they seem to not want to answer this question, most likely because the number is probably low and makes them look bad?

however its a stupid question and stupid way to measure how good of a coaching company they are imo, and if they are going to answer the question with exact figures then its only fair to have exact numbers on how many of their students were total boneheads.

its like, if i coach 10 ppl on how to lose weight, 1 person follows the instructions to a T and loses tons of weight but the other 9 dont lose any because they were sneaking in KFC and pizza hut, am i a bad coach?

It is not about making anyone look or feel bad.

I don't care if it is a stupid question or not, to me it is just a very simple question. How many have joined, how many have finished. That is all.

No shenanigans, no yada yada wall of text. It is literally like 2 numbers.

LMFAO, you posted another wall of text instead of answering the question. So the numbers are that bad huh?

This.

Therein lies the hint as to why your questions are not taken seriously.

...but rather exploited as an opportunity to address other readers of this thread.

...and providing them with easy links to all of our testimonials and case studies of people making €10k-€30k per month in our program.

Sorry about that.

It's true.

10 sentences can feel like a "wall of text" to struggle through if all you read are memes.

All of these questions are answered in great detail in those few paragraphs.

...and answered by people who went through the program here.

(they are making €10k-€30k per month already during their time as a student).

Unfortunatelly...

...it does require reading the answer.

It must be frustrating.

...knowing that the answer you want so much is hidden in 5 paragraphs of text too hard to battle through in one sitting.

But wait.

There's good news.

We will have an equal-opportunity moment right now.

And provide a TLDR for less-than-avid readers such as yourself.

Ready?

Here we go.

BPC = the best
Number of finishers = many, many. OMG BIG number. More than all fingers on your body. Hard to count.

Hope that helps! Let me know if you have more questions- no forum poster left behind!

Wish you could do FR...

Who says that we don't?

In today's article "My story on the road to 30k Euro", BPC Team Member and 6-max Coach Leandro writes personally about his experience and how BPC changed his life.

Click here to read how he went from a "scared, shy guy that had a phobia of talking to new people"...

...to a valued BPC Team member,

...popular 6-max coach

...and CFP 6-max €30,000 finisher who "learned poker in a way that whatever new strategy I learn from now on, I know it’ll not be difficult to implement".

His interview at our last Poker Camp:



His graph:


Read his story in his own words here.

The program looks very interesting, I do have a few questions:

1)How many private coaching sessions per week can we get in NL 6-MAX CRUSHER program? And how long does each session last?

2)Is there always a split of 50/50 when it comes to profits, or do you also make deals with students, where if he makes x amount a month, the split becomes 60/40, 70/30, etc in his favor?

Thanks.

Hi, both questions heavily depend on the student, and can/should be answered as "it depends". I know that's not very satisfying, so here's a rough answer (with "it depends" disclaimer):

1)

1 hour per week - however not everybody will get 1h per week, and some will get more; and it might be; and it might take you some time and effort to "earn" private sessions - you likely won't get them until you reach around NL25-NL50, before that you will mostly work in a small study group of 4 guys of similar level and dedication (hours played) with a dedicated coach. Again, there are always exceptions but this is roughly the idea.

Private sessions are typically 1h, sometimes 2x 30 min, and so on. Group sessions as well, but daily Q&A are usually 30 min. That said, we don't cut short a student who has further questions and a 30 min session can run for 1h if there's high engagement etc

At the level where you're getting private sessions, you're actually also getting small group sessions + daily Q&A + forum hands reviewed in video by coaches. That's a whole lot of coaching, so in short, you should never worry you won't get enough. The more relevant question is always can you keep up - because we don't take coaching as getting on skype and chatting a bit with a buddy, but a serious learning session, for which the student prepares well in advance. It requires work on the part of the student.


...

2)

It's "always" 50:50 - however there are some exceptional cases like somebody who already plays (=winning) live MTTs, and joins 6max crusher. He will not pay 50% of the MTTs of course, but we find a compromise. For 99% of players this is not needed and it's 50:50.

It would not make sense that after the student starts winning more, he would pay a lower %, since the basic premise of a CFP program is - we invest into you while you're not winning, and you (re)pay when you win.

Unless you're talking about a scenario where the student already wins a lot before joining the program. In that case we would have to define "a lot" since let's say the basic goal is get to 10k/month, so winning, i don't know, 500 monthly AVG is not really significant to us.

