Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > > >

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-28-2010, 05:31 PM   #576
ProfessorBen
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
ProfessorBen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Meet my friend, "Tomato"
Posts: 9,897
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacharrrr View Post
hey, i have bought shares from about 10 people last couple of days; is it my job to keep track of those peoples results or will they usually send without me following them too closely?
nice image post to snap off non-players/rollers.
ProfessorBen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2010, 09:13 PM   #577
Zima421
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Zima421's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 18,963
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacharrrr View Post
hey, i have bought shares from about 10 people last couple of days; is it my job to keep track of those peoples results or will they usually send without me following them too closely?
you shouldnt have a problem if you invest in reputable people.


its always good to keep tabs on all the people you invest in/how that package went.
Zima421 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 09:39 AM   #578
Zacharrrr
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Zacharrrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: just donking around
Posts: 7,873
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zima421 View Post
you shouldnt have a problem if you invest in reputable people.


its always good to keep tabs on all the people you invest in/how that package went.
well its not like i dont keep track at all.
i have a spreadsheet where i write down the %, the total $, poker SN and 2p2 name.

i just think it would be a hussle to look up everybodys results.
Zacharrrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 12:38 PM   #579
DoGGz
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DoGGz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: in the streets, in the lab
Posts: 17,315
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacharrrr View Post
well its not like i dont keep track at all.
i have a spreadsheet where i write down the %, the total $, poker SN and 2p2 name.

i just think it would be a hussle to look up everybodys results.
In all my package buys, the only issue has ever been with people making arithmetic errors.
DoGGz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 09:08 PM   #580
Thibavol
adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Geneva
Posts: 927
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacharrrr View Post
hey, i have bought shares from about 10 people last couple of days; is it my job to keep track of those peoples results or will they usually send without me following them too closely?
I would keep track, or at least check everything at least once a week.

People make mistakes, i do, they do. Most of the time it's just aritmetic mistakes that are solved with a fast, simple PM. But you have to check.

Oh and i second the previous request for a need of a thread where to discuss what a proper MU is for x event for y person. I know i always have the problem of deciding mine and i have it again for incoming wcoop ME.
Thibavol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 09:17 PM   #581
The Lipo Fund
grinder
 
The Lipo Fund's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Chasing the Green Light
Posts: 13,483
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammeru173 View Post
For the first time I said something about markup in a thread yesterday. It was only after he bumped it three times after no action was sold. I was sick and tired of seeing this on the opening page and thought it was fair to say something.

I think that this is a good rule...maybe even a 2 bump rule.

thoughts?
if you dont feel the markup is fair, you can say something without them having to bump it
The Lipo Fund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 01:36 PM   #582
Pastor
grinder
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: rocking the aeron
Posts: 422
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I read the first 20+ and last 5 or so pages so excuse me if this has been done already.

Is there a template for offering stakes yet?

If not I'll have a go at one and post it up for feedback/improvement. I need to do a couple of posts offering stakes so I might as well do it.
Pastor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 09:12 PM   #583
Zacharrrr
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Zacharrrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: just donking around
Posts: 7,873
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/16...15/index2.html

would appreciate opinions.
Zacharrrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 09:41 PM   #584
AmirSF
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 977
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacharrrr View Post
In my opinion the player should pay out the entire $ value won in the satellite ($15,780 ) to investors who ask for it.

First, I think that's fair for investors and is simply the right thing to do.

Second, I think that is in the best interest of the player as well. The benefit to the player from keeping his reputation without an issue far outweighs any $ in question here.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents...
AmirSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 09:43 PM   #585
Ledders
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Ledders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: indoors
Posts: 6,819
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

As a rule, equity should be carried over. And the ~5k should be divided between investors. However that thread is a giant cluster**** already and OP seems determined not to pay out so gl to everyone involved
Ledders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 10:09 PM   #586
DoGGz
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DoGGz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: in the streets, in the lab
Posts: 17,315
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacharrrr View Post
If OP doesn't stick to what he originally said about offering cash for those who want it then he should lose market place privs. What he's trying to do is just completely ridiculous and he shouldn't be allowed to continue here if those are his practices.
DoGGz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 10:12 PM   #587
Fitzcat
grinder
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 652
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Wow, I strongly disagree with the last three posters. The player clearly did not intend to have to cover travel, etc. himself. Now he's won a package and you want him to put ~ 70% of $5k of his own money towards travel and hotel just so he can play in a package for his investors? Not to mention that he doesn't even *have* that money right now. He would have been better off not winning at all!

The investors who are saying that they didn't understand (and indeed, there was poor communication!) are complaining correctly that they paid far too much markup if this was the way the package was intended. That's true. And I think the player owes them something for this misunderstanding. Mathematically, that should be more than the markup they paid (for this portion) because nobody would have noticed if he hadn't won.

