. Your very comments designed to reassure people that Victory is doing great in reality have the opposite effect. This is not an energy drink business where the difference between one drink and the other is what model is drinking it from the customers perspective. This is a serious business where players are becoming as savvy as the owners. We are not dumb people and to resort to childish ways and say things like "i'll show you" and yada yada is just a non clever way of not adressing the valid points that even your most loyal supporters have brought up. Accept a bit of criticism and conceed that not everything is perfect and give examples of what you are trying to do to improve things in some of the areas that Victory is currently lacking in, as you have done quite well in the form of Traffic by keeping us up to date on what advertisements you have done.
I personally doubt I can play Limit cash tables on Victory due to lack of volume, but I would like to give Victory a chance. My question for you is do you offer any Limit tourneys and at what stakes and times? If you are considering offering them I'd be happy to play them if the stakes are at least 10 dollars and would play them often as a token of my support to you personally and for Victory as a company. Best of luck, -Sect7G

The point of the thread was "Wondering what Victory has added to the network"
I've explained myself and proven the facts on every level. If the company/team/marketing/pr/player base/revenue/affiliates/expansion/sponsorship/media/staff/wasn't growing non-stop then you guys would have a better reason to try to rip me apart and I would understand it better. But for me to keep going over things is not productive. I'm here to help and discuss things unlike any other of the 500 poker site owners on the market.

I never said everything was perfect, but I took a gamble on a small network, I spent millions on ad campaigns a team of pro's and a staff and it's working much better then I expected across the board so Im happy to answer any new questions or have intelligent discussions but I'm not here to argue. You keep bringing up me insulting the intelligence of TwoplusTwo members but I'm only here spending so much time because of how much I respect the readers even when many are looking for any angle to ridicule me. I've been completely open about every situation, I'm sorry I dont have 100% rakeback accounts for you or specifically have limit hold em tournaments but I do have 40% rakeback and have lots of cash games for now.

There are hundreds of suggestions that come in everyday, I cant listen or agree with all of them. I can only do what my pro's and advisors recommend and ultimately what I feel is right in my heart.

I do want you to know that I appreciate how much thought and energy you guys are putting into writing about Victory whether it's good or bad I dont mind, as long as it's productive.

There is only 2 options.
a) Players on 2+2 go out of their way to try and cut down a proven self starter and want no other options in the online Poker world but FT and Stars.

b) VPCEO is convinced that his site is destined for success and asks 2+2 for feedback and then is over defensive when people give reasonable criticisms/suggestions and says he is already doing all these things above and beyond what he ever could have expected. (despite 90% of different posters saying it's not even close to good enough)

All of this on both sides is opinions with biases. What I do know for fact is I requested a Limit Holdem Tourney to be run on Victory, just like every other half decent site offers and I get the response that I can't do that for you.
Why can't you do this for me? Why can't you inform the poster who wanted to play a Sit and Go on Victory when the best time is to log in and try to find a Sit and Go running. This is how you get customers. And if you checked how much money I've paid in rake in the past year, you'd be very happy to get customers like me.
As for saying people are just rehashing ideas in an attempt to cut you down is way off base and you are likely a little oversensitive since you were told this stuff when you were a kid and now that you've climbed the Mt. Everest of Energy Drinks you feel that poker players should automatically give you the respect that someone like Lee Jones has earned over a lifetime of serving Poker players.
VPCEO you have proved nothing so far in the Poker World. This is fact. You have spent a lot of money advertising that anybody with a lot of money could do. Just a suggestion perhaps you could read the CakePoker Thread and see how Lee Jones conducts himself, and there is curently more criticism about cake poker then Victory. It will serve you best when talking to 2+2ers.
For the record I personally defended you in an ugly thread that some yo-yo started in an attempt to call you a criminal. I personally congratulated you on your smart marketing idea to sponsor UFC fighters. I call it the way I see it with no malice or nut-hugging involved. Best of luck to you, -Sect7G

Edit: Pstars does discuss these things with their players on a Panel so you're not unique.

I have no choice but to comment and it goes back to the 6 figures spent on advertising to North American market.

It's 130AM or so Eastern as I write this, that means it's 10:30PM Pacific time.

I am logged in from my home room and guess what.

I see 7 NL games going yes, 7.

1 cent 2 cent (2)
5 cent 10 cent (2)
25 cent 50 cent (2)
$1/$2 (1)

A total of 47 players.

There's 1 tournament running a micro madness 10 cent tournament and absolutely no one registered to play in any other tournaments.

I looked at all 47 players playing and it was 34 european based and 13 north american which I included Canadian players.

I am going to ask you where do you spend this 6 figures a month advertising at?

Because wherever it is, it isn't working and if you believe it is, by all means you're the only one that is.

The topic has changed in it's conversation and there's been a lot of great posts made and you have dodged and changed subjects not once but twice maybe more about your magazine spreads.

