Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > > >

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-13-2011, 03:11 PM   #976
TheJunkie
adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,077
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Hi.

I'm familiar with the Marketplace way for listing shares with MU, but whenever I look at PTP or read Marketplace sells from people that write them up using PTP terms, I feel completely lost. For example, "The backer will get 75% cut no makeup."

Can someone please explain the differences between the two sites terminology? Or translate common PTP terms into Marketplace terms. I'd like to be able to read PTP termed sells and mentally convert them into the more familiar Marketplace style.

Thanks.
TheJunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 03:27 PM   #977
DoGGz
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DoGGz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: in the streets, in the lab
Posts: 17,315
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJunkie View Post
Hi.

I'm familiar with the Marketplace way for listing shares with MU, but whenever I look at PTP or read Marketplace sells from people that write them up using PTP terms, I feel completely lost. For example, "The backer will get 75% cut no makeup."

Can someone please explain the differences between the two sites terminology? Or translate common PTP terms into Marketplace terms. I'd like to be able to read PTP termed sells and mentally convert them into the more familiar Marketplace style.

Thanks.
I have a post in this thread doing exactly that. Search for posts by me in this thread and you should find it. Busy playing and might dig it up later.
DoGGz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 06:43 PM   #978
TheJunkie
adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,077
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoGGz View Post
I have a post in this thread doing exactly that. Search for posts by me in this thread and you should find it. Busy playing and might dig it up later.
Apparently my search skills suck. I stumbled across bits and pieces of info but not anything clearly written out. Please paste it whenever you have time. Thanks.

In one discussion, I saw amir post "- a 75/25 split is equal to 1.33 markup which is relatively on the high side, and is unlikely to sell (much more so if you attempt to sell 75% of your action)." ...but I have no idea how he calculated this 33%MU. Or how to understand deals like "Each share is $25.50 or .01% of the total buyin ($25,500). So for every ten shares you buy ($255), you will receive the backers cut of 1% of the total cash. The backer will get 75% cut no makeup." How does "with makeup" change the terms?

It would be nice to have a separate sticky for this topic.
TheJunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 07:59 PM   #979
ak7062
adept
 
ak7062's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 925
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJunkie View Post
In one discussion, I saw amir post "- a 75/25 split is equal to 1.33 markup which is relatively on the high side, and is unlikely to sell (much more so if you attempt to sell 75% of your action)." ...but I have no idea how he calculated this 33%MU.
This is incorrect. Assuming stakeback (initial stake returned to investors before splitting profits), a 75/25 split has a markup of up to 1.25 (< 1.25, to be exact). I made a detailed post about this here, and to the best of my understanding, that is how it breaks down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJunkie View Post
Or how to understand deals like "Each share is $25.50 or .01% of the total buyin ($25,500). So for every ten shares you buy ($255), you will receive the backers cut of 1% of the total cash. The backer will get 75% cut no makeup." How does "with makeup" change the terms?
Makeup is more common in BAPs on PTP, probably because they are longer term. Most BAPs here don't include makeup. If makeup is offered, this generally justifies a higher profit cut for the horse, as there is less variance for the investor (his losses will be made up over time). This is why long-term staking deals have 50-50 cuts with makeup, or similar.
ak7062 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2011, 09:29 PM   #980
TheJunkie
adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,077
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Thanks ak. Does stakeback = makeup ?

More questions regarding this scenario: "Each share is $25.50 or .01% of the total buyin ($25,500). So for every ten shares you buy ($255), you will receive the backers cut of 1% of the total cash. The backer will get 75% cut no makeup."
So for this example, if the horse cashed for $100k and I bought 1%, would I receive $750 ? And in Marketplace terms, would this deal be 25% MU? (25k/100k) Lastly, the package is broken up into 1000 shares. The horse has 400. His shares are 100% cut and the backers have a 75% cut. Continuing with the 100k score, I believe that this means the backers shares will be worth $75 each. If true, does this mean the horses shares are with $100 each? If so, seems like the numbers are off. The horse would be getting $40k where I expect them to get $25k. Understand?
TheJunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2011, 11:15 AM   #981
luckyfool
centurion
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 134
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

hey, looking for some pointers, maybe some of the veteran folks here can help, that would be much appreciated.

never really used marketplace and have absolutely no experience in staking/backing/etc and not familir with the lingo too much.

