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Old 08-15-2013, 11:59 PM   #1276
iamhussler
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Hi new here and just have a question. I a thinking about buying some shares that people are advertising. How do they know who to send money back to people if they collect? Should I place my ps or full tilt name for them or how does it work? Hope someone can answer this for me thanks.
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Old 08-16-2013, 06:35 AM   #1277
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamhussler View Post
Hi new here and just have a question. I a thinking about buying some shares that people are advertising. How do they know who to send money back to people if they collect? Should I place my ps or full tilt name for them or how does it work? Hope someone can answer this for me thanks.
Yes write the account (maybe site too) u sent from. If u don't want to make it public pm it to them (well u can't now since ur new), or just write something like this:

for example your PS Name is ''iamhussler'' aswell, just write: ia******er

although it's quite obv it was you who sent when u have the same screename as on here.
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:58 PM   #1278
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

selling a piece ......




Last edited by Rainbow Warrior; 08-18-2013 at 04:39 PM. Reason: bap attempt
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:02 PM   #1279
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

you are still doin it wrong, u didn't even realise that your other post is already deleted

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...hreads-803715/
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Old 08-19-2013, 11:46 PM   #1280
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I've been skimming through this and can't find the answer so sorry if this has already been covered. I'm thinking about selling a piece of myself for some Maximus events in a couple weeks. I can receive $ through p2p transfers on several various US sites. The concern I have is with paying people out quickly enough if I have a big enough score since I won't have enough money liquid in my bank account if say, for example, I need to pay out 15k. I can get my money off very quickly (a few days) for a flat 5% vig through my affiliate or I can do p2p transfers. The p2p transfers could take a while since I have a 1k weekly transfer limit on the sites so the quick withdraw and then pay out from there seems like it would be the best option. Is it fair to give them the options (and obviously state it before hand) that they can receive any winnings through a bank transfer for a 5% vig or receive it all through a p2p transfer but might have to get it in increments depending on how much I need to pay out?
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Old 08-20-2013, 12:33 AM   #1281
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Just state those concerns in your staking post and see if people are OK with them.
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Old 08-24-2013, 04:11 AM   #1282
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I am assuming this is bad etiquette as I don't see it happen here. But if I see a package I like, and I am in first in or a great majority of it is remaining, can I offer to buy all of what is remaining at a slightly reduced mu? Is there any room for negotiation or is that deemed offensive?
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Old 08-24-2013, 09:04 PM   #1283
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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I am assuming this is bad etiquette as I don't see it happen here. But if I see a package I like, and I am in first in or a great majority of it is remaining, can I offer to buy all of what is remaining at a slightly reduced mu? Is there any room for negotiation or is that deemed offensive?
So its no big deal if I start pointing out excessive markups on some of these guys?
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Old 08-24-2013, 09:35 PM   #1284
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Originally Posted by PlayaHata1 View Post
So its no big deal if I start pointing out excessive markups on some of these guys?
Obsessing over markups you deem excessive is not productive. Making an offer to buy all of what is remaining at a slightly reduced mu is.

If you actually want to buy at a slightly reduced markup, just PM the seller with an offer. I doubt anybody will be offended.
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Old 08-26-2013, 03:48 PM   #1285
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Somebody brought this up in the MU thread, and it seems like a pretty good idea.

A sub-forum for series packages SCOOPS/WCOOPS/FTOPS rather than clogging the day to day market place.

Thanks
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:30 AM   #1286
bevers
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Hi,

I would like to ask why I'm not able to create a new thread to get staked for some online poker. Apparently I don't have access to that part of the forum but I fail to understand why. Anyone who has some experience with this?

Regards, Matt
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:45 AM   #1287
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

^ new day, different person, same question:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...hreads-803715/
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Old 08-31-2013, 10:03 AM   #1288
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Lol, I'm not going to read everything what's on here.
Thx for the link though.
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Old 09-09-2013, 05:48 AM   #1289
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Have to say its getting ridiculous the number of people selling shares in the Market Place who are quiet happy to take investors $, but find it difficult to spend 5-10mins at the end of a session to provide an update with how the pack went.