We might say this student will progress faster, but it's often the guys with bad habits and some winnings that are the hardest to turn around, since they come with strong preconceptions which take time & energy to dispel.

I got to say that the 50-50 seems like a very big cut, considering that your competition offers a better rate.

It makes sense that a student would pay a lower % when he is winning more, because it will give him an extra incentive to do better, and would also allow him to move up the stakes quicker, which means you will also make more money because of his play at higher stakes.

Other than that, the program looks very attractive.

It is a big cut - for the student

First contracts were 100k and people paid 75% of it. As in any field, the more you pay, the more you actually get out of it (except university, there you just pay and keep paying the debt afterwards..). Those guys are the top crushers today, although the rest are catching up.

In reality if a player is not making money, goes through this program and now makes 10k+ per month for the rest his poker career, it's ridiculously cheap.

How much would you be willing to pay for someone giving you a skil of 10k+/month?

30k like current contract says? thats only 3 months of work. lets say you play for the next 10 years, and make 100k per year, thats 1 million.

Go from losing/breakeven player to 1 million in 10 years. Pay 30k to do it. Is it still a big cut?

Of course if the program "doesn't work", you won't make the million, but you also won't pay anything.

But it works -> 46 public case studies to demonstrate it can be done by anybody

I encourage you to watch the video interviews. People talk about changing their lives, it goes beyond poker strategy. Once you make enough that your life is importantly different and you are free, it's a whole new world. It's sounds "cheezy" to some, but that's what the finishers say, it's not a "marketing cliche".

As for competition, I propose that we don't have any real competition - at least I haven't seen anybody in the same class as BPC.

Sure, a Bentley is expensive compared to a Fiat, but in life - you always get what you pay for. Some are happy with a Fiat, some want the best money can buy.

If somebody is offering you a cheap deal, it's for a reason. If they could get away with charging more, they would. And you will find out that reason sooner or later. Or just ask them for results of their students and compare it to ours + the scale of it, that's what mean when I say we have no competition.

On your website, the contract is currently listed at $60k, not $30k. Did that change?

Out of 46 case studies, you only have 4 (6-max) players, who made $60k profit and 2 with $30k profit. The story of the most recent one published in January 2017 (who made $60k when finished the program).

The case studies that were published in 2018 came from players who have beaten the micros, and made $5k or $10k profit.


Do you have a coach who is currently playing and beating midstakes?

Do you have any players who finished your program, who are currently beating midstakes?

It's 60k, since it's 50:50 student's share is 30k, BPC's share is 30k.


Not sure how you counted but Hans made 100k for example. 2-3 posts above in this thread there's another guy who finished 30k 6max a few days ago. And so on..

Our 2018 monthly rankings:



Either they grind micros like the craziest russian bots out there, or they play a little bit higher

90% of coaches, saying of the top of my head. Specific program pages have details on the coaches. Some play up to NL5k. MTT guys of course play the highest stakes, so does Spin head coach Cog Dis.

It's safe to say most students in 60k programs are coached by 10k/mo players - more importantly we have a record of successfully transmitting this knowledge to the players, repeatedly.

I wish I could make some stories public or share some screenshots of "crazy soft games I just made 6 figures in the last few days" braggs lying around on my private skype, but the truth is we can only publish what people are comfortable with. After a point, most guys don't want to share their winnings anymore and let's face it why would they, most don't have a reason.

For example Hans turned his $50 into $100,000 inside the program, he then made it to $500,000 and after than stopped publishing graphs and results due to moving to highstakes. So who knows where he is today. 1-2 million I guess. Last I heard he was doing very well.

So in reality it's only a % of all the scores we can and do share, I wouldn't go so far to say it's only the tip of the iceberg because I also don't personally ask for updates too often after people leave the program.

It's pretty hard to get graphs for public consumption once people finish the program, either they continue to share it, or not. We do our best to collect all the data we have (and are allowed to publish), organize it and present it with detailed case studies.

Of course we still get "but that's only 46 people that made up to 100k" complaints, but what can you really say... To my knowledge, nobody is doing anything like this, you see a few graphs here and there, but that's it. And there's a good reason why we're the only ones.

Everybody who finishes 60k is beating low-midstakes inside the program already, after they are beating highstakes because they keep improving.

Hope that helps, GL!

Actually we do have our yearly Poker Camp in 2 weeks in Marrakech, many CFP finishers are coming again, I'll be there with the camera and try to get some fresh post-CFP brags on camera - I'll keep you updated

The poker dream is alive and well, it may not look like it from the outside looking in, but plenty of guys are doing it month after month, after month.

It's why the community aspect of BPC is such a strong point, because just surrounding yourself with high-stakes winners changes your perspective on what's normal and whats possible. And that's another cliche which happens to be true, but it's like the red pill - you either take it and see, or you don't and can't imagine.

Firstly, this will be a long post. I feel it’s necessary to articulate all of my points.

I recently made the mistake of paying the security deposit to join the CFP program, so you don't have to. The reason I joined CFP was to take my game to the next level. I am currently only beating the micros (2-10NL) on ACR for ~3.8bb/100 adjusted over 185k hands.



Not a great graph, right? You can see why I wanted some coaching. I did feel it was important to post this graph to show that, though I’m not a big winner at the micros, I have at least SOME idea of what I’m doing over a reasonable sample.
My thought was that I could get some great advice, plug some leaks - move up. That wasn't in the cards.

Before I list the reasons why I quit CFP, I will first take responsibility for the security deposit I paid and was not given back. I thought I’d done my due diligence. I felt I’d done enough research to be comfortable paying the security deposit - with the thought that “I’m either going to improve my game, play through my 5000E contract, and the biggest risk to me is a security deposit.” I recognize that it’s my responsibility. I learned a valuable lesson, the hard way. I did raise the following issues with BCP in order to qualify for having my security deposit refunded, using a statement in their FAQ as my basis for it to be returned – “Deep inside you know it is not the right thing to ask for refunds (unless the situation is very special / the content of the product doesn’t fit the description)”. Spoiler, the content of the product doesn’t fit the description.
Here are some the reasons you should not join CFP. I will exclude other BCP programs, as I’ve not actually gone through them, but I have serious doubts:

1) You will be rushed during your initial sessions with your coach, BCP favoring marketing research over substantive content. During my welcome session, which took a full 3 days to take place after signing up for their program, I was given less than the advertised time and was rushed by my “coach”. The substantive nature of the session was virtually zero. I asked what limits my coach was currently playing (50NL, sometimes 100NL though he doesn’t get a lot of action), and when the daily coaching sessions would be. I then spent the next 15 minutes answering where I’d seen advertising for their site, reasons which might have discouraged me from joining, whether I’d seen advertising after joining their program, etc.

2) You will be judged unfairly on your ability based on short samples in order to justify their requirement that you play using a VERY basic set of guidelines, which I will go over shortly. My coach asked me about my recent win rate. My most recent 27k hands I’m running at 1.02bb/adjusted. Anyone who plays any decent volume understands the variance that occurs during a sample of this size.

3) One of the more alarming things you will notice is the advice they advocate for beating the micros, which they call NOBs, is very bad. This program, which might work to plug massive leaks by losing players, is extremely poor advice for modern 6-max games – even the micros on ACR. They will require you to open to 4x UTG with your entire range, give strict guidelines for flatting/3betting ranges (which are awful, restrictive and are completely without nuance), which you must adhere to, to continue in the program. If you flop a pair or better, bet 3/4ths pot. If you improve, bet 3/4ths again. Less than that, bet half pot. Don’t have a hand on the river, bet ½ pot. They justify this by suggesting that a world renowned coach has data on millions of hands that support this. It would take too long to go over all of the reasons the advice they require is bad. You’ll just have to trust me.

4) A main selling point for CFP is the “best rakeback deal” on the internet. What they don’t tell you is that you will generate “rakeback” in the form of points to be used on their site, along with whatever standard rakeback you would normally get through any affiliate program. The only way you’re able to use these points is to pay your balance you owe to BPC. The kicker is that you may only do this for your LAST payment to complete your contract. Not able to complete the program? Can’t use the points. These points are given as an incentive to play under their affiliate program, which they generate money from and any rakeback you generate is counted toward your monthly profit. In theory, a player could breakeven over the entire course and eventually generate enough profit in rakeback to complete their contract. Of course, their skills wouldn’t have improved a bit.

5) The software they use is extremely clunky. Many of the videos for their training sessions do not work, are out of sequence, and are generally Gordon berating players for not doing this or that correctly. They practice tough love, and if you don’t like it – “**** you.” They will even suggest you have a small penis if you whine to them. That is not an exaggeration.

6) If you are an American player, best of luck. The training hours are inflexible and will take place on Berlin time. I don’t know about you, but I work full time. The weekly coaching sessions are at 12:00-1:00pm PDT and 4:00-5:00am Saturday/Sunday. Don’t worry, you get to submit HH’s for review, to which the answer will be: “Follow NOBs. Should have bet 3/4ths pot OTF with top pair.”

7) The coach for the Micro program is a coach who is, by his own admission, only beating 50NL. He went into the “Crusher” program beating 50NL – he’s still only beating 50NL. Does he regard this as a failure of the program? No, it is regarded as a BPC success story, as Gordon has promoted him to BPC Brazil coach. https://www.bestpokercoaching.com/le...d-to-30k-euro/

8) Want better coaching? Be a dedicated 80h per month player and get access to their winners program, until then – Follow NOBs.

So this is just food for thought. You have to make the decision for yourself, but this was my experience. I felt it was bad enough to make this long ass post detailing why. What will follow this will be Gordon or someone else from BPC purporting to refute these claims in some way while berating me, as they have with others in this thread. But the long story short is that BPC will make money off of you whether you win or lose - and that’s their model.

Hi srmjr23, thanks for the feedback, it's always very helpful to get it, as we're trying to continually improve. Nobody is perfect, and we're in a way inventing a field here so mistakes will be made.

Let's address your points in detail, as they deserve. You thought your post was long? Take this one on for size!

I'm very sorry about this. Just to clarify - are you saying you came prepared with a list of questions as we suggest, and you were not allowed to ask your questions?

Please help me understand how you were rushed, so we can fix this. Did the coach just end the call? Did he tell you "shut up and finish already"? I think not. So what exactly happened that made you "felt rushed"?

What is the advertised time of the welcome session? I'm not aware of any such time, but perhaps there is an old FAQ we need to fix? Can you point me to the advertised time promise for the welcome session? That would be very helpful.

You didn't realize there's no time limit and you could literally have been there for 3 hours if you had more questions? If you had to go early, you could have asked for another session.


The graph you posted above is 185k hands and shows you've won $150. Is that a fair sample? Let's just say it is, and I will go off that.

Yes you have to swallow your ego and realize that winning $150 over 185k hands means you are at a very basic level and, logically, the first step for you will be to follow very basic instruction. It's a step by step program, and you first learn how to walk, only then how to run.

This point is the most difficult for many people to accept, because watching poker videos/books on youtube or other training sites makes them "feel" that they know something - even if they don't win any money.

It's also a lot more exciting to feel you're learning "advanced" strategies and feel like you know something. It's a lot less sexy to say to yourself I am bad at this game and still at a very basic level.

Only results matter.

This is not about putting you down or anything like this. It's about being real and hearing the hard truth. These results suck, and you were right to get coaching. But you were wrong to then not listen to what the coaching told you to do.

I say this for everybody: if you are thinking about joining, know in advance that in CFP the coach is the boss. You will be told what to do, and mostly not asked what you want.

If you can't make money at this game, then nobody cares if you disagree with a strategy. In that case your opinion does not matter. I'm sorry if this is hard to hear for you, but you fit that category, based on your results.

Even at the micros, you have regular coaches who are beating NL50 and NL100, and Iron is beating NL600. You have guest coaches who are playing much higher. And you can submit hands and get video analysis by all of them + Rutger (NL600) and Danel (up to NL5k on soft sites).

If all of them tell you to follow a certain set of strategies, you simply have to swallow your ego no matter how "wrong it feels" to bet a certain size or whatever else they suggest.

They have cumulatively won so much money that a person wouldn't have to work a day in his life anymore. You've won $150 (or maybe you're even down overall in poker, i don't know if those 185k hands are every hand you ever played). Again, this is not to put you down. I'm actually trying to help you see the logic.

Imagine this is another field, like medicine. A group of well-know, experienced, well-paid surgeons suggest the same procedure. You're the guy in his 1st month of medical school who's watched a lot of ER shows, and you think "this bypass they wanna do won't work" and "clearly it's not cancer, it's Ebola". Think it through. It makes absolutely no sense. Yet your entire post is based around this premise.

Once you get better and start winning, there's more room for debate. Before that your opinion is not important, if that offends you, CFP is not for you. And I would suggest that you will struggle in other fields in life with this approach as well, this is not unique to poker. Correcting one's behavior based on empirical feedback is very important.


No, man - why would anybody trust you on this?? You have made no money at this game. Again, not putting you down, but where's the common sense man?

I don't go into the pilot's cabin during my flight and say "listen, you have to make a sharp left here, I've played some computer flight simulations with a joystick, you'll just have to trust me on this".

I don't go to the construction site and be like "look, I've played Civilisation on my computer long enough to know that you guys are doing this bridge wrong, this won't work. You need completely different concrete mix, you'll just have to trust me on this."

You have won $150 and are saying this strategy you are taught won't work. But the micro coaches who are teaching it (and using it on their stakes also btw in many cases) play NL50, NL100, NL600 (and some higher).

If their results are not enough or an argument for you to, you need to stop and think for a moment, I don't mean to offend I'm actually trying to help.

The only guy who so far finished 2 programs (2x 60k contract) said - "i couldn't believe this will work, it was so simple. But I did it anyway because that's what the coach said. And it worked".

That's why I'm always linking to our students results, so you know it works, and need to trust and listen, and do. Then judge results. The #1 obstacle of students is their preconceived notions, and bad habits.


You can use the points, that's just factually incorrect and an unfortunate misunderstanding on your part. Yes, we subsidize the rakeback deals with points, and you could have used them, you don't have to finish the program.

The rest is correct, anybody can be break-even and make 1 million dollars just in rakeback, in theory. To that I would say "where do I sign up" and also "where do I sign up my wife, family and neighbors?"


It's not our software, this video platform is fairly standard in the online education industry and used by tens of thousands of companies worldwide I guess. Maybe it's not perfect, I find it good personally and never have issues. I've never heard it not working for people, and frankly you're the only guy who every said that many videos don't work. Maybe it was a browser /connection issue, certainly our support can help you with that.

Is that incorrect, or morally wrong, or what are you trying to say with this? Or is the word penis offending you or what exactly.

It's a metaphor yes, but whiners are generally not seen as the embodiment of manhood in Western (or most other) society, this is not a BPC invention - it's the world we live in.

If I can't make 5 push-ups and somebody says I'm weak because of this fact, well yes I would be weak. It doesn't mean that person is rude and somehow he made me weak or is presenting me as weak. I simply would be weak and need to get stronger. Or be OK with people calling me weak if they see I can't make 5 push-ups.

If you whine a lot, people will think you are a pussy.

And if they are your real friends, they will tell you this to your face. If they don't care about you, they will be quiet and let you keep being a pussy. If they are also pussies, they will tell you that you are right and good, and others who are stronger are evil, corrupt and immoral. This is a fairly known concept in philosophy and psychology, it's called slave morality if you want to google it.

I'm not saying this is you, but I'm pointing out the logic, since you raised this point. Maybe BPC is one of the rare places where you will be told "stop being a pussy and man up, and here are the steps how to do it so you become stronger". If your wife thinks you're a pussy, she will just get another guy behind your back. You can then call the world unfair, but what good will it do?

So here's a guy who works full-time for BPC - not a walk in the park, i can tell you, and we had guys who tried it say they worked in other fields and had executive jobs and BPC demands are crazy high.

On top of that, he just finished the crusher program a few days ago, meaning he made €30,000 on the side playing poker.

He didn't play much. Sometimes he didn't play for months.

He thinks it's actually the personal development and growth in the last 2-3 years of him being on the team that is more valuable to him than the €30,000 he made on the side playing poker. You've made $150 and claim his €30,000 + fulltime job is not a success. Read this a couple of times and let it sink in. Others will see it, but your mind is playing tricks here.

It is a success story and this is not promoted by Gordon, but the person himself who defines his last 2-3 years as huge success comparing to his pre-BPC life.

How many guys on this forum would like to make €30,000 in the next 2-3 years playing poker - WHILE having a full time job they like a lot and feel helped them grow tremendously in the last 2-3 years?

Most guys lose at poker, and most have jobs they hate, and that's real. His story is not one of the 10k per month stories - but it must be in 1% if not higher on the scale of success and poker players.

If you disagree - how do you define success then?

You don't want to be the fat guy on the couch who is arguing that some NBA player sucks because he is not making 20 points per game. Or even 10. You rather wanna be the guy who realizes that even the worst player in the NBA is probably top 0,0000000001% of people in the world at basketball. As well as money earned. But people will routinely ***** and put down guys like this, I've watched enough games with buddies to see this phenomenon many times. Where I come from, we call these guys "couch experts".

So, define success then?

And he is not the only guy coaching the micro players. I don't understand how come you didn't know that, if you could elaborate it would be helpful so we can prevent this in the future?

Alfredo plays NL100-200, Rutger plays NL600, Iron plays NL600, Danel up to NL5k on soft sites.

