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Old 03-14-2011, 08:34 PM   #876
aisflat439
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quick Question : Am I allowed to sell/swap a percentage of myself for coaching? Is that this forum or the coaching forum?
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Old 03-14-2011, 09:38 PM   #877
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by ak7062 View Post
I agree, especially as of late. But like any market, I'm fairly sure that demand will decrease (money dries up) and overpriced sellers will be forced to lower markups to reasonable rates. Once that happens, most of the breakeven / 100-MTT sample horses, that are somehow selling out marked up packages in a few hours, won't be coming around anymore. (Until the next big spike in buyer demand)
This probably happens after everyone gets rocked in the SCOOP.
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Old 03-15-2011, 08:18 PM   #878
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Gotta say, I hope this migration of PTP'ers with their ****ty, over-complicated, 1-month+ BAPs slows down..... what a terrible way to run packages. PTP sellers that are cross-posting should really be required to state in their 2+2 selling threads how long it will take their package to run. Maybe it's just me, but I think a lot of buyers here don't necessarily realize this when it isn't stated ITT. And I also haven't looked into it much, but how much are investors being raked by PTP?

2 thumbs way down.

EDIT: Apparently 5%????? According to a post ITT. GEEEEEZ. GTFO.

Last edited by ak7062; 03-15-2011 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 03-15-2011, 09:51 PM   #879
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Action being sold on 2p2 should not be raked by PTP at all. I certainly would request the whole percent payout if I bought one of those packages and it wasn't stated otherwise.

but yes, those month long deals are just awful.
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Old 03-15-2011, 11:35 PM   #880
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

100% agree guys. It would be helpful if you could post such things in the BAP (obv try and be respectful though). I'm going to make a post now.

I know the OP from here via a couple trades and have talked to him a couple times on a messenger. This is a weird spot for me as I suggested he try and sell/buy here and get off that other sht site and I can't say I feel responsible, but I do regret not having the time to help him/show him how things are done here because now there is this result, which clearly is not ideal (cross poasting/month long/etc). That said I did tell him to look around and see how things work here and it's what I did when I first started and is what I would suggest to anyone trying to familiarize themselves with how the MP works. I can only guess he was more comfortable cross posting it because he's sold at that other site before and was probably concerned he wouldn't sell here or didn't fully understand how BAP's are run here and used the other site as a base.

Another reason this is a "tough spot" is because he used me as a reference here and I did not know it. If reference means I have talked to him and I trust him then that's fine with me but if it's closer to meaning I vouch for him (in the true sense) or I know him IRL then I'm concerned. Can anyone help me understand what a reference would mean? Perhaps I'm being over cautious and a reference just is what it is and doesn't carry too much weight. I do know that this is "tough" or just a little awkward for me because there's no good way to go about explaining this now in his thread without him feeling betrayed and while IMO he's a man of his word and is 100% fine to sell BAP's, I can't help but feel it's going to worry some investors when I clarify this.

I've advised him to "scrap" this BAP (which is now even tougher, as I think it's sold out) and am going to say that I think he should do it over and either have it done here or at PTP. This is also gonna make me look like I'm some huge back stabbing douche. This is why I really wish someone would have said something before and I regret not helping him understand how this forum works.

I also hope you guys understand he is new to the MP here and it's pretty easy to make these mistakes. I know if I ever tried PTP I would be lost and probably would not fit into every cultural custom perfectly and would really appreciate someone telling me how things work, especially unwritten things that seem to be obvious to regs but would be unknown to a noob. If you guys see someone obviously new to the MP here don't be afraid to give them a friendly post of advice in their thread and help show them boundaries and cultural norms. I would say 90%+ of the time the OP is looking for advice on such things and doesn't want to make a bad first impression. I can't help but feel if one of us did this along the way, rather than not say anything and then just come in here and say something, that this wouldn't even be to this point. ak7062, it looks like you were going to say something but then edited your post.

I don't think this is akin to telling someone rudely that their mark up is to high or whatever. These cases are different because we are talking about a brand new MP'er and people that again, imo 90%+ of the time have the best intentions and would benefit from friendly advice on their first sell. Anyway I hope I was able to explain why this is now a weird spot and I hope it's just not a bid deal period. This sucks for me, I don't want to ruin someones first sell and point out possible mistakes after the fact, especially when I think the person is a good dude, but whatever, I think OP played a role in this by not preparing himself enough for 2+2's way of doing things, I didn't help a friend who could have benefited from advice because I'm busy, and the MP investors themselves didn't help guide a new person and show them boundaries in their first BAP so I'm not gonna take all the guilt here and it just is what it is, even if it is a bit unfortunate.
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Old 03-16-2011, 12:36 AM   #881
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I don't even know who you are referring to.
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Old 03-16-2011, 12:46 AM   #882
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Originally Posted by DoGGz View Post
I don't even know who you are referring to.
The same OP ak7062 is. It's no big deal, I just care about certain things a lot and sometimes can be overly thorough. I should probably go get some weed or something, relax, not sweat the small stuff and over think things.

Wait, I quit that stuff years ago because of the over thinking...hum

tbh I'd just like to see the guy succeed and personally think his first BAP is not ideal. It was confirmed when ak7062 posted.
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:55 AM   #883
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

A link would have been useful.
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Old 03-16-2011, 02:45 AM   #884
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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A link would have been useful.
That's all I keep thinking as I read all this.
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:09 PM   #885
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

hi guys..in fact im not new here..but havent been so active and online..and im not sure to write my problem here..and if im making mistake,im soryy mods..
i want to share a subject with you before apply to stakes..and i want to make something clear before getting stakes..also i want to take your ideas..in another forum (parttimepoker),i have been banned...i didnt roll anyone ..my english wasnt better when i got DNS in that forum..and i wasnt good at rules and procedures..and i had made a mistake when registered in that forum about my ftp nickname..i tried to change it nowadays..but they didnt believe me..they just punished me and banned me..it was really not fair..because i made good money for my backers and for that site..i paid all money which i had to..and i explained everything with my heart..but they didnt believe mee...just because of that i dont want to live any problem here..im sharing this subject with you before getting stakes..and please tell me what i have to do for not living any problem in future..and if u have chance to check about me in that site,please check it..and also if u say me,dont apply to any stake,i dont apply..thanks for eveything..with my deep and kind regardss..im really good player and honest guy,and want to evaluate this..
http://forum.parttimepoker.com/appea...stigation.html
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Old 03-16-2011, 04:04 PM   #886
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoGGz View Post
A link would have been useful.
This is the thread Nofx Fan is referring to:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/16...markup-998488/

I had seen one other while lurking that day -- https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/16...h-plo8-999049/ -- which is what had provoked me to say something here. I partly wanted to get feedback from other investors before posting anything in these types of threads.
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Old 03-16-2011, 10:07 PM   #887
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nofx Fan View Post
Another reason this is a "tough spot" is because he used me as a reference here and I did not know it. If reference means I have talked to him and I trust him then that's fine with me but if it's closer to meaning I vouch for him (in the true sense) or I know him IRL then I'm concerned. Can anyone help me understand what a reference would mean?
Well, if you didn't know beforehand, you could never be held responsible for anything. And I never take references like that too seriously (as an investor), especially since you didn't even post ITT. Plus, IMO, a lot of the talk I've seen about holding references responsible for rolled stakes is pretty crazy. Most references I see on here are pretty vague -- but more importantly, a vouch definitely needs to be explicitly stated as a vouch to mean anything.
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Old 03-16-2011, 11:40 PM   #888
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

i dont think posting a package on both forums should be allowed. do you guys agree with that?
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Old 03-17-2011, 01:36 AM   #889
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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i dont think posting a package on both forums should be allowed. do you guys agree with that?
i agree
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Old 03-17-2011, 02:01 AM   #890
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by erhanxyz View Post
hi guys..in fact im not new here..but havent been so active and online..and im not sure to write my problem here..and if im making mistake,im soryy mods..
i want to share a subject with you before apply to stakes..and i want to make something clear before getting stakes..also i want to take your ideas..in another forum (parttimepoker),i have been banned...i didnt roll anyone ..my english wasnt better when i got DNS in that forum..and i wasnt good at rules and procedures..and i had made a mistake when registered in that forum about my ftp nickname..i tried to change it nowadays..but they didnt believe me..they just punished me and banned me..it was really not fair..because i made good money for my backers and for that site..i paid all money which i had to..and i explained everything with my heart..but they didnt believe mee...just because of that i dont want to live any problem here..im sharing this subject with you before getting stakes..and please tell me what i have to do for not living any problem in future..and if u have chance to check about me in that site,please check it..and also if u say me,dont apply to any stake,i dont apply..thanks for eveything..with my deep and kind regardss..im really good player and honest guy,and want to evaluate this..
http://forum.parttimepoker.com/appea...stigation.html
noone has any idea about this message? so it means i can apply to stakes??probably,here's mods doesnt think themselves as Gods like other forum's mods..i think it is really good...
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Old 03-17-2011, 01:13 PM   #891
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Anybody know of a way to filter turbo's in OPR?

I am asking because there's a lot of packages with a significant amount of (hyper/super) turbo's and I think this obviously hurts the expected ROI for any package. A couple of these in a package is no problem to me in itself, but those packages still charge between 15 and 25 percent MU. Those types of tournaments ruin the complete package imo. I am curious how various players are doing in the turbos compared to regular MTTs.

Last edited by m44; 03-17-2011 at 01:15 PM. Reason: too many 'turbo's'
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Old 03-17-2011, 01:23 PM   #892
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Anybody know of a way to filter turbo's in OPR?

I am asking because there's a lot of packages with a significant amount of (hyper/super) turbo's and I think this obviously hurts the expected ROI for any package. A couple of these in a package is no problem to me in itself, but those packages still charge between 15 and 25 percent MU. Those types of tournaments ruin the complete package imo. I am curious how various players are doing in the turbos compared to regular MTTs.
I think you have to use sharkscope advanced filters to do what you want. I also think that many/some players have a very similar roi in turbos as they do regular speeds.
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Old 03-17-2011, 01:49 PM   #893
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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I think you have to use sharkscope advanced filters to do what you want. I also think that many/some players have a very similar roi in turbos as they do regular speeds.
Thanks. I know you have lots of turbos in your packages as well, not that I'm complaining since you won a hyper turbo HU tournament when I invested in you!
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Old 03-17-2011, 05:15 PM   #894
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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i dont think posting a package on both forums should be allowed. do you guys agree with that?
So far as I know I've only bought packages posted on both forums from two players: drkamikaze and terrellk11. So yes, I agree.
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Old 03-17-2011, 06:46 PM   #895
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I don't routinely read through the staking forums; mostly respond to post reports. If people are selling packages on PTP and cross-posting them here to be sold there, that's not acceptable IMO. This isn't a forum meant for people to promote their packages from elsewhere.

Last edited by Bobo Fett; 03-17-2011 at 07:25 PM. Reason: Added "from".
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Old 03-17-2011, 08:27 PM   #896
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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If people are selling packages on PTP and cross-posting them here to be sold there, that's not acceptable IMO.
.....So should we be reporting these threads?

I mean, the PTP sellers (AFAIK) aren't advertising their PTP stake per se (as in, come to this website and buy a piece of me there). They are selling a portion of their BAPs directly on 2+2. The problem, as I see it, is that sellers aren't stating the true details of their packages on 2+2 (length of stake, PTP's rake, etc), which is really ****ed up from an investor's perspective. If cross-posting on PTP isn't against 2+2 rules itself, I feel like there should be guidelines for cross-posting and infractions for breaking them.
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Old 03-17-2011, 10:03 PM   #897
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

OK, so it sounds like this is a little more complex than I had thought - I'll bring this up in the mod forum.
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Old 03-21-2011, 04:13 AM   #898
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

It's being discussed in the mod forum but I'll repeat my general opinion here. While I don't necessarily have a problem with people selling action in multiple places, I am against people posting threads here to sell PTP-listed BAPs/deals, mainly for two reasons:

1) 2+2 doesn't rake its own membership for staking activities, so it makes little sense to allow a 3rd party to. A player buying action on this site only to have to surrender part of their proceeds to PTP isn't consistent with our being rake-free.

2) Posting links to offsite transactions, eBay listings, personal business websites (and so on) are things we just haven't allowed. We're on fairly good terms with the guys from PTP, but a flurry of staking threads here linking there is unnecessary and essentially advertising. There are other stake entrepreneurs here that have been told the same thing.

I can appreciate the idea that cross-posting the links for BAP sales on both sites is good in terms of disclosure, but creates these other issues also. I haven't seen any reason to change my opinion that you're either doing business in the Marketplace, or you're selling it elsewhere and using the Marketplace to advertise.

Last edited by Gonzirra; 03-21-2011 at 04:18 AM.
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Old 03-21-2011, 11:19 PM   #899
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Gonso, I think #1 pretty much rules it out of being allowed imo.
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Old 03-21-2011, 11:22 PM   #900
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/16.../#post25561375


Package that a few of us are having trouble wrapping our head around :

Quote:
Here's how this is going to go-I am going to have a $17,500 "package" marked up by 1.4286% rounded to $25,000. 1%=250, which gives you 1% of my entire week. Obviously, this MU is higher than possibly any other on this site, but the difference is that the buyins will be compounding and expanding exponentially. I will not be playing a total of $17,500 tournaments-rather, I will be playing as much as possible from Sunday, March 27 to Sunday, April 3rd, which means much more. A typical day for me consists of 60 or so tournaments, and my goal is to hit that at a minimum of 6 of the days. The buyins will well exceed 25K for the entire week, so do not look at it as a huge markup. On the contrary, the markup is quite small compared to most of these packages that run on a weekly basis (and potentially a negative number...not really sure how I'd figure that out though).

.5%=$125
1%=$250
2%=$500
5%=$1250
10%=$2500
Having trouble determining what the true markup will be on this among other issues. Love to hear other's thoughts on it.
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