Sadly, I don't have a very good solution to offer. I'm too lazy to run the numbers right now, but how close do we get if the player

a) refunds markup paid on the satellite
b) sells the action on the PCA event as another package, with markup
c) pays out based on the proceeds of b) and the *cash* portion of the package he won. (I think that was $1k and change.)

That's basically restructuring the package so that he receives the travel+hotel costs as compensation for playing, instead of getting markup.
Fitzcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 10:29 PM   #588
AmirSF
adept
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 977
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcat View Post
Wow, I strongly disagree with the last three posters. The player clearly did not intend to have to cover travel, etc. himself. Now he's won a package and you want him to put ~ 70% of $5k of his own money towards travel and hotel just so he can play in a package for his investors? Not to mention that he doesn't even *have* that money right now. He would have been better off not winning at all!

The investors who are saying that they didn't understand (and indeed, there was poor communication!) are complaining correctly that they paid far too much markup if this was the way the package was intended. That's true. And I think the player owes them something for this misunderstanding. Mathematically, that should be more than the markup they paid (for this portion) because nobody would have noticed if he hadn't won.

Sadly, I don't have a very good solution to offer. I'm too lazy to run the numbers right now, but how close do we get if the player

a) refunds markup paid on the satellite
b) sells the action on the PCA event as another package, with markup
c) pays out based on the proceeds of b) and the *cash* portion of the package he won. (I think that was $1k and change.)

That's basically restructuring the package so that he receives the travel+hotel costs as compensation for playing, instead of getting markup.
The player won ~$15k in the satellite, investors should have the right to get $ for that, period.

There was a misunderstanding, I believe it's in the benefit of the player to bite the bullet (and I doubt this is going to be of any significant cost to the player, as the tournament entry can be sold at a markup - and the travel does have $ value for the player) - and just fully take the side of the investors.
The longer this is delayed the more "rep" damage the player is creating for himself, and this by far outweighs the $ in question here.
AmirSF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 10:34 PM   #589
Sect7G
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: calling a spade a spade
Posts: 11,231
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I posted in the thread, and I was option a) way too harsh or option b) saying it sadly how it is.

Last edited by Sect7G; 08-30-2010 at 10:41 PM.
Sect7G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2010, 04:38 AM   #590
Zacharrrr
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Zacharrrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: just donking around
Posts: 7,873
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

thanks for your support. investors are clearly in the right here (imo) and op is acting like a scumbag.

he intends to have nice bahamas vacation and scam us for 5k. wp
Zacharrrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2010, 05:08 AM   #591
tdomeski
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,321
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacharrrr View Post
thanks for your support. investors are clearly in the right here (imo) and op is acting like a scumbag.

he intends to have nice bahamas vacation and scam us for 5k. wp
I don't think the investors are in the right at all. OP might be a scumbag (really not even sure on this, looks like a hustle but he might just be an idiot), but he put an offer out there, clarified in detail what he meant by the offer, and the investors accepted the offer. I understand there was a disconnect between what he offered and what most investors thought they were getting, but I don't think it's particularly close.
tdomeski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2010, 08:55 AM   #592
DoGGz
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
DoGGz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: in the streets, in the lab
Posts: 17,315
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdomeski View Post
I don't think the investors are in the right at all. OP might be a scumbag (really not even sure on this, looks like a hustle but he might just be an idiot), but he put an offer out there, clarified in detail what he meant by the offer, and the investors accepted the offer. I understand there was a disconnect between what he offered and what most investors thought they were getting, but I don't think it's particularly close.
It's the investors that want cash after he said he'd pay cash value that are really getting hosed. I do agree that he shouldn't be expected to cover Star's over the top travel expenses and the real value of the package is closer to $12,000.

Besides that, I didn't buy the package so how it gets resolved isn't much my concern. One of the biggest issues is people snap buying packages from players they don't know with policies that aren't really that clear.
DoGGz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2010, 09:40 AM   #593
Zacharrrr
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Zacharrrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: just donking around
Posts: 7,873
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

hi, again i see somebody selling 90% of their action at 1.20
thus getting paid to play the events and freerolling the last 10%.

am i alone for thinking this is shady for people who advertise themselves as big winners ? nobody in their right mind would sell that much if they are big winners.
Zacharrrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2010, 11:13 AM   #594
rje8686
Pooh-Bah
 
rje8686's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Nick Gaskin is a scammer
Posts: 3,603
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacharrrr View Post
hi, again i see somebody selling 90% of their action at 1.20
thus getting paid to play the events and freerolling the last 10%.

am i alone for thinking this is shady for people who advertise themselves as big winners ? nobody in their right mind would sell that much if they are big winners.
correct. im most worried why OP doesnt invest some of his own money if they are as good as they claim
rje8686 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2010, 11:19 AM   #595
marek_heinz
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
marek_heinz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Posts: 14,033
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacharrrr View Post
hi, again i see somebody selling 90% of their action at 1.20
thus getting paid to play the events and freerolling the last 10%.

am i alone for thinking this is shady for people who advertise themselves as big winners ? nobody in their right mind would sell that much if they are big winners.
Definitely, unless they are lying about their ROI or have ulterior motives, it doesnt make sens from an EV standpoint for them, thus is definitely worrisome
marek_heinz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2010, 11:33 AM   #596
Hammeru173
Pooh-Bah
 
Hammeru173's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,709
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Whatever happened to the post at the top of the marketplace page in which everyone pretty much suggested to divide the marketplace into live/online? Is this going to happen?
Hammeru173 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2010, 05:41 PM   #597
uncforte
centurion
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 133
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Is there a mechanism in place for arbitration on here by the moderators or someone else in case of dispute. I'm involved in this ridiculous terrellk situation and I feel like people have gotten so angry that there's no hope for compromise. I'm new to 2p2 but was hoping that there might be something in place. Thanks so much for your help, uncforte.

If this is the wrong place to post this I apologize and mods please delete. Thx.
uncforte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2010, 08:57 PM   #598
Zacharrrr
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Zacharrrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: just donking around
Posts: 7,873
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

in case anybody missed that thread: its here https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/16...15/index3.html

i would also agree to a panel of 3 mods as judges
Zacharrrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2010, 10:57 PM   #599
tdomeski
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 8,321
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

The reason I got so riled up in that thread (admittedly mobills pushed some buttons that got me a little heated) is because I feel like going away from what is explicitly offered and accepted is setting a horrible precedent in this MP. The offer was clarified at least once in that thread, and investors accepted the terms as is. No doubt there was a miscommunication in what the investors thought they were getting (and they probably wouldn't have bought the action if they knew exactly what was being offered), but it seems clear to me that the OP explicitly did not include the travel expenses in the package.

The fact that the standard is travel expenses should be included in the value of the package is irrelevant seeing how OP explicitly stated in a hypothetical that travel expenses weren't paid out of his pocket.

Investors feeling blindsided by this is kind of silly in my opinion. I think that if there was only one single investor in that thread the opinion of the thread would be that OP didn't owe anything for travel expenses. Kind of shocked OP is still attempting to settle something after all the out of line attacks on his character by a few investors.

If I were an investor I would absolutely not be pushing for arbitration from an outside party and would hope to settle for anything greater than the price of the piece on simply the tournament action. If the directions of any arbitrator are to read the terms of the package sold and the expectations of when a seat was won, the investors would be drawing dead on getting a piece of the travel expenses in my opinion.

Last edited by tdomeski; 08-31-2010 at 11:05 PM.
tdomeski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2010, 11:05 PM   #600
uncforte
centurion
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 133
Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdomeski View Post
The reason I got so riled up in that thread (admittedly mobills pushed some buttons that got me a little heated) is because I feel like going away from what is explicitly offered and accepted is setting a horrible precedent in this MP. The offer was clarified at least once in that thread, and investors accepted the terms as is. No doubt there was a miscommunication in what the investors thought they were getting (and they probably wouldn't have bought the action if they knew exactly what was being offered), but it seems clear to me that the OP explicitly did not include the travel expenses in the package.

The fact that the standard is travel expenses should be included in the value of the package is irrelevant seeing how OP explicitly stated in a hypothetical that travel expenses weren't paid out of his pocket.

Investors feeling blindsided by this is kind of silly in my opinion. I think that if there was only one single investor in that thread the opinion of the thread would be that OP didn't owe anything for travel expenses. Kind of shocked OP is still attempting to settle something after all the out of line attacks on his character by a few investors.

If I were an investor I would absolutely not be pushing for arbitration from an outside party and would hope to settle for anything greater than the price of the piece on simply the tournament action. If the directions of any arbitrator was to read the terms of the package sold and the expectations of when a seat was won, the investors would be drawing dead on getting a piece of the travel expenses in my opinion.
If that's what an outside arbitrator decided I would abide by it. I'm probably in the minority but I'm not trying to get every last nickel I can. I just want what's fair. And if I'm wrong I'm willing to just take the piece owed me. I'm sorry your character was attacked in the thread it seems like this whole situation just spiraled quickly out of control. I'm just looking to wrap it up in as fair and amicable way as possible (again I may be in the minority here).
uncforte is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive