Ryan I've decided that I will not be paying back the funds you "incorrectly" sent me. Here is my evidence that nobody who invested in this 1/27 Complete Sun. pkg should send you a penny back. I will most certainly post a receipt of the donation I'm going to make to prove this isn't about the money.



Pkg. on 1/13 is titled Value Sun.

1/13 rail

1st post mentioning the 44t 15K:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...8&postcount=12

2nd post regarding the same 44t 15K:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...5&postcount=14


Next 2 weeks 1/20 + 1/27 the pkg is titled Complete Sun. and has been changed significantly.

on 1/20 you make it through half the field in the 44t 15K finishing 500 or so out of 1047 but you want us to believe that you simply had too many tbls to mention it. I don't buy it anymore after looking closely at the rails.

Those rail threads contain every single bust hand and mentions every tourney with one exception being the 1/27 rail missing 1-2 out of 5 $27TKO. This means that investors would most definitely NOT have received their portion of say a min cash in 44t 15K on either 1/20 or 1/27 cuz instead you had the full intention of replacing it with the hotter 44. Nice job on shipping the tourney but terrible orginization on your part. I mean looking back at your pkgs not 1 of the last 2 weeks is correct with respect to total $ amount (granted I believe they were errors in investor's favor)


Final link below is about how you will make sure rail is complete and accurate down to the penny.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...91&postcount=4

As promised a dontation to itgetsbetter.org for the full amount $147.31


http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/7...sbetterorg.jpg

There is a caveat clearly stated in the OP that there will be tournaments played outside the package. If you invested in the package expecting action in every tournament he played on Sunday you didn't perform your due dilligence.

This last sunday i took 196th/1177 in the 44$ 15k, so i definitely played it for the package. I also very specifically listed it as being played for as a part of the package in the OP.

I didn't list the hotter 44, and I didn't charge investors for it.

on 1/20/13 i took 555/1047 in the 44 15k, also part of the package. On 1/13 i took 78/1012 and cashed fro 101$. That 101$ was mentioned in the rail, here. I also mentioned it in the payouts here. I also paid investors for it. Proof here.

As I said, I might miss tourney's bust hands. But I didn't miss cashing in them or anything like that. The 44$ 15k was very clearly a part of all of my 3 recent sunday packages, and I counted it as so, and paid out investors as so.

Each sunday I had thought that I had included the hotter 44 in the package, However in non of the packages was it listed, and in none of the packages did I charge people for it.

The week I did cash in the 44 15k, i very clearly mentioned it, posted about it multiple times, and paid out investors for it. As it was a part of the package. (as far as i can tell, i didn't miss a single cash for the package, and paid back accurately to the penny and have done so in my other packages as well, all of them.)

If i had stated in any manner in the OP that the hotter 44 was a part fo the package, and If i had charged investors for it in any manner, I would have snap paid out every penny (like i did in the first place when I thought it was a part of the package).


edit: Also if i was going to replace it with the hotter 44 i would have said so. I've done dozens of packages in the past without issues and understand what is and isn't required of the horse.

I very clearly wasn't trying to angle shoot, and would never try to do so. I did screw up, and it did cost me money, and i am truly sorry for doing so. As many have said the 4k offer was mroe than generous and not required.

2nd edit: The donation offer is generous of you, but the 147 that i sent to you isn't yours to donate. The hotter 44 was very clearly not a part of this package, or my other packages, and the 44$ 15k very clearly was.

So if you are going to make a donation to a charity, make sure they know it is from me.

^ I will be more than happy to email them back and say it's a donation in your name but I guess for tax purposes I just did it with paypal using my own name. I'll send an e-mail responding to the one they sent me confirming the donation.

Wow, I can generally empathize and see some merit in an argument, even if the explanation is flawed or full of logical fallacies but I just don't get your POV, dadonk. It seems everything about this was in investors favor, except being told you won and then having it taken back.

dadonk......obv donating the money is nice but that donation should now be out of your pocket......you still owe him that money and should send it.......what is going wrong in your head that you do not understand this?