Don't know about anybody else but i think its taking the piss and investors have every right to be updated on how their investment went.
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Old 09-09-2013, 01:24 PM   #1290
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Make a stink about it in their thread and maybe they will be less likely to sell and/or disrespect your money in the future.
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Old 09-17-2013, 02:08 AM   #1291
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I got a question about staking those who post the staking shares online for tournaments. I know many people stake others for cash games and sngs but to me, thats not really good idea because your money will be with them for a long time until the end of the agreement.


It seems that backiing individual players in the 2p2 selling shares-online marketplace is the most simple? I see tons of players everyday selling shares of some big buy in tournament or a whole slate of sunday tournaments and they sell 1 percent, 5 percent, 10 percent and charge a markup.


1. I know this might sound like a square strategy but wouldn't anyone that is a very good player with lot of great results, wouldn't backing these players in whatever tournament package they are selling almost always a good idea? I know the markup they charge are going to be higher than other players but if these guys are the ones that are making final tables, isn't it worth it to buy as much share of them as possible?


2. I know there are ppl that stake for a living but i'm pretty sure most of these guys that do it usually stake cash and sng players. But are there ppl here that only stake tournament players? Which staking would you say is better for the one staking the other?


3. Are there ppl that stake players for a living but only stake those players who post in the selling shares online tournament marketplace? Im thinking if you look at whose posting, then just buy at a good amount of what they are selling, for example say they are selling 60 percent of $2500 in total buyins, if you get 10 percent, but is that enough? Such as if they get 30k in a tournament, you would get 3k or whatever the amount is around that which is pretty nice.


4. Same similar question. Wouldn't it be good idea to buy 10-20 percent of all the really good players who post in the marketplace for selling shares online? I know there are players who packages get sold out quickly and then theres ton of players who dont even get a reply or get 1 or 2 buyers only.


5. Why do people buy 1 percent or 2 percent? I always see ppl say 1 percent or 2 percent for the sweat. I dont know why but to me, buying 1 or 2 percent is so little that isn't it not really worth it? In a way, it feels like betting sports in a parlay where you are just betting 100 dollars to win 3000 or so. Or am i wrong here?


6. Can someone give examples of the biggest scores in the selling shares online marketplace? Has anyone bought 1 percent and say that 1 percent was something ridiculous like $10 or so and then the other guy won a huge amount and then the guy got back a huge amount? Even so, i can't imagine someone buying $10 or 1 percent would ever get more than $1500 at the absolute max right? Seems like it won't return more than a few hundred? Has anyone bought a share of say just $100 and then got back $5000+ as a return? Has there been people who buy $500 or $1000 in shares and then the other guy got a top prize? If so, how much would the investor of $500 or $1000 get? I imagine it would be easily 25k to 50k?
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:46 PM   #1292
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I'm a rookie in this business but let me express my first impression.

First, a staker must have solid bankroll management too. Those with bankrolls in the low 4 figures can't afford to buy 2-digit percentages in the majors, especially because most of the ROI is eaten by the markup.

Imho buying shares is for those stakers who yet lack a roll or don't wish to work on it full-time, or for big seasonal series like COOPs, FTOPS and Poker Maximus when fields are softer than usual and thus staking volume increases. It's the simplest, but simple jobs yield low income, don't they?

The problem is that players who sell shares usually don't want deep and longterm relationships with investors, giving them only OPR or Sharkscope stats, which might lie about their ability, especially if the sample size is small, and it often is because MTT stats converge slowly; and surely players hide their shortcomings well. It's hard to weed out regfishes who have accidentally hit some big final tables and think they have a lifetime license for selling action.

That also influences investors' BRM. Compare them to players who select tables and who don't. Those who sit at just random (or Zoom) tables should have a stricter BRM as their winrates will be lower. Those who neither 'bumhunt' in the Marketplace nor review horses' applications thoroughly but instead buy everything should have a stricter BRM too.

There are both overpriced players who sell packages quickly because they have an army of loyal, often irrational, investors (friends) and those who are yet unnoticed but of good value (mainly due to the small sample size) and deserve investing double-digit %-ages. It's hard to find the latter (without digging into their thought processes and grinding routines). I think I can't do this well.

The value of a player is determined by both the markup and the estimated ROI (Bayesian inference is needed here). A consistently cashing player with 35% estimated ROI selling at 1.1 is undoubtedly better than one with 45% ROI derived from a single final table, selling at 1.25 and stuffing packages with side games where he's a fish or has a lol sample size.

