As long as both parties agree to the deal not sure why it would be unethical...

I would feel a little dirty asking unless I offered to buy it back at higher markup

I'm not doubting your intentions or whatever but the one thing you seem to be missing is all of the extra packages devalues the FIRST package. All you've described is how the people in the later packages were ok with everything. This may be something you've overlooked but I'm pretty sure it's bothers some investors.

No harm in asking. I would be furious as an investor if you just bought back without asking permission first as i am buying a piece of you based on the overall value of the package. For example, if you sell a package at 1.2 of mostly 1k-1500 wsop tournaments and one 5k, and you score big in a 5k then buy the rest of your action back, you are screwing over your investors as they likely would not have bought action to 5k alone at 1.2.

This would be downright theft to do it without permission first, and I would expect the buyout price would have to be higher markup than was initially bought. But it's pretty clear both sides would have to agree. If I buy something from a store they can't hunt me down and force me to sell it back to them.

Also another question people have pointed out it's wrong but say someone sells shares to say a bunch of 1.5k's that are supposed to be soft then a few tough 10k's in the same package. Then they miss a few of the 1.5k's. I know that's wrong but what should be the outcome of that? Does it change whether it's an obvious excuse (was tired didn't feel like playing) or legit (I just discovered I have cancer)? I guess legit people would be more likely to not make a huge fuss but say someone just decides they're too tired or posts that they got drunk or something else that clearly should have been avoided but causes them to miss the soft events. Obviously their rep gets ruined for the future but is there currently anything investors can do? Obviously they should ask for their money back if the 1.5k's were the first ones but say they've already played a 10k they can't just back out that lets them freeroll the 10k. I mean it seems most people don't do this and to most people their rep is worth way more than the ev gained of charging more MU to play in high buy-in events but just wondering what the punishment would be for doing that.

Sorry if this has already been discussed, or if there's a really easy answer that I'm just too stupid to see. But what happens with markup when someone makes a day two so has to miss a tournament in their package? Seems like they just pocket markup for a tournament they didn't play. Again, sorry if I'm just coming off incredibly stupid and there's a simple explanation for this.

they refund the buyin+the markup...

That makes way too much sense for me to even consider it.

someone has a clue or chart which ROIs are possible in the common events. lets say WSOP ME, 12$ 180, 24$ 90 KO, sunday million, random SCOOP/FTOPs events ect.

-100% is possible in all of them

I haven't really used the marketplace much (although I almost definitely will in the future), but I put together a similar package to the ones that get generated here, so I guess I just had a couple questions. I read most of the thread but not all, so I apologize if this any of this has been covered:

Would you feel similarly about a horse whose package you bought who then sought out one-time deals during the same timeframe?

To use my example, I didn't include today's $5K shootout in my package, but at some point after busting yesterday's $1500, I had a hankering to play the $5K. I guess my question is, do investors/buyers here consider selling 1-timers in the midst of a package deal to be unethical or unlikable? I decided that it's basically not fair to my investors (in addition to being a hassle) basically because I have a $1500 tomorrow that IS part of the package schedule. I guess the critical mass of marketplace investors would agree with that?

On the flipside, I do think in theory there should be some way for me to take one-time deals that is still reasonable and fair to my original backers, and I guess the only simple way to do that is include it as a stipulation in the deal up front--that I reserve the right to take 1-time deals not included in the original package. Would that change the rate investors are willing to pay drastically?

***

Unrelated stuff I guess I'd like to mention in the email agreements I write in any potential future packages I sell:

1) Tipping policy (one of my investors specifically said I shouldn't tip, and I realized I should have asked everyone ahead of time)

2) Updates - just some mention of how and when I'll be doing updates (I prefer not to tweet regular chip counts) while agreeing to any special requests (like text/email updates every break)

3) Taxes - I'm just not sure what the best way to approach and phrase this is. My basic thinking is that I will need investors to sign for taxes once cashes hit a certain point, but I don't know if it's necessary to spell out what amount that is. I think it should go without saying that everyone is responsible for paying his own taxes based on the laws of his country, but if I cash for 50K total on a 40K package, I just don't care that much about getting 7 tax forms signed. However, if I cash for 140K, I'm going to need people's info for the taxman. Just curious how buyers and sellers think this should be codified or how often it gets codified.

Shane,

Full disclosure up front is the way to go, and investors value that incredibly. If you post in your package that you reserve the right to take 1x deals for events not included then there isn't a problem. As far as that hurting what rate you can charge, that is something investors would have to consider. I don't see it crippling the value of a package or anything, but with the WSOP it would really suck as an investor to miss a bunch of high value MTT's in a package because your horse is playing other things for other people. One thing to consider is buyers might actually want that action, so it might be better of including those events in the package and lowering your markup for the entire package accordingly.

This all sounds like good advice, it just gets into a lot of gray areas in terms of the number of spontaneous, 1-time opportunities that might come up during the WSOP. Like I might spontaneously want to play the 1500 2-7 NL, but adding that to my package at the beginning would be a little "absurd" and lower the value of the package.

Also, as a default I am trying to put together the most attractive offer to investors at the top, which will also be what I consider the overall highest EV set of events for myself, so it's really just about accounting for the possibility of wanting to play the occasional lower-EV 1-timers for fun and gauging that vs. investors' overall confidence/interest in the horse based on that possibility. I'm not sure if there would be a way to add in a clause where investors could opt-in or opt-out of extraneous events, seems like it would be super complicated, but so do a lot of aspects of this business!

I would appreciate if anyone had any advice with respect to canadians being backed by americans and if/how they can fully recover the 30% withholding tax. There's a lot of misinformation being spread, and I've had to put off playing until I can get everything sorted out for sure.

I wrote quite a bit about it in the thread for my package. link= http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/16...ackage-784872/

If anyone thinks it's relevant, feel free to paste it in here or maybe make a sticky with all relevant information. There are a lot of people here who bought pieces of canadian players, and it seems likely that both sides are unclear as to how the actual process works. Either that, or I'm missing something ... and hopefully someone can explain it to me.

prolly the best thing to do would be to go to a tax professional.

ya if anyone has more experience with this, Id like to hear as well, heard conflicting sides of information in various threads so far as well, not sure what is the truth, and I think taxes are almost "sticky" worth as it completely changes the value of a stake, depending on how much/if any you lose to taxes.

Why was I told by several players that they received between 21 to 27% of the 30% taxed when they did business with RMS? I'm going to look deeply into this. If anyone reading this did business with RMS, please mention what happened with the %. Thanks.

My understanding as to why these companies are able to recoup so much is because they choose to look the other way when you misreport or invent losses, and in a lot of cases they help you fabricate them.

And then they cover their own asses by having you sign a liability waver.


It looks like form 5754 is going to be the key to fixing the situation.

I've done some more research and have spent the past 2 days speaking to the IRS, and it appears as though the Rio is legally obligated to accept and accomodate you in filing these and splitting up the winnings. The agent I spoke to says that their refusal to do it is illegal. I was advised to get legal counsel if it becomes a conflict, and that the form that you would need to fill out is this: http://www.lottoreport.com/IRSForm3949a.pdf

I spoke to andy rich who is the director of poker operations for the wsop, and while he seemed sympathetic, he isnt in a position to make any changes. He forwarded me to a senior VP responsible for finance/accounting related stuff. I'm going to be speaking to him later today about this and see whether it will be possible to have them change their policy. I'll post as soon as I know more.

So my american backer would need to fill that form and whenever I cash in a event, i show up with this at the Rio Cage and they're going to give the % to my american backer without being taxed (on his %)? And from what I understood, Harrahs dont want to do it and they are not allowed to refuse lol? That sounds like a lot of troubles.

Keep me updated please.

Pretty tilting to see things like $2 sweat threads get bumped literally every 2 minutes and people trying to sell 10k+ packages get pushed to page 5 in a day.

Maybe they could split them into like small, mid and high stakes, similar to the strategy and other subforums.

There is a discussion in this thread about that issue though:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/16...edited-786854/

interesting to see people bought action in billyb... terryfan, having sold 88% of his action at 1.2:1 giving him a 5.6% money return and 12% freeroll on winnings. thoughts on this?

The *only* difference between this and somebody who sells 88% at no markup is that the latter has less money in his pocket. There's nothing mathematically significant about getting guaranteed return. If you think a stakee is worth the price (markup) he's asking, and he's keeping enough of himself that you think he'll play to win, then it's a good buy.

it helps we have the assurance of several valued posters that billyb is 100% not the type to spew off/dick around with investor's money. without that, i think it'd be silly for people to buy %s of others when they make a guaranteed profit. billyb/hiv are exceptions because of how established they are in the community imo

Becoming much less "acceptable" without any updates in his blog or his thread when he was supposed to play the 2-7 Triple Draw yesterday. Nothing is more tilting to a buyer than not having any clue if your person played or if they busted or whatever. I will absolutely not buy a piece of anyone in the future if they don't post how they will be updating people and if someone sells a package and does a horrible job of updating then I think it should be perfectly fine to post in any future packages about his lack of updates.