Only the case if you believe that investors would've got their share of a cash in the 44t either of the past 2 Sundays. Investors paid for that tourney but it never gets brought up in either Complete Sun. pkg rail. Just about all the bust hands were posted and other tournaments mentioned along with constant updates about what tourneys are left still. Just my opinion and Idc if ppl think I'm wrong.

Read above Idc about what others think of my decision. Other investors can feel free to send back if they wish.

You mean to make sure they know it's from your backers but on your behalf

The fact that you don't care about what others think doesn't mean you aren't doing the wrong thing and being scummy. Obviously no one can force you to send back, people will just have to be careful in their dealings with you in the future.

I can live with that. Thx.

actually the money is coming half from me, as it will be counted out of my chop and not twards my profits on the stake.

so your "donation" is partially coming out of my pocket, and from my backer's.

Edit: Also, if you are donating the money to charity, as long as it isn't a charity that discriminates vs people, I don't mind. Just please post proof of the donation. Thanks.

Definately agree that OP made a honest mistake here, but i also def agree with bbbb about OP being a dick in chatbox a while back on stars.

In post 127 he did post proof and it was to something that appears to be to help youth dealing with being bullied for LGBT issues.

ahh, didn't see it. great organization. Top on my list to donate to, and have in the past.

Lay off the guy. I think he made a mistake in mis-reading the info provided, and dont think he took the money maliciously.

so...whatever.

If you want to invest in me in the future dadonk you are more than welcome to.

Okay, I was being stupid before and didn't get what you were saying.

I still strongly disagree but whatever, prot doesn't seem to care.

Its not really fair to call him scummy for not returning the funds, because even though the compensation offer from protential is kinda bad (he should have just asked for the full amount back); he did make the offer and so you can't fault someone for accepting it. Well, you can def fault them, but calling them scummy for it is a bit out of line.

Especially considering how much dadonk has posted ITT illustrating his thought proccess - it may be consistently failing at logic, but at least it shows that he's really struggling to figure out whats right rather than being scummy and trying to steal money.

Prot - as someone who has never had any issues with you, I have to say you really gotta sort out how you perceive feedback from people, be it positive or negative. You yourself offered the extra $4k compensation (which many people would view as wildly unnecessary given the circumstances) which suggests you did feel there was something to apologise for.

Its pretty ****ed up to accept posters in this thread who agree that the money should be returned and get super offended/aggro when someone voices their opinion that maybe its not so clear cut.

Just thought I'd point that out as you're a decent poker player and seem like an overall decent person, but really seems like you've got some issues to work through in how you think people perceive you (the whole world is not out to get you).

Anyway this is a massive derail and thread should prob be closed once everyone sends back funds.

^^

Just to be clear, and I think I said this earlier, I don't think there is anything wrong with keeping the compensation amount (I just personally would not since it was an honest mistake and mistakes happen). The reason I said what he was doing in that last post was scummy was in response to him sending prot back none of the money for his piece and donating it all to charity. He didn't send back prot some of it and then donate the rest. I think it is nice he donated it to charity but unless I misunderstand what he did then he donated at least some portion of money that was not his to donate.

Oh...that is kind of ****ed up then :/. Thought the donation/argument was over the compensation amount, not the full xferred amount.

Oh yea, accepting the compensation isn't scummy at all, imo.

Well, actually I would be the one making the donation

And whether you donate the money or not, the point here is that you're using wrong reasons to don't repay.

It doesn't matter if I sell a package every Sunday of my life in which I include the Sunday Million; if I win the Sunday Million in a week in which the tournament was not included in my package, you don't have a piece of it whether you invested in my packages for 75 years without missing a single week or not.

The tournaments listed in a package and paid for by the investors are X, if tournament Y was not in the list, you don't have a piece of it.

I'm not gonna start a posting war, just wanted to state the obvious: Not you, nor anybody but Ryan's backer ( me), had a % of the tournament in which Ryan cashed for 14-15K. Me offering a compensation was due only because I wanted to avoid any drama and show good will, nothing else.

Don't bother to respond me expecting a reply from me because this is all I have to say about the matter.