They all tell you "do this, you will make money like we do". You say "that won't work, I've made $150 at this game and I know what I'm talking about". Again, this is not about putting your $150 down. Its about being real and realizing when your ego is clouding your perception.



Thats again the same argument and 2,3,6,7, answered above.

To summarize.

It seems your biggest complaint is that the beginner strategy you get when you join the Micro program, the Step 1 strategy, is too simple and will not work.

That's a very important point, and one I see with different players, you are not alone in this at all.

People imagine that right from the start you should be doing PIO solvers, or other micro players will just see through you and exploit you, and so on.

We tell them that's fantasy land and micro competitors don't care, know, realize, any of this, not even 0,1%. It's irrelevant and we have proven it with results.

But people don't believe it, and you still don't believe it.

To that I can only say it will work, has worked, and is working.

It's not me saying it, but it's all of the coaches I have listed above, who are coaching Micro students. Leandro plays NL50-100, Alfredo plays NL100-200, Rutger plays NL600, Iron plays NL600, Danel up to NL5k on soft sites.

Alan Jackson who analyses millions of hands regularly as he is a DB analysis fanatic - and yes he is well known for this skill in the poker world, has made official videos for HoldemManager precisely for them recognizing this, to only mention one non-BPC credential - has clearly found that this strategy is best, and tweaked it were it needed improvement. And he regularly does it.

Nobody is trying to put you down, or berate you. You seem to expect it, maybe it's a life-attitude you have, I don't know. If I say there is no debate here because you have made $150 over the years playing poker (or maybe you are overall losing, idk if those 185k are every hand you ever played), and all of those guys made real money, and are doing it daily, and getting better and better...

That's not berating anybody. It's being factually accurate and using common sense.

This used to be well known in the past. Apprentice would come to the master, shut up and listen, and do exactly as told. Then judge results. Poker is simple, but people mess it up. If you're gonna join CFP, do it with awareness that in CFP the coach is the boss and you will mostly be told what to do, and not so much asked what you want. And knowing that this will lead you to $$$.

There is no reason for you or anybody to quit, there is no time-limit on the program. You can keep going at it until you "get" it. If your reason for quitting was - as my conclusion from your post is - that you know better than the coaches, I would invite you to reconsider your position and face the facts.

The #1 obstacle of students is their preconceived notions, and bad habits.

That's why I'm always linking to our students results, so you know it works, and need to trust and listen, and do.

Alright, well... the folks in this thread have seen both of our arguments. I imagine that most people reading this are smart enough to read between the lines.

It's not my goal to come here and argue with you. Why argue with someone who believes the amount of money you make at the micros is a better indicator of knowledge than a reasonable bb/100 over a 185k sample? My goal is to get better at poker. The money, which would be nice, is a byproduct.

I'm just here to give my experience - the people that are tossing around the idea of joining your program can decide for themselves.

Now this is a total coincidence, but I just checked my email after writing the above post, and here's a very relevant email I got from a member:



(it's about the free 6-max course we offer so people can test the quality of our approach to teaching before committing to CFP).

This email is amazing to me, because this is EXACTLY my point in the long post above, but the person here demonstrates his jump from "this won't work" to "I tried it and it worked and now I understand why".

I mean I couldn't put it better, and I can dig up many emails like this, srmjr23.

This is the "aha" moment we work so hard to create for the student, so while it may seem nothing special, in my opinion this is a huge breakthrough in thinking that will (once more advanced strategies are added on top) have far-reaching consequences.

Whether you continue taking shots inside our program or go on your own, this is the breakthrough you will need if you are to go beyond current skill.

GL either way! And thanks again for the feedback I hope your post and my answer helps other guys as well yourself.

Sorry, if you don't mind sparing a few more minutes - what exactly was between the lines?

I appreciate the time you put into the 2 posts, but this implies that I was leaving something out on purpose, or there's a hidden message or something?

I tried to be very detailed and descriptive, if you read something in my post that was between the lines I'd appreciate it if you can take 2 minutes and spell it out for me?

I mean otherwise you're leaving the conversation with a vague negative remark but not specifying what it is, so that it's impossible to address it.

That's your choice, of course, just saying it's not really gonna help us improve or others to make informed decisions.

...or help you in any way.

And it does paint your motives for posting here a bit differently to what they could be. It's not really "I'm here to help others with my experience", it's more "I will try to hurt their business because I'm upset."

I mean you came here with feedback, but I gotta say it seems you're more trying to put everything down in some general sense with the premise that BPC is an "evil" corporation who wants to squeeze you for profits like a juicy lemon, and then discard you to a pile of trash like we're some type of evil Joker from a Batman movie, laughing maniacally as we get filthy rich on microstakes rakeback...

...as opposed to saying "here's the shortcomings, and here's how it can be improved" and so on. You don't have to, of course, but it would actually help YOU get closer to your goals. Especially if our shortcomings are really there - which I'm sure our program is not 100% perfect.

Because I took the time to address all of your points in detail, and you're kindof like "Oh they addressed all of my points? Well I'm still upset, it's between the lines, see you".

That's a misconception which is also shared by quite a few microstakes players.

The money IS the indicator of how good you are. Poker IS played for money.

It's like saying "I want to be really good at shooting, and well hitting the target would be a nice byproduct".

Hitting the target = being good at shooting.
Making money = being good at poker.

With such statements/beliefs you're just trying to hide yourself from the truth that you're not good at poker (yet). It's nothing bad to not be good at poker. But refusing to face up to this reality by saying money doesn't matter as a measure of poker skill, that won't help you overcome skill-deficiency, quite the opposite.

If I'm overweight, and I'm like well it's about eating well, I don't care what the numbers on the scale say.. I'm headed for disaster.

Thank you for sharing your experience with BPC. I am very interested in how you got your deposit back. My story is somewhat different and I think it's worth sharing for those interested in joining BPC. I am an American poker player who has been playing professionally for 7 years.

My reason for joining was because had started playing on Chinese poker apps where games played very deep with antes. Last year the site was soft and beatable however I started feeling like the game had passed me by. I wanted to break through to 600 and 1k NL so I paid my deposit and started. HU NL and PLO are my specialty but BPC support urged me to do the 6m crusher program. I had played 6m up to 100nl but 6m was definitely not my favorite game. Given that BPC is all about taking direction I took supports advice saying that as a US player there would not be a enough sites to play hu and complete the contract in reasonable time. Mind you no US player has completed the contract to date.

About 6 days after I joined BPC my Chinese poker affiliate scammed me for my entire poker bankroll on those clubs. Living in California and supporting family through poker this was a big hit.

I immediately informed my coach who asked why I was still on the newbie steps. I explained that I was on the newbie steps for 2 reasons.

1. Having lost my poker roll I needed to find a stake because I couldn't just start at the micros as I had a mortgage kids and bills to pay.

2. I had just finished the math section of the newbie steps when the next day i logged in and all my progress was erased. I messaged coach and support and was told I had to start over again and watch all the videos again because they changed the coarse. I asked why they changed it and support said that many students didn't know how to update their bankroll or do cashouts.

I started the steps again. It is important to mention that i was going through the steps at a slower than normal rate because I was playing hu on the side staked to pay my bills. Furthermore, I was told that during newbie steps more study than play is required and having not played 6m high volume in a long time i wanted to learn the ranges before i started playing serious volume.

I also wanted to mention that the rakeback deals they have for US players is nill. ACR ignition and bet online are the only options. When i learned this i almost quit right away but my coach explained that you can play anywhere and they have had students play on china apps.

Once I got to the point of learning the ranges for 6m I orinted the ranges off and began memorizing them. At this time I had a whopping $27 in my bovada account so I began at 2NL playing maybe 1 hour per night for 3 nights. I think bovada bankroll was at $42 when I learned I had been terminated from CFP and my account deactivated for inactivity.

Now they had reformed the newbie steps and even in the new version it said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in regard to student account will be deactivated if you don't login for x days. I was under the impression you could go at your own pace playing 80 hours a month min AFTER YOU HAVE COMPLETED THE NEWBIE STEPS..

I learned that I had been terminated after I wrote support an emotional email essentially asking to switch to the HU program. I noticed that more finishers finished with this program and HU was my game. I felt like I was lying to myself trying to play 6m. I was then told my account had been deactivated due to inactivity and I would need to pay another deposit if I wanted to switch.

I responded quite shocked and angry explaining that I was learning the ranges and if I couldn't switch thats fine. BPC new best amd I wanted to finish so if they could reactivate my account I would continue with 6m.

To my surprise support said that I needed to pay ANOTHER 500 EUR to reactivate the original 6m account and that I was terminated because aby student who takes more than 2 months to finish newbie steps is terminated.

I was given no warning that my account would be deactivated nor was I ever told about this 2 month rule in the newbie steps. I AM CERTAIN OF THIS BECAUSE I WENT THROUGH THEM TWICE!!

I then wrote support back telling them a story....

I explained how when I decided to join BPC CFP my poker friends called me naive and gullable. That I must not know basic math since they have 46 successful finishers who they market aggressively. 46 out of the 3000+ students who have applied and paid their 500 EUR deposit. Probability tells us that of that many students to have 50 gifted players join in 5 years time is definitely possible.

I ignored my friends taunts and truly believed in BPC and their formula for success. I told BPC support that the fact that they are putting more value in keeping my 500 EUR deposit and demanding another one just to reactivate my account and continue tells me that the ugly truth is that the 100s of 500 EUR deposits they keep is what pays the bills instead of the 30k EUR they would get if they let me continue. They are essentially saying that they have no faith that i would complete the program and would rather keep 1st deposit and demand a 2nd instead of realize the value of letting me continue to make them 30k EUR.

I could understand having a rule that students must complete newbie steps in 2 months as its plenty of time. HOWEVER that rule and any others should be posted as the 1st video you watch. IN FACT it should be a email that is sent to you as soon as you pay.

However, I immediately informed BPC of my incident that caused me to be delayed. Saying that losing my bankroll with mortgage and family to support is not a good reason to be delayed is the same as being delayed due to a sick family member or any other type of family emergency. Even if BPC failed to notify me of the 2 month rule. Responding to my email informing them of what happened to me would be an optimal opportunity to tell me that I was not special or unique (as they love to say) and they expect me to finish the newbie steps regardless. While this would be harsh AT LEAST it would have given me warning to get moving.

At this point I see that I was misled because I had a friend who did CFP with Bluff the spot and he went from 200nl to 5k nl. I foolishly assumed that it was BPC he did CFP with and started the coarse very excited and motivated.

At this point I have not received a response from BPC as to whether or not I can have my account reactivated. I have asked 2 times already and both times they said no and I would not get my deposit back.

In my emails I told them I didn't want to be another "lazy donk" they discredit on the forums. I asked to continue the program and didn't want my deposit back.

However, at this point learning that my friend did CFP at another site and that 46 finishers out of 3000+ are not good numbers. I do think they know what they are teaching as far as what I learned in the newbie steps but their reluctance to let me continue without paying another deposit tells me they expect most students to fail.

I feel that BPC could definitely improve their coarse by adding a list of things that can lead to termination so there is no confusion. No consumer likes a company who changes rules as they go along. 1st it was because i was in active then it was because ot took over 2 months. Then i was told it was because I began playing 2NL on bovada about 160 hands without paying them or updating my bankroll. The last accusation is true I am guilty of that bit the main reason I didn't update was because I wasn't putting in serious volume yet and wanted to learn the ranges before I jump in 4 tabling for 8 hours a day. I would happily give them half of the$15 I made on bovada.

LASTLY its important to mention that I understood the purpose of the deposit to hold the student accountable so he or she can't tale the coaching and go grind on their own. I received 1 coaching session and it was the orientation session where no strategy was discussed.

I very much hope BPC does the right thing here and either refunds my depositor lets me continue. I think the choice should be mine since they were not clear in the terms of the deposit. I think it is a HUGE leak in their business model to make the official contract come AFTER the newbie steps. IT SHOULD BE THE VERY 1ST THING A STUDENT DOES SO THEY KNOW ALL TERMS OF THE CONTRACT. Making a student gp through newbie steps 2x and then terminate him and keep his deposit before he can even agree to the terms of the contract IS OUTRIGHT THEFT.

Hi donkology, let me first answer you about srmjr23, you are asking about his deposit or if he continued. As you can see in my answer, I invited him to continue, this was the post:

This is factually incorrect.

As you yourself point out, we have ACR, ignition, and Bet Online. So I'm not sure why you say that, and at the same time say there are no deals.

On top of that we have Black Chip, Tiger Gaming.

On top of that we have 7 rooms for which it does not matter which country you are from because we can get access to those rooms to anybody. Those are the softest rooms and there's rakeback for all of them. I won't m,ention them by name, but any CFP student can get those deals and is informed via CFP dashboard about them.

Of course you have to log in to see those offers on your dashboard - if you did not log in for 2 months as you say, you might have missed those deals. But the deals are there.

So thats 10+ rooms for US players.

Of course if you are not from USA, your options are ever more numerous. That's just how it is.