Those who hand out longterm MTT stakes supervise players much closer, know a lot about their thought processes, mental game, even real life events, so they can assess the players' ROI preciser and also hire the right coaches and plug the most important leaks for mutual benefit.

As for big scores, look for them in WCOOP event packages, of course tons of regs there are staked (because the events are softer than usual and the regs feel like taking a shot). For example, a 2+2'er MauriceSch, who has just won the $10300 WCOOP-23 for $533.2K, said he had sold 80% of his action (not in the MP), so if someone had bought 5% of it (worth ~$500), this share has returned >$25K.
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Old 09-21-2013, 09:43 PM   #1293
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

The reason people buy small shares is because of bankroll management. Usually ROIs are very small because of markup which means you need a lot of buyins.

There are thousands of people playing $10 tournaments who think it's worth it and buying a $10 share of someone takes a lot less work so of course it is worth it.
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Old 09-27-2013, 04:12 AM   #1294
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I have a couple of questions for people of the marketplace.

I currently back 25 players and the same as an individual players want to offset their variance by either trading or selling pieces so do stables. The hots, bigs and majors which while they are juicey get huge fields so they are the ideal candidates to reduce variance for the backer while investors still get good value.

So how does the market place feel about BAPs from backers selling of small pieces of their horses? It wouldn't change anything from the investors or the horses point of view.

The investor would also get some benefits, 1. we'd be selling less available percentages than most other packages (we'd only sell a max of 25% of a stakee) as we'd want to retain a lot ourselves so that shows confidence 2. the package would be over multiple winning horses rather than a single horse which means the investor gets more tournaments in the package so less variance thus shorter long run 3. the investor has reassurance that the horse was selected by a backer.
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Old 09-27-2013, 04:51 AM   #1295
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I think your biggest hurdle will be presenting it in an easy to understand format. Many buyers won't touch sales that they don't understand, and often times will make a purchasing decision quickly. Figure out how to display your action in a way someone can understand in sub 30 seconds and you may have some success.
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Old 09-28-2013, 03:39 PM   #1296
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Originally Posted by Jay. View Post
~
So how does the market place feel about BAPs from backers selling of small pieces of their horses? It wouldn't change anything from the investors or the horses point of view.
~
Sounds like you are looking for an investor.

Selling pieces of others wouldn't be allowed here.
Moderators get little enough sleep as it is.

All BAPs posted and sold must be for your own play.
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Old 09-28-2013, 03:49 PM   #1297
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Sounds like you are looking for an investor.

Selling pieces of others wouldn't be allowed here.
Moderators get little enough sleep as it is.

All BAPs posted and sold must be for your own play.
PMed. I think this will be more common in the future for more stable owners to want to do this because of the high variance in the high fields. This is a year of Sunday Millions for a stable of 10 players:



Which while 20% ROI still has a 55% chance of losing money over the entire year.

The stables would prefer to to lose some EV (by giving a lower mark up than ROI) to massively offset the variance just on these high field tournaments rather than seeking an investor.

I understand it's a logistical nightmare for the mods here at first. PMed you about that.

Last edited by Jay.; 09-28-2013 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 09-28-2013, 04:02 PM   #1298
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

RW is right. From investors' viewpoint, it's preferable that each of your horses post their own pack separately, quoting you as a reference. The thing is, theoretically, investors are interested in buying more % of your best horses and fewer % of your worst ones, while your interest is quite the opposite. By bundling good and bad horses up, you make investors pay for your ugly ducklings, which is unfair imho.

It's terrible for you if some of your horses lack MP approval, but you should have taken care of that beforehand.
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Old 09-28-2013, 04:37 PM   #1299
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

What type of bad horses are you staking that only have a 20% ROI in the Sunday Million? lol. Back players who are good at poker and they don't go on as bad of swings. I know this was just an example, but you should know as a backer that low ROI horses end up buried in makeup at some point.
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Old 09-28-2013, 06:22 PM   #1300
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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What type of bad horses are you staking that only have a 20% ROI in the Sunday Million? lol. Back players who are good at poker and they don't go on as bad of swings.
It was just an illustration.

ROI doesn't help much in large field tournaments to avoid variance. Here is 60% ROI



Still a 30% chance of losing money for 10 players after a year of (520) Sunday Millions.

Last edited by Jay.; 09-28-2013 at 06:28 PM.
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