Here is the first key issue:

If you were not really ranked #1 in poker coaching and you lied about it, that has given me enough information as a potential consumer to know that I should not trust you. It tells me you are willing to lie and/or exaggerate to get students rather than simply rely on the quality of your product.

When you delete the track record of people asking "Why are you #1? Who ranked you?" it prevents the consumer from making informed decisions.

Here is the second key issue:

You're right that I wouldn't go into a lawyer's office and tell potential clients he's a bad lawyer. You know what I would do if he was lying, such as saying he's the "#1 ranked divorce lawyer" and it isn't true? Either sue him or try to get his license removed.

But poker coaching isn't a regulated industry. That means it is even more important that information be freely shared and easily obtainable to potential consumers. The is especially true since the consequences for being a fraud poker coach is pretty close to 0. You just keep all the money you've made and go on with your life like some past coaches have done in the past.

What you say again is mostly correct. I'd do exactly the same like you did.


No student feedback ever gets deleted. I have a long track record. Please also read the post above yours (that's the irony of life). Have chosen to not comment on it for now, but i really had to smile since the student never told me he had coaching with TannenJ.

But what would you think if i posted my opinion of other coaches in their threads (for example this post above)?
Do you care enough about the community to post this in TannenJ's thread?!

So far my style was to not do it. I usually believe in "live and let others live", but that may change without reciprocation.


Still waiting for Mods to answer/moderate

I really don't want to get sidetracked here with "what if?"

Let's stick to the point:

How were you ranked #1? You could have EASILY answered this several times by now. As a 2+2 lurker for many years, I have yet to ever see someone avoid a question like this and constantly try to change the subject when they are innocent.

Your positive feedback honestly doesn't mean almost anything. People don't like to post negative comments when they see a wall of positive comments. This has already happened several times before where a scamming coach had a huge wall of positive feedback. This isn't a "what if?" hypothetical, it's happened, and they took the poker community for a lot of money.

So again.... how were you ranked #1? And if you were not, potential students have a right to know you were willing to exaggerate claims and/or lie in an attempt to get more business.

Hackhack,

please read the OP ///

I have answered the #1 ranked question. Part of every business is marketing. Like it or hate it. I've done smart things and not so smart things in that area.
Maybe one day you'll build something yourself, then you'll understand that you can't make everybody happy and doing not so smart things is part of it.
You will also undertand that you should focus on the people that you are trying to help and not on random people.


I was asked by ChicagoRy (who i respect a lot for his work here) to change the title. I didn't react because the criticism before came from people who are not my students nor prospective student. When ChicagoRy messaged me, i immediately changed it. It took some days, because a Moderator took longer than usual, but ok.

I'll invite you like every other critic to get a free coaching lesson. But you have to record it and make it available to the public, so everybody can judge.

No critic has ever taken me up on this, so what else am i supposed to think?!
There's nothing to hide. I meet up with students in real life. Some of them became friends for life.


Negative feedback / Successful Students:

(Please READ the thread, most of your questions are answered if you really cared to read.) The problem i have with people like you is that you just come in without reading the thread and posting whatever you feel like. And then you expect to get taken serious...


Students Success:

I have students who crush really hard, and then those who struggle. I help everybody who asks for help and puts in time to work on their game. That's my job as a coach and i get raving feedback even from those who are not as successful, because they know i do EVERYTHING in my power to help them.

Poker is a zero sum game (minus rake). If one person wins another one has to lose.

What i believe to be the case is that my students are the most successful. You can see this by the feedback posted. You can ask i rarely ever ask people to post in the thread. The majority of feedback is voluntary.
Just based on that, compared to many other coaches, i am very proud of the hard work and the success. (btw, from there came the #1 idea)

Negative Feedback:

My job as a coach is not to give a winning guarantee. My job is to help, help and help.
That's what i do with lots of passion.

The reason why not every not-so-successful student will post a negative review is because they understand that it's not the coaches fault if they don't follow the advice / do the homework or whatever it may be.

The reason why i don't have much negative feedback is because i help everybody who is asking for help. No-limit.

If somebody isn't making money, it is because they chose to give up.

I disagree with a lot of what you said and a lot of the other things you said are simply not true--mainly that if someone fails at poker it's because they gave up. It's just not even remotely close to reality--but I don't have the time or energy or desire to correct it right now. I'm sure others will.

I do want to ask you if feel justified in ignoring my polite PM merely because you guessed that I'm not a perspective student. How do you even know that's true? Do you think my question is valid? Why did it take ChicagoRy messaging you to take action?




FWIW, I am sincere when I say that you're probably a decent coach who provides a decent value. But it's incredibly obvious that despite being a decent coach you're also over-selling yourself at a near level of "complete misrepresentation." Apparently the approach you take works. Gordon Gekko would be okay with it, but I'm just not sure I'd trust him enough pay him for his professional services.

OP,

You continue to use semantics and smoke screens to dart around the meat of the issue, and I find it to be a combination of pathetic and disgusting.

I have a coaching listing here, but I don't have a negative agenda. This is the reason I've gone out of my way to post recommendations in other coaches' threads.

I commend you for being confident in the services you offer, and based on what I've seen, you're probably a competent poker coach, as Keyser estimated. No one ever suggested otherwise.

The problem is that you have 1. no problem whatsoever with making things up to attract business and/or 2. such a poor grasp of the English language that you're incapable of marketing your services without coming across as someone who has no problem whatsoever with making things up to attract business.

Allow me to be as clear as I can. Being ultra-confident in your services and having good feedback doesn't justify claiming that you're "#1 Ranked" because there are no rankings for poker coaching. There's no debate to be had here; you're either willing to concoct falsehoods or you literally don't understand what a ranking is. Either one or both of these things is necessarily the case given your assertion. Period.

It would be nice if you'd stop covering your ears and shouting, "LA LA LA! I CAN'T HEAR YOU LOL!" Answer my questions. They're fair. I invite you to enter my coaching thread and pose as many questions as you'd like. Since I don't make claims that have no basis in reality, answering them would be quick and easy.

By the way, it's pretty silly to have a ~75,000-hand sample in your first post. I played a similar stretch of $500/hour poker once, but it's not in my coaching thread because I'm not full of ****.

You didn't answer the #1 ranked accusation in the original post (if you did, cut and paste the response directly) as you continue to simply avoid the question. I'm going to continue to drive the point home with the doctor comparison.

Claiming you are the #1 ranked surgeon in cardiac surgery because you think you're really good at operating and have happy patients doesn't make you the #1 ranked cardiac surgeon. Likewise, just because you think your patients have had the best results doesn't mean you're the #1 ranked cardiac surgeon. If no one actually ranked you #1 and if you don't have proof the your patients have the best results it makes you a liar regardless of how good your services are. You can be talented and still commit fraud.

Seriously stop and think about this, because it doesn't sound like you get it which is why I'm using the surgeon example. I can be the BEST cardiac surgeon in the world, but I can't tell people that "if someone isn't healthy, it's because they've chosen to give up" without being a liar. I can't tell people "My procedures have the highest success rate" when I have no data to back this up (the best cardiac surgeons likely take on really tough procedures and this would lower their success rate).

Do you see the similarity here and get my point? The point is very intelligent and successful people can still make unsubstantiated claims to get more business and this is fraud.

Here is the google definition of fraud:

fraud/frôd/
Noun:
Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
A person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.

Isn't that EXACTLY what you just did with your "#1 ranked coach" comment?

Lastly, you made several comments in your response to my post in an effort to discredit me such as "Maybe one day you'll build something yourself, then you'll understand that you can't make everybody happy and doing not so smart things is part of it" and "The problem i have with people like you is that you just come in without reading the thread and posting whatever you feel like. And then you expect to get taken serious..."

These comments should stay in your thread. They show you're either quick to try to make little attacks at people or severely lack reading comprehension and reasoning skills (at least outside of the realm of poker). You have no information anywhere which suggests I haven't "built something" or haven't read your thread. I've even done both!

Anyways, maybe this is why people don't want to post negative comments about you in their coaching thread? Because when they make reasonable responses or have reasonable questions you simply try to discredit them? After all, "If somebody isn't making money, it is because they chose to give up," so anyone who thinks your coaching is bad has clearly given up anyways.

I think your comments are on the mark, hack, and it's pretty obvious you know what you're talking about. But fwiw I think you're beating a dead horse about this #1 ranking thing.

I don't want to speak for Gordon but I imagine he agrees that the #1 ranking thing was a mistake and that he took his "BestPokerCoaching" advertising strategy too far.


His response is obviously a political "neither confirm nor deny"/"depends on what the meaning of 'is' is" type thing, which is likely to be the most we get out of him no matter how much we argue. Which is okay, it's a fine tactic. Personally I think he'd come off better if he simply said something along the lines of: "I truly believe that I provide a good value to my students --(my note: it's likely that he does)-- but sometimes I take my marketing too far, and I apologize for #1-ranking-gate and I understand that it could have been misleading to some readers. In the future I'll attempt to make sure that my aggressive marketing doesn't go too far into the realm of misrepresentation."


There, just quote that. :-) I'm seeking employment in the rapidly growing industry of "poker coaching public relations." I charge $3.50 per hour, pm me. :-)

lol, I think thinkitthough should also be coach at marketing

more I think, more I believe that these "scandals" isnt coincidence (not giving out screen-name, new subject for this thread, legal cheating ad). Its good for him, if some random trolls pumping & pumping up his thread every day.

Going back to times. I was against him because I felt the same - he can't be a good coach. I mean, I didn't have any experience with him - no videos, not getting session from him, nothing. But hiding his screen-names was very suspicious to me. You can find my comments in this thread.

My friend have his coaching package. He is very close friend to me, basically 5 years ago we grew up together from 2nl to mid-stakes. We played full-ring and after that heads-up but then our ways splitted - I went husngs, he stayed HU.

He bought HU mastermind, time-to-time I visited my friend who showed me his [thinkitthrough, OP] some videos. Call it stealing or whatever. Usually I dont like any vids. If I watch CR, DC or whatever vids - damn they are booring. Almost during every video I fall into a sleep because they are soooooooooo long and booooring, the same ****, basically nothing to learn, atleast for me.

I have visited and been subscribed members almost every coaching site, but unfortunately I only can recall 2 coaches who were worth their money. One was in CR and another on dragthebar (delete this part, if its advertising or something like that, but I want to give out my thoughts).

But when friend showed me Gordon vid on his place, I was little bit wtf. Vids ARE VERY SIMPLY and SHORT! He basically giving his thoughts in first 2-3 minutes, then repeating little bit and nothing complicated. We couldnt even finish our first beer, when video was over!

I have never-ever hired coach because 99% 2p2 coaches are even worse than me. But If I need help again at some day (right now playing poker so rarely), then I definitely willing to pay thinkitthrouh and today he is the only one who I really would hire. Obviously my thoughts may be change in a year or so.

Also I think EVEN if he isn't best coach in the world terms of winning, even if he is WORST coach in terms of winnings, then I still believe he is BEST TEACHER in the world. He can turn losing player into winning faster than any other coach.

I watched his pokerstrategy.com video a few days ago (only first 4 minutes lol) and I cant agree more. Maybe I am protecting thingithrough because we have pretty similar poker-view. I agree with 100% him - thats is the reason why I rarely post on 2p2, because you learning and concentrating on wrong things.

I am not throwing my thoughts randomly - I have lots of proofs. I have played different games alot. Few millions hands FR, 300k+ hands HU cashgame, 10 000+ HUSNG-s, little bit PLO. I have experiment in my game a lot, I have learned new things from different games.

WHAT WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT: EVERY Game, absolutely in every ****ing game, the largest crushers were players, who played the game differently than average 2p2-er! Like calling 4bets, like never 3betting, like 3betting A LOT, like cbeting 40%, like cbeting 100% etc. And I think thinkitthrough isn't average 2p2-er.

He know very well that most 2p2 **** is wrong, like "dont call 4bets", "balance your range", "dont bluff a fish", "merge your range", "dont bet because worst hand isnt caling" blabalabalabalbala. My game stagnated at one point when I stayed on 2p2 strat threads, 2012 for me its nothing to learn here. Its time waste!

Oh my bad english, but my thoughts.

Finished the course, some reviews.

Gordon is NOT teaching how to make tricks and does NOT teach you how to play one spot in particular. He teaches proper poker, so you might think "how is it supposed to help me, I need edges, not fundamental poker".

That's just wrong. I've tried like 5 coaches (for 6max), and he's the only one who's not just being right about what he says, he actually teaches how he thinks the way he does.

And that's like gold, because now I don't need anymore coaches or anything, I can review my game and think the same way he does, use his mindset and it's damn effective. I was already beating the game, but now I'm just crushing people I thought were top regulars, who have so many obvious leaks in their game.

I'm not saying Gordon is the #1 coach since I didn't try every coaches out there, but I don't see how one could make any better course for 6max.

Thanks again Gordon, wanted to put that review just because that course is worth more than it costs, and since I play on .fr there's pretty much noone here that I'll play against

gordon actually studied business and marketing thats why he appears so cheesy Whatsoever I think he's a competent coach (for smallstakes/microstakes players)- He exaggerates alot about his results and the reviews of his courses and I dont particularly think they are worth the money but in the end he seems to be a decent player.

Well, after all that happened last year, i'm obviously very happy to see what you've written below / in your post about your friend (didn't quote it all).

To everybody else, i don't take this stuff personal. There are bitter people out there and some will keep posting. Sometimes because of my own fault, sometimes because they are haters.

Also, you said you thought of "stealing" when watching my videos on your friends screen.

Lets face it, i'm not stupid, and i know that people share videos with their friends.
I have a system in place that Yourdoom also uses. It logs IP's and if a video gets ripped, we'll know from which account it was.

On the other side, as long as its only a friend and not like 5-10 people, i'm 100% fine with sharing.

So please don't feel guilty.




You can sign up there and watch the full version .

But yeah, that's why i might get overconfident at some points and go over board with "marketing", because i do have more than 1 example of turning total loosing players into mid, even high stakes crushers - in less than a year


One of them - i posted this in the thread at an earlier point - recently became the runner-up of the Irish Poker Open (Thomas Beer is his name).



Thx. Yeah, as a player this was awesome, because the opponents didn't realise what was going on. They had their holy "dogma" which they stuck to blindly. I love training sites for that reason like nobody else on the planet


It's for the same reason i get unjustified criticism here from people who haven't even taken coaching, nor know me.
Most people are not open to look outside their own window. They "play it safe".

(Fwiw, I get some well deserved kicks in my ass as well. I do mistakes of course, but that's part of doing things different / extraordinary.
If you do what everybody does, you'll have no trouble. But you'll be like "everybody" which is normal, but boring and ... not successful)

To students/prospective students/ haters / fans / everybody .

I'm flying to Europe in a month to do some Skiing in Austria ("Hintertux", near Innsbruck). One student who lives close will also join. If you're (student, non student, hater, lover) near or like skiing, feel free to come along.


Starting October 30th for 5 days.

Thx a lot for the nice feedback!

Hey Gordon

Iv read this thread a couple times now and watched some of your vidz and have have decided to take the plunge and invest in Double your 6max winrate, some people have bad things to say about you but most seem to have good things to say so i am gonna complete the course and make up my own mind..

From next week i will have a 6 month break in contract from work and am going to use this time to complete your 6max course and really learn the game.

I wiil take your advice and I will definitely do all the homework

I will also post my honest feedback here when I have completed the course for anyone who wants to read it.

Thanks and Cant Wait to get started woooo

[05/10/2012 12:17:50] Johny (last name edited out) : Hi Gordon, allthough im not the best student of yours just wanna thank you for your efforts ... and allthough i failed at pretty much all of your tasks you gave me i make somekind of a progress anyway
[05/10/2012 12:17:58] Johny: and now just wanted to show u
[05/10/2012 12:18:10] *** Ivan hat pic gordon.JPG gesendet ***
[05/10/2012 12:18:21] Johny: k wish u all the best
[05/10/2012 12:18:42] Johny: bye


(Tasks i give is like creating videos focusing on one topic, posting x # of hands about a certain topic, among many others. I know not all students will always do all homeworks.
And i don't wanna post this to encourage, but to motivate to do even better.)

I don't know if posting this is a brag or beat. Because i think this player is extremely talented and could easily beat NL 400/600 if he works stronger on homework.

We made progress anyways. (The guy contacted me on pokerstrategy.com . Like many players, he looked to improve his game when facing a serious downswing.)




Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Looking forward to hearing from you! You can send me your name via pm if you want.

Also, the not so nice things said about me are all non-poker related comments from people who don't know me, never took coaching and are competing coaches (surprise!).

There is or will be perhaps some (semi)negative comments in the future. While i strive to make 100% happy, i know that 99% is all that will be achievable

Great to have you on board!

Cheers for the fast response

Cant pm had to setup new account after hacking but my names Sean.No matter where you go always gonna be haters.

Looking forward to working with you ::

Thx Sean, lets start!

Hey,
I always wanted to post one of these and always planned to when I had the results to. But heres something for people to look at to be able to go to gordon and ask for coaching! I really do owe a lot to him, I barely learned how to play hu 12 days ago. I consider anyone who really wants to push there game to a high level and find out the most effective way to make money to go to gordon! As a coach hes a phenomenal coach and discusses a lot of spots, although when hes teaching me from time to time i tilt him because I ask him the same questions, I make dumb mistakes and sometimes I forget to do things that he tells me to do and yells at me A LOT, he really pushes me hard, and I have total respect for that and the yelling well even though I don't like it to much I know he does it because he cares . BTW I dont think he yells at every student just me because for every student he takes in he asks questions/wants to know where you want to get to and knows what it takes to get you to that specific destination obviously not nosebleeds but up to the highstakes and thats where I want to get to so obviously hes gonna be much harder on me to see if im just joking with him and wasting his time or im serious. BTW ur not gonna make it anywhere if you expect gordon to do more then 50% of the work.

Anyways heres my results (Low sample I know) but over that low sample you can tell I have majority of the fundamentals down, I still have tons of leaks and mess up a lot but yep, give me about 3 more weeks and I'll have a good amount of hands by then and a much better understanding of the game =)

http://imageshack.us/f/571/shoutouttogordon.png/

Wanted to post the graph where i started from 4NL/10NL but.. imageshack wont work where i lost like 10 buy ins(lol) before moving up in stakes


LOL also forgot to say:
I didnt play two of the days so today is day 10.

he also taught me how to run good.

Awesome! Thx for the mention, i hope we'll see an even nicer graph next weeks to come!


@everybody

"ImaChampion" had 6max coaching with me before and posted in the thread (1flightaway). For the big challenge i told him to blog etc and create one name for here and the bestpokercoachign forum.

We used the 6max to get deeper into cash games and to train his stamina. He will do very intensive coaching, more coaching than usual in return for some of his profits.

To make sure to see if he got what it takes, i'm extra tough on him. (also in order to not waste my time).

It's nice to start with an upswing after barely beating NL4 haha (due to rake of course).
We'll go through all limits using solid BR management.

Anyways, his blogs are boring as hell, but that's what hard work is gonna look like.
Once he moves up, it will be more interesting/fun.

@yelling:

Typically don't do that, you're an exception .

What i do though is tell the truth. So if a student makes a donkey play, i call it that. All in good fun, no mean spirits .

I use adult language at times, but more so because of lack of better education .

I am new to hus and i have an arragement with someone to teach me. Because i am knew and i want to learn all the things regarding HU i thought buying this product would be a good investment

I am kinda poker junkie and i put more than 6 hours per day studying because i want to be good, fast in this format and i thought whatever i learn it will benefit me

I only watched the first 4 videos and done all the homeworks but i would like to make a quickly review

1) Imo the videos are extremely fundamental and i didnt see in any video the coach winning following his strategy
2) There is an annoying thing in the sound which at first it didnt bother me but after the first 3-4 hours watching i was wtf
3) The homeworks are good exercises BUT they are done with REAL money something Gordon NEVER mentioned. I spent 1/3 of my roll to buy his product and i lost 200$ making my practise. Sure it could be the other way around but it didnt


I think that Gordon may be a good coach because he really knows to motivates. Honestly i didnt bother that the first 3-4 videos are very fundamental. It bothered me that i had to fool around with my bankroll in order to learn

I kindly request a refund and i wait for a reply

I dont know if this is good or bad critisism but i honestly feel kinda cheated that he didnt mention that the homeworks are playing with real money and make weird stuff

Hey man, ... (finally a not so happy review) ...

i'm really sorry that things haven't been going your way. You bought the course yesterday after exchanging PM's and asking questions. I don't publish pm's, but if you wish, you can make them all public in this thread to show everybody your questions and my answers.

You sound very frustrated and while i can totally understand this on an emotional level, in regards to the content of your post, well it's just not true what you're saying, so i have to correct that below.

I'm gonna clarify a few things, and i'm gonna be direct with you, perhaps not use political correct terms. Nevertheless, keep in mind that regardless i will always help you on your poker game. I don't take this personal - so don't feel bad about what you've written.
We've all done things out of frustration. It's fine.


In the past i have given refunds in rare cases, but it always wase a student who tried or who had extreme circumstances (serious family issue).



Short: I understand frustration if things don't go your way right away. But starting a new game (he started YESTERDAY), losing 4 buy-ins in a way the coach never advised, and then blaming everything on the coach is not fair.


Detailed:

* This student has just bought the course YESTERDAY

* Today he lost $200 (4 buyins). This could be a simple run bad, but i've also seen some questionable plays (hands he posted, where i took extra non-paid time to help him. So yeah, was a bit surprised as well about the post).

* He said i didn't "win" in those first 4 videos that were recorded. Well, do you want Cardrunners videos where in 95% of videos the coach wins ?! I don't fake videos. My videos are real and don't get deleted.
Anyways, the truth is that i didn't only win, but completely crushed...

=> Check the PTR of the account. You will see a two digit winrate vs regs, while running 13 Buyins below EV . So while i show all vids/hands, i totally crush the competition left and right. I ran 13 buyins below EV in a 5k sample and STILL managed to make a 2 digit profit. That's impossible unless you totally beat up the competition.


* The poker homework means playing with real money ?! Yes, of course ?!



I hope you understand that there is no way that i can give you a refund. It would be a sign of disrespect to every hard working student who pays good money for the course.

I really don't like your attitude. There is no problem with criticising me, but your attitude at the moment is that of a real loser/sucker.
You point fingers when everybody can see it is out of frustration. Not cool man.


Yeah, i know many other people will quote me on that and say what an ******* i am and how i am "not nice". But look, i'm not like the other people who would kiss your ass and give you nice words.

You can get slimy ass advice all around the world. I say what i think, even if it hurts me.
I do this because one person once told me truth when everybody else wouldn't.
And although i hated that person in that moment, i'm so ****ing thankful today.


Ok, in short:

I have given in rare cases refunds in the past. But never after one day. The student had to show me some serious work and dedication. Usually i say "do the homework" and if you don't succeed, i'm gonna send the money back.

What i am NOT doing and will never do is just send refunds after 1 day.


To prospective students:

If you're looking for a miracle, pray. One student once said that "HU Mastermind is as close to a magic pills than it gets".
But you still gotta be more patient than one day if you wanna win.

If you're looking for the best way, the most motivated coach, who is gonna help you even if you behave like an idiot, then you're welcome. My commitment has no ends. I love success and love helping others to get there.

My record speaks for itself. And one obviously frustrated guy is not gonna change that.

If you're looking for high quality stuff, if you're tired of bull**** videos, you're welcome.

If you take responsibility for your life and willing to work hard, you will always succeed.



GrindtoLive, you're still welcome like every other player to ask for my help. And there could be nothing better than adding you to the list of success.

It happened before and you can make it happen again.


Sincerely,

your commited coach Gordon

The only reason i was frustrated is because i didnt know that we have had to do certain things with real money as homework. At first it seemed dumb. I talked with Gordon and i will finish the courses first (ALL OF THEM) then write a review

I apologise if at some point i insulted Gordon but i want to clarify that the main reason i make an action like this was this above. Moreover i want to underline even though i bought it on Saturday, till Sunday i studied/played 12+ hrs

Somehow Gordon told me he is willing to help me but i have to give a fair shot and finish it all. Even i wrote a not so critisism this person really wants help. At least i have to recognise this

My apologizies if i offend you somehow but this is obviously not my goal. I am trully sorry. I will finish first the course and write a most accurate review