Do you do this to help increase your link counts? I can't play on Victory due to the networks rule of one account per person. My interest as a player is to see how Victory improves the network and to be honest and you can take offense, the only thing I have seen or heard of is Pro's, Ho's and you spending money.

As the prior poster said anyone with money can spend it. Give me six figures a month and I can spend it too. I'll market Blackstone Cherry Cola and put my ads in all the prints of the beverage market. Does that mean I'll sell a lot of cola? No. Does that mean I'll create a buzz? Maybe. Does it mean I have a great product? Absolutely not.

You state you give 40% rake, that's nothing. A lot of the rooms on the network have been doing that for years. You haven't done anything that hasn't been done before in that regard.

I went back as you suggested and looked at Poker Scout. Based on other posts and a timeline I was able to reconstruct, the increase in traffic is indeed what other posters have said due to the network merger. While it's true you have some traffic, Victory is far from the reason it has happened. I do wish you success and don't mistake the message, you've opened yourself up to the questions by paying $120,000 or so to be here. Did you really think people were going to come here and kiss your behind because you are Victory and have Pros and Ho's? Again your concept has been done before and will continue to happen elsewhere. You weren't the first room to bring pro's to the network and won't be the last.

Good luck and I mean that with all sincerity.

@Sect7G & Blackstone: I'm sorry if you've taken offense to any of my comments, there's not a single word written towards you personally. I've said over and over that I accept your criticisms and do agree that you've made valid points. I have a HUGE mountain to climb before I can do what FT or Stars is doing and I've never said once that I can or ever will be as big as them. I'm not trying to be FT or Stars, just like I never tried to be Red Bull in my past company.
I think Lee Jones has put in a great amount of work and earned his stripes. The CAKE network would have been my obvious choice if it wasn't for the restrictions placed on it's Skins and I would have always been behind Doyles site in priority.
With Everleaf I feel like I have my own network staff because of how helpful they've been on every level. Victory is not the sole reason for Everleafs 600% growth over the last few months but I live in Malta, I see their gross amount of cash game players and I know how many I have each day so I know how big my % is of the overall networks success. That doesn't really do anything for you guys, it's irrelevant if I have 47 sign-ups a month or thousands upon thousands like I do, because when you play on Everleaf Skin you have access to all of the players on the network.

As far as a "Limit Hold Em" tournament, please email lupe@victorypoker.net and she will request it for you immediately.

In regards to network traffic on Pokerscout.com, please look in the daytime since that is when it is evening for European players. The majority of our players are from Europe and Scandinavian markets since our largest affiliates are based overseas.
The networks 24 hour peak of cash game players was 964 and BODOG's was 1,004

If there are other specific questions/comments or concerns, please feel free to write them out 1 by 1 instead of in "speech" format and I will do my best to answer them or direct you to a staff member that can.

I do appreciate the continued efforts you guys are putting into the good/bad of my company. I read all of it and discuss situations and things that you bring up with various pro's and consultants to get their outlook on things.

I wish you both continued success in poker and in life.

Just a quick fact-check i'm 95% sure victory is the biggest skin on everleaf so what Dan has surly added is a lot of players and liquidty. As far as any claims of what he's doing wrong or right bussinesswise I have no idea, but I do know traffic is up over 100% SINCE the merge.

I really believe that this site has a lot of potential. But its difficult to deposit money and theres less games.

I cant deposit on stars or fulltilt ever since UIGEA came in effect two weeks ago, so I suggest that you find a way to make depositing easier for US players. Stars has found a prepaid method that works (for now anyway). As a player and gambler that loves the game, I just want to play multi-table poker under my own house at my low stakes... just like someone in the club waiting at the bar just wants a ****ing cocktail. I feel like UIGEA is the slow and fat ass ugly bartender in the club, so if theres anyway you could make depositing easier, I would switch sites, and I dont think I'd be the only newcomer.

I think Fleyshman is genius and I cant really blame him for focusing on the Europe market, but I really want to know if its in his best interest to focus on the US depositing issue

@itsthegoods: Everleaf just recently added 2 new options last week. There is a thread within this forum about it called "New deposit options"
I am doing a ton of extra marketing in Europe/Canada but America is important to me.
50% of the worlds market of active real money players is from the US but it is a difficult situation. Everleaf has over a dozen options and will continue to add as many as they can since it's important to them and all of us.

It's frustrating for me when I have guys like Antonio Esfandiari who are getting and are going to get SO MUCH TV time this Summer and for years but so many players that see him and Wasicka type guys on TV wont be able to deposit that easily due to UIGEA.

I will keep marketing and Everleaf will keep adding new options and we will keep "Fighting the good fight" : )

Do you have rakeback?

Yes, we offer 40% rakeback. Email lupe@victorypoker.net for help setting up your account.

Cheers,
Chris