I come here for advice on a deal I want to do. I have asked a friend of mine if he would do some coaching and he suggested to instead of paying a fixed sum/h, he offered me to become his protege which I find a much better deal.

Now I am really interested in making this worth his while as he is full time poker pro so any time he spents on me initially would have less EV than if he were to play himself.. I have no track record as I am making the transition to PLO exclusively.

The deal variables I need some advice on are coaching effort on his side in relation to his share/month and the length of the deal to see if it works out. I assume though that things won't be written in stone so can be slightly adjusted later, but I'm looking for a basic way to structure this deal.

There is no staking involved initially as I have a regular income.

Thanks in advance for your advice.
luckyfool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2011, 02:07 PM   #982
ak7062
adept
 
ak7062's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 925
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJunkie View Post
Thanks ak. Does stakeback = makeup ?
IIRC, no. Stakeback is the value of the initial buyins, which will be paid back to investors prior to any cut for the horse. Makeup is the amount a horse has lost in a stake, which will be paid back to investors prior to any cut for the horse (in an agreement where makeup is stipulated).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJunkie View Post
"Each share is $25.50 or 0.1% of the total buyin ($25,500). So for every ten shares you buy ($255), you will receive the backers cut of 1% of the total cash. The backer will get 75% cut no makeup." So for this example, if the horse cashed for $100k and I bought 1%, would I receive $750? And in Marketplace terms, would this deal be 25% MU? (25k/100k)
Yes, backer’s cut would be $750. Exact MU is impossible to calculate on profit splits prior to the package being played out. MU would be anywhere from 0%-25% (the link in my last post explains this more thoroughly).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJunkie View Post
Lastly, the package is broken up into 1000 shares. The horse has 400. His shares are 100% cut and the backers have a 75% cut. Continuing with the 100k score, I believe that this means the backers shares will be worth $75 each. If true, does this mean the horses shares are with $100 each? If so, seems like the numbers are off. The horse would be getting $40k where I expect them to get $25k. Understand?
If it is a 75/25 cut, the horse should only have 250 shares – not 400. (Furthermore, if this includes stakeback – and it should – then the horse should have 0 shares for any amount of cashes $25,500 or less)
ak7062 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2011, 09:01 AM   #983
1wooley1
stranger
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 12
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

i applied so i would be able to sell action in the marketplace here for ftops/scoops, my request has gone from user control panel, and i cant start a thread can any1 let me know why ive been refused? or am i doing it wrong?

Im from the UK and just lost my US backers, any help appreciated.

screennames
IF_u_SAY_s0 stars
1wooley1 tilt
sng45man PTP
1wooley1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2011, 07:03 PM   #984
dmkai3
veteran
 
dmkai3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,614
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I was thinking about selling some action to an upcoming live tournament. However, as a US player, player xfers are disabled for me on the poker sites. At this point is there any viable alternative for selling action on the 2p2 Marketplace? What about accepting paypal transfers?
dmkai3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 02:01 AM   #985
CougarTown
stranger
 
CougarTown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

do you believe US players operating under newly-made screennames of foreign relatives through proxies/etc should be allowed to sell shares in the marketplace to events like scoop?

the MA implications are there.. although not explicit, so ROR is low, theyll close the account but likely wouldnt take the money.

would mods lock the thread? would people buy a good deal?
CougarTown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 03:09 AM   #986
Zima421
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Zima421's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 18,963
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by CougarTown View Post
do you believe US players operating under newly-made screennames of foreign relatives through proxies/etc should be allowed to sell shares in the marketplace to events like scoop?

the MA implications are there.. although not explicit, so ROR is low, theyll close the account but likely wouldnt take the money.

would mods lock the thread? would people buy a good deal?
there is no way this should be allowed.
Zima421 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 03:10 PM   #987
CougarTown
stranger
 
CougarTown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zima421 View Post
there is no way this should be allowed.
but surely when markup is adjusted for the risk, people should be allowed to buy a good deal in a free marketplace if they are so inclined.

