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Old 03-06-2011, 07:20 PM   #851
BigVach
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Originally Posted by ZzRicK View Post
I have stopped registering for some tournaments at the end before but thats just because I don't feel like spewing the investors money if I'm not able to play at 100% because at that point I'm pretty tired of suckouts and worn out. But I'll continue playing the tournaments that I'm in with the best of my efforts. That's just me though, I do see where you're coming from, because you would potentially want to make more money if they play more tournaments on the stake.
Well I thought I'd mention that ZzRick isn't really an accurate depiction of most sellers who keep 0% of their action, so for new investors I'd take this comment with a grain of salt (in a good way). I've talked to some other 2+2ers about this and I've actually used Rick as a perfect example in my mind about how these cut+sb sellers should run there packages. But I think investors who do a lot of railing will agree that tons of these sellers start making bad decisions near the end of sessions. Like Rick alluded to they'll continue to reg for tournaments even with a high tilt factor and essentially chase investor's losses with investor's money. Plus a lot of the time they'll just give up on the last few games during a rotten session and play like crap. I'm not saying that all cut+sb packages are bad value but generally I think investor's are better off when the horse isn't freerolling.
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:36 PM   #852
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Hi, Zack Chada (406MT) here. I was pointed in the direction of this thread by a previous investor and thought I would comment as I was mentioned itt.

Just wanted to say that I just started selling shares to packages within the last few weeks so I am new to how it works and learning as I go. I had been selling packages at a split with stakeback and no markup, meaning that I would only make money if the package made money 2/20/11. In my mind I thought this was fair because I figured I would only make money if the package made money etc.

But after reading the forums/getting feedback/ and seeing what works for everyone else and what everyone generally likes, I will be conforming as I did with the package I posted yesterday 3/6/11.

Anyway, I'm sorry if the way I did things at first wasn't the "right way" but it wasn't in an attempt to rip anyone off or overprice myself. I believed that the deal I was offering at the time was a fair deal and that I was a sound investment.

*Cliffs
-Was Inexperienced, offered split/with stakeback/no markup
-Read forums/got feedback
-Will conform to the norm

Any other advice on how to possibly do things better when selling would also be appreciated. I'm learning as I go.

-Zack

Last edited by AngryDux; 03-07-2011 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:56 PM   #853
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I'm certainly not against the idea of profit splits w/ stakeback. Just because a horse has no bankroll doesn't mean he isn't a good investment. I just think that there seems to be a lot of horses now offering splits at >1.2 MU when their results don't necessarily warrant that.
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:07 PM   #854
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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I'm certainly not against the idea of profit splits w/ stakeback. Just because a horse has no bankroll doesn't mean he isn't a good investment. I just think that there seems to be a lot of horses now offering splits at >1.2 MU when their results don't necessarily warrant that.
What kind of markup should you charge with a 104% ROI and a ITM of 19%

Basically I'm asking advice on what kind of MU I can/should be charging for tournaments with packages of tournies of <40$.


Last edited by AngryDux; 03-07-2011 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:26 PM   #855
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Your sample size is so small that your ROI isn't really relevant. It would depend on how big the buy in of the tournaments are.
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:39 PM   #856
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Your sample size is so small that your ROI isn't really relevant. It would depend on how big the buy in of the tournaments are.
But if it were a 5,000 game sample and these were my stats, what would be fair?
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:20 PM   #857
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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But if it were a 5,000 game sample and these were my stats, what would be fair?
if that was the case, u would not be selling any action

doing so would be giving away money


*** edit: addressing DoGGz's comment below

my point being those stats r not realistic over the longterm

yes u can bink a large tny to skew ur ROI, but not ur ITM%

Last edited by ItsOnlyChips; 03-07-2011 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:25 PM   #858
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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if that was the case, u would not be selling any action

doing so would be giving away money
Still depends on the ABI of the sample and the tournaments you are going to play.
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Old 03-08-2011, 12:41 AM   #859
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*



Makes my happy that AngryDux came in this thread. Good to see horses in here too.

I for one, will always invest in 406mt because I like his rails and communication. I think the 70/30 split added tons of variance to him, but it was for small amounts that I was ok with.

406-you cant keep an ITM and ROI like you have now. I invest in you expecting about a 30-40% roi based on the BI and sites you play on, and the hands/rails I have seen. I think in all your rails that I bothered to look at, I didn't like one hand.
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:43 AM   #860
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Let's say that 406's actual expected ROI for his package was determined to be 50%. What does everyone believe the break-even cut should be from an investors perspective?
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:49 AM   #861
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I'm not buying anything I think I have less then a 10% ROI in.
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Old 03-08-2011, 03:14 AM   #862
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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I'm not buying anything I think I have less then a 10% ROI in.
this exactly, there is enough variance in mtts and 10% means there is more than you expect usually
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Old 03-08-2011, 03:15 AM   #863
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Let's say that 406's actual expected ROI for his package was determined to be 50%. What does everyone believe the break-even cut should be from an investors perspective?
vach, this is exactly what I want to know

bc the horse never assumes a loss and only profits on packages, and only at those times does he actually get/and we pay the MU, what is the tru MU we are paying

that is exactly what I want to know
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:11 PM   #864
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

My time in this forum was too shortlived

Adios to you all.

Almost every package posted (90+%) have no money to be made after considering the MU and ABI these guys are adding to them. Just too many investors looking for a sweat/place to blow one off. Don't understand it, because its a horrible way to spend time and obviously money. Think I will just pick up horses here and there and slowly work my way up.
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Old 03-08-2011, 10:58 PM   #865
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

How about just don't. Kinda like AP/UB, if that's the way you feel. It's the only way to make it count, otherwise it's lip service.
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:15 PM   #866
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Almost every package posted (90+%) have no money to be made after considering the MU and ABI these guys are adding to them. Just too many investors looking for a sweat/place to blow one off. Don't understand it, because its a horrible way to spend time and obviously money. Think I will just pick up horses here and there and slowly work my way up.
I agree, especially as of late. But like any market, I'm fairly sure that demand will decrease (money dries up) and overpriced sellers will be forced to lower markups to reasonable rates. Once that happens, most of the breakeven / 100-MTT sample horses, that are somehow selling out marked up packages in a few hours, won't be coming around anymore. (Until the next big spike in buyer demand)
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:16 PM   #867
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Looking for a 100% staker for tournaments I wanna play in, say I have time to play in a tournament at X time with a X buy in you ship the buy in and we chop any winnings up 50/50. I have a great ROI and ITM% just looking for someone to throw me in some big donkaments and have there gamble paid off by running up a score for them!
kid_golf1.
http://www.officialpokerrankings.com...9E50F.html?t=2
None of these mark up BS confusing things just a straight up stake and a 50/50 deal.
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Old 03-10-2011, 11:25 PM   #868
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Looking for a 100% staker for tournaments I wanna play in, say I have time to play in a tournament at X time with a X buy in you ship the buy in and we chop any winnings up 50/50. I have a great ROI and ITM% just looking for someone to throw me in some big donkaments and have there gamble paid off by running up a score for them!
kid_golf1.
http://www.officialpokerrankings.com...9E50F.html?t=2
None of these mark up BS confusing things just a straight up stake and a 50/50 deal.
I want an arabian princess and a brand new Ferrari.
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Old 03-11-2011, 12:43 AM   #869
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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I want an arabian princess and a brand new Ferrari.
what if you can only have one? Im leaning arabian princess. I think arabian princess roi is higher.
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:33 AM   #870
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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what if you can only have one? Im leaning arabian princess. I think arabian princess roi is higher.
I'm not so sure. I mean with a Ferrari maybe you can still attract an arabian princess but it doesn't work the other way around... I mean, I suppose the arabian princess might buy you a Ferrari anyway but then we're dealing with a huge commitment... yeah no I'd stick with the Ferrari. This way even if the arabian princess doesn't pan out you'll still have a really nice car.
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Old 03-13-2011, 02:57 PM   #871
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

whys itg showing this message when i try to create a thread in staking?


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Old 03-13-2011, 02:59 PM   #872
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Ill take the arabian princess. I'd rather take it to poundtown until I'm bored, then sell on the black market and buy the sports car.

Or maybe the legal resale value is enough to buy it. Not sure what country I'd need to move to though.
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Old 03-13-2011, 07:36 PM   #873
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/16...markup-992155/

Perfect example. And I like him. But if I look at the MU, his overall and last 120 days... then his ABI for all filters. Hmph, I would have to talk myself into buying these MTT's for this price. I think I see more value in buying him a beer.

On another note, what do you think the weekends add to a horses ROI? I always think that it doesnt change since a large part of their grinding is on the weekends. The weekend/guarantee pleas for why their MU is fair is moot to me. It's already factored in their ROI. If they only played Sundays.. maybe 5-7% tops if any?
Low stakes players will typically be looking for stakes for higher buy ins. I think that if a player is a solid winning player at an ABI of ~$10 he will also be a winner in any given sunday major. The same player looking for a stake in a $55r is another story entirely. In your example, the $109 is probably the toughest tournament, but to be honest, the others are pretty soft.

This is also why I think a winning player is 'more winning' on a sunday (at a higher variance though). Your point that their ROI on OPR includes sundays is true, but it also includes mondays through saturdays of which there are more
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Old 03-13-2011, 07:54 PM   #874
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Originally Posted by AngryDux View Post
What kind of markup should you charge with a 104% ROI and a ITM of 19%

Basically I'm asking advice on what kind of MU I can/should be charging for tournaments with packages of tournies of <40$.


Like others have said, you haven't played close to enough number of tournaments to get an idea of your expected ROI.

However, since this screenshot was made, you have played another 700 tournaments. Still not a big sample but you still advertise yourself with a screenshot where your ROI is 104% over 267 MTTs, where OPR gives you 21% over 986 as of this moment.

I understand that this screenshot might make you look a little better, but this is the sort of thing I don't like to see as an investor because it looks like you are trying to mislead me.

FWIW I have invested in some of AngryDux' packages in the past without any trouble.
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Old 03-13-2011, 09:20 PM   #875
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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whys itg showing this message when i try to create a thread in staking?


skipdan6, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

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