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Old 02-12-2013, 02:29 PM   #1201
Bustoattack
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

wrong section

Last edited by orange; 02-12-2013 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:56 AM   #1202
abhi147
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaimestaples View Post
I don't have that data except on really small scales. Someone could collect it but it would be a ton of work and tough to automate. I feel like there is not going to be a huge differences between that, and really digging into sharkscope or opr and getting some stats there that are sometimes missed.
he doesnt mean sharkscope stats

he means stats on how many stakes player has put out and what were the returns his avg MU and things like that

Its a good idea but a pain in the ass to get all data and no realy way of automating it unless players themselves put the data in there

But this could be really good for investors
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:12 PM   #1203
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

My opinion on what to look out for when buying

-Dont pay attention to fancy graphs, focus on the longterm roi of a player, as if the mu is higher than the roi then its usually gonna be a losing investment longterm unless the player is making great improvements to his game

-Try to buy shares that include smaller field tournaments in the package.Its so hard for any player to get a deep run in a major, so the variance is huge if the package is majors only

-Dont pay over the odds on mu just because the seller had a great day the previous sunday.Still remember his longterm roi and consider if mu is fair still.

-Look out for the eurosite packages.Rois will always be alot higher at eurosites as fields are far weaker and smaller.I gauge a winning pokerstars players roi increases 15-20% when they are playing eurosite

-Stakeback packages are not mu free and probably the worst value on the internet.The cut that the seller gets to keep is the mu being charged, so as its usually broke/losing players who sell at stakeback, your paying mu for a player who has a negative roi
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:57 PM   #1204
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Yeah totally agree with the bridler.

I also very rarely invest in big packages, I think its so hard too show a return, for example, a package with 25 mtts totalling 6k with MU, the horse has to run really deep in two or maybe even three of these just for the investor to breakeven.

I actually see alot of packages being baught into that are, IMO a really bad investment, but chose not to say anything because I dont have the reputation here to do so.
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:30 PM   #1205
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Originally Posted by abhi147 View Post
he doesnt mean sharkscope stats

he means stats on how many stakes player has put out and what were the returns his avg MU and things like that

Its a good idea but a pain in the ass to get all data and no realy way of automating it unless players themselves put the data in there

But this could be really good for investors
I don't see why the statistics should be different between when a player is selling and not selling? I think looking at the historical results is much more valuable. Also it would take years before relevant samples were attained as most people sell to massive field tournaments on sunday.
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:14 AM   #1206
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Originally Posted by WhyDid I doThat :| View Post
Yeah totally agree with the bridler.

I also very rarely invest in big packages, I think its so hard too show a return, for example, a package with 25 mtts totalling 6k with MU, the horse has to run really deep in two or maybe even three of these just for the investor to breakeven.

I actually see alot of packages being baught into that are, IMO a really bad investment, but chose not to say anything because I dont have the reputation here to do so.
I am writing to inform you of how bad your logic is.

If you buy 25 individual tournament packages all selling $215s @ some XX markup, or if you buy one package with 25 $215 tournaments @ some XX markup, you're expectation is the exact same (assuming the same tournaments). Buying more, smaller, packages actually decreases your EV somewhat because it requires more time spent on your end to buy the packages.

Don't judge an offering by how many birds are being played. Judge it based on the price and the quality.

It's unfortunate that you never chose to say anything ealier because your false viewpoint could have been corrected a long time ago.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:40 PM   #1207
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Didnt really explain what I meant very well, I do think MU should be lowered in bigger packages.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:48 PM   #1208
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Originally Posted by WhyDid I doThat :| View Post
Didnt really explain what I meant very well, I do think MU should be lowered in bigger packages.
*I would rather pay high MU for the chance of a big bink rather than doubling my money.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:08 AM   #1209
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyDid I doThat :| View Post
*I would rather pay high MU for the chance of a big bink rather than doubling my money.
ever considered lottery tickets?=)

example:

Player A got 50% ROI and sells a package of 10*100$ tournaments=1000$ at 1,1 MU.
cost for investor: 1,1*1000$= 1100$
expected return: 1500$
expected ROI% for investor: 1500/1100=1,3636= 36,36%

Player B got 50% ROI and sells 10 packages for 1*100$ tournament each at 1,2 MU.
if you invest in every singe package you got:
cost for investor: 1,2*1000$=1200$
expected return: 1500$
expected ROI% for investor: 1500/1200=1,25=25%



...and you would rather buy from player B than from player A? or prefer to buy only one tournament from player B for 120$ than buy 10% from player A for 110$? not only you would have to pay MORE for player B but also have way bigger swings compared to player A.

if player A and B would sell for the same MU and you prefer to either go big or bust then go ahead, thats ok in the long run. but paying more for increased variance seems like a bad idea to me
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Old 02-15-2013, 02:40 PM   #1210
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I'm not saying big packages are a worse investment, I admitted not explaining what I mean properly.

Off to buy a lottery ticket now
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:32 PM   #1211
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

would selling 80% of yourself in the wednesday $320 at no mu be okay or would that be frowned upon?
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:02 AM   #1212
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

it depends
what is ur usual max buyin that you play?
You will mostly not be frowned upon as its no MU

but how much you will be able to sell depends on your stats and your ABI
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:08 AM   #1213
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhi147 View Post
it depends
what is ur usual max buyin that you play?
You will mostly not be frowned upon as its no MU

but how much you will be able to sell depends on your stats and your ABI
Usual max would be $215 on sundays, have played the $320 once before with no luck. Highest buy every was a $700 wcoop satty.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:27 AM   #1214
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

then u can probably sell with no MU for sure
just mention that you have played these high BI MTTs before
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Old 02-21-2013, 08:34 AM   #1215
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhyDid I doThat :| View Post
Yeah +1
Quote:
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Hu4rllz, i notice you buy action very liberally here. I would like to know what are your results like and what goes into deciding who you buy from?
not a good idea to buy action liberally .... buy action from those who have lower MU's with a decent roi .... also the person need to be trustworthy or a regular with no -ve rep ...

last 2 sunday bought action around 7K at average MU of 20% i guess .... ended up -1.6k .... MU kills
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:57 AM   #1216
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by hu4rllz View Post
not a good idea to buy action liberally .... buy action from those who have lower MU's with a decent roi .... also the person need to be trustworthy or a regular with no -ve rep ...

last 2 sunday bought action around 7K at average MU of 20% i guess .... ended up -1.6k .... MU kills
+1

Most people charging MU of 1.25 have roi of 36-40% and if you watch closely
its usually 1 good ship and rest is pretty normal
This makes it a loss in the long run
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Old 02-21-2013, 04:59 PM   #1217
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Originally Posted by abhi147 View Post
+1

Most people charging MU of 1.25 have roi of 36-40% and if you watch closely
its usually 1 good ship and rest is pretty normal
This makes it a loss in the long run
agreed
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Old 03-20-2013, 04:01 PM   #1218
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Accidently posted this in the "being staked..." thread

Whats the best/cheapest way to get money from the US of A to Europe?
(PayPal blows, takes a fee on both ends.)
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Old 03-20-2013, 05:33 PM   #1219
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Best? Wire. Cheapest way, assuming you are entering the USA, is by taking it with you on the plane on your person.
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Old 03-20-2013, 05:36 PM   #1220
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Is it theoretically ok for someone who has a v. bad ROI, say worse than -25% to sell shares to mtt packages as long as they are selling at no markup?

It's up to the buyers I guess but I always thought it was morally wrong trying to sell action when you have a bad roi lol. Not asking on behalf of myself, just wondering.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:04 PM   #1221
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

^^ I currently have about -10% ROI in "Other"-games because of only one small cash in 7 or 8 tournaments of 200-300$. I beat the games at my 10$ average buy-in for a decent ROI, though.

Just do a lil research of the player's history (bigger buy-ins and ROI in lower games), and maybe you actually get a very good deal, despite (or also because of) his a negative ROI.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:06 PM   #1222
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

If I did have a -ROI (probably will in the future the way Im ****ing running lol) I think I could post my HEM stats too to show I'm competent. Someone could run appallingly bad and have a bad ROI but still have very nice vp/pfr/3bet/river call efficiency/w$sd etcetc.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:06 PM   #1223
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoGGz View Post
Best? Wire. Cheapest way, assuming you are entering the USA, is by taking it with you on the plane on your person.
I meant for selling shares online, since FT/PS transfer is obv not an option.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:22 PM   #1224
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Send the money on the site you are buying/selling shares on?

Wire would be the second best option.

Send a paper check is the third best option that comes to mind.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:28 PM   #1225
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

^^ Only play on PS/FT...
But I could set up an account on one or two sites where most us based players have a few bucks on. I'll consider that, maybe even find a few good games there.
Thank you, been to lazy to use my brain, I think.
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