morally the seller isn't taking advantage of other players with this kind of multiple-accounting, and is only breaking the sites' TOS because an ahole doj has our hands tied (site included)
CougarTown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 04:22 PM   #988
DoGGz
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DoGGz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: in the streets, in the lab
Posts: 17,315
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by CougarTown View Post
but surely when markup is adjusted for the risk, people should be allowed to buy a good deal in a free marketplace if they are so inclined.

morally the seller isn't taking advantage of other players with this kind of multiple-accounting, and is only breaking the sites' TOS because an ahole doj has our hands tied (site included)
Cheating is cheating kid. The fact that you didnt have the balls to post this one you real account says that you already knew the answer and reception youd get
DoGGz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 05:10 PM   #989
CougarTown
stranger
 
CougarTown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoGGz View Post
Cheating is cheating kid. The fact that you didnt have the balls to post this one you real account says that you already knew the answer and reception youd get
new accounts are new accounts. is it the marketplace's duty to uphold local rules that no player/buyer agrees with? by the same standard, should people have been shunned for selling action on bodog? anyone depositing or withdrawing from there was implicit in bank fraud, they spelled out to depositors the same process of lying to your bank/credit card that tilt/stars is being indicted for.

obviously fine young gents such as yourselves would never invest in players breaking site TOS. but is it the mp's obligation to police every site's TOS by player, or will such threads be allowed to freely advertise action?

the only downside i see to allowing threads like this would be to open up risk to stakers. but if the situation is clearly presented, why would mp want to nanny-state its backers' investments?
CougarTown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 05:22 PM   #990
Nofx Fan
banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,632
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Here's the solution to your weird proposal (surly this could have been handled way differently/better)

I don't think there is a problem if you guarantee investors funds against any account closer or the like. So basically, just write a disclaimer and stick to it.

The problem I have with the way you've brought this, and even the timing, is the marketplace was hit hard on black friday. There are many stakers who are out a lot of money. I owe my backer money. I believe 100% that the stable owners/stakers have handled this like champions , I have to give them all the credit. They were understanding from the get go (from what I've seen) and as bad as the situation is, I've yet to see any personal attacks, requests for unreasonable things, and basically they have just eaten this, knowing of course that the horses they selected will return their money asap.

For you to take this insensitive approach and offer to put people/backers at further unnecessary risk, through fault of your own (that's a key difference in this) is pathetic, insensitive and unnerving.

Post on your regular 2+2 account and make sure all your investors know you are a risk and offer to insure your risk. You may even find an escrow willing to do that for you.
Nofx Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 05:22 PM   #991
RUBINH
banned
 
RUBINH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Withered
Posts: 1,801
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by CougarTown View Post
new accounts are new accounts. is it the marketplace's duty to uphold local rules that no player/buyer agrees with? by the same standard, should people have been shunned for selling action on bodog? anyone depositing or withdrawing from there was implicit in bank fraud, they spelled out to depositors the same process of lying to your bank/credit card that tilt/stars is being indicted for.

obviously fine young gents such as yourselves would never invest in players breaking site TOS. but is it the mp's obligation to police every site's TOS by player, or will such threads be allowed to freely advertise action?

the only downside i see to allowing threads like this would be to open up risk to stakers. but if the situation is clearly presented, why would mp want to nanny-state its backers' investments?
Because no one knows who you are, so when you steal our money we have no recourse. Also you're blatantly violating the sites TOS.

If it's that important to you, move to a real country.
RUBINH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2011, 05:50 PM   #992
CougarTown
stranger
 
CougarTown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nofx Fan View Post
Here's the solution to your weird proposal (surly this could have been handled way differently/better)

I don't think there is a problem if you guarantee investors funds against any account closer or the like. So basically, just write a disclaimer and stick to it.

The problem I have with the way you've brought this, and even the timing, is the marketplace was hit hard on black friday. There are many stakers who are out a lot of money. I owe my backer money. I believe 100% that the stable owners/stakers have handled this like champions , I have to give them all the credit. They were understanding from the get go (from what I've seen) and as bad as the situation is, I've yet to see any personal attacks, requests for unreasonable things, and basically they have just eaten this, knowing of course that the horses they selected will return their money asap.

For you to take this insensitive approach and offer to put people/backers at further unnecessary risk, through fault of your own (that's a key difference in this) is pathetic, insensitive and unnerving.

Post on your regular 2+2 account and make sure all your investors know you are a risk and offer to insure your risk. You may even find an escrow willing to do that for you.
i totally get what you're saying. and maybe we're misunderstanding eachother here. i'm not asking if the forum would allow players to deceive investors while running some fly-by-night MA situation.

as i mentioned, if all info was presented above-board to investors, it'd be up to individuals to make the risk/reward decision for themselves. if markup is reduced significantly, or removed altogether to compensate for added risk/hassle, would the mp shun a seller for offering this kind of action?
CougarTown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2011, 12:29 AM   #993
Bren
old hand
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,509
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Like Doggz said, you know this is a bad idea. If your so positive it's not, ditch the gimmick and continue the discussion.

Last edited by Bren; 04-22-2011 at 12:31 AM. Reason: someting weird happened
Bren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2011, 01:48 PM   #994
tdomeski
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,321
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

It's been fun hanging out in the MP the past year or so and helping where I could.

I'm out for a bit boys.

See ya after the DARK AGES.

-tdomeski
tdomeski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2011, 03:59 PM   #995
chimre
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 63
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

hi,
im looking to sell a package for the ftops france , but i have never done that before, and i have no idea how to calculate the appopriate markup.
the total buy in ,rebuy included: 2780€ i would like to sell 75%
here is my scope


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
thanks in advance
chimre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2011, 10:13 AM   #996
jp1444
adept
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 850
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

can someone give me some advice,

basically im planning on staking and coaching my mate
gonna start him 4 tabling 25nl with a br of $400 (16 buy ins)

what %'s should i be looking as a return off him, i was thinkin something like 50% of his winnings off his first 100k hands, then also the $400 back???

any1 got some advice/guidance?
cheers
jp1444 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2011, 07:58 PM   #997
ScreaminAsian
For President
 
ScreaminAsian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: DO NOT CONGRATULATE
Posts: 33,278
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

do you guys think paypal would be a common method of buying/selling live mp shares this summer? i'm trying to think of how to put together a live package and i'd like to make buying as easy as possible.

i haven't used paypal for transfers ever, just buying rando stuff online. can the transfers be reversed within like 45 days just as purchases? if, as i'd sort of expect, you're only allowed to transfer available bank funds, i'm not sure if that's a better option to offer. it'd be either redundant to a bank transfer/wire or opens me up to risk of someone renegging.

but i don't know enough about paypal, and that's why i'm bringing this to the sticky: what positives (or other negatives) would there be to buy/sell live shares through paypal this summer?
ScreaminAsian is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2011, 02:09 PM   #998
Rainbow Warrior
flight risk
 
Rainbow Warrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: on a blanket
Posts: 5,815
Re: Paypal

Paypal is not even a possibility unless you are dealing 100% with someone you know and trust.

From Paypal (applicable to US sites and customers)
Quote:
You may not use the PayPal service for activities that involve gambling, gaming and/or any other activity with an entry fee and a prize, including, but not limited to casino games, sports betting, horse or greyhound racing, lottery tickets, other ventures that facilitate gambling, games of skill (whether or not it is legally defined as a lottery) and sweepstakes unless the operator has obtained prior approval from PayPal and the operator and customers are located exclusively in jurisdictions where such activities are permitted by law.
Rainbow Warrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2011, 10:24 AM   #999
DoGGz
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DoGGz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: in the streets, in the lab
Posts: 17,315
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

USD in Vegas and Bank Transfers will be your only real options.
DoGGz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2011, 05:15 PM   #1000
mjcace
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
mjcace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: GA, USA
Posts: 9,939
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdomeski View Post
It's been fun hanging out in the MP the past year or so and helping where I could.

I'm out for a bit boys.

See ya after the DARK AGES.

-tdomeski
+1

-mjcace
mjcace is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive