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Old 08-25-2010, 08:56 PM   #551
Zacharrrr
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

whats going on with some people selling 90% of their action at markup or 80% at 25% markup ? they are just looking for freerolls ?

looks pretty shady
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Old 08-25-2010, 08:58 PM   #552
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Originally Posted by Zacharrrr View Post
whats going on with some people selling 90% of their action at markup or 80% at 25% markup ? they are just looking for freerolls ?

looks pretty shady
i havent seen this lately.


selling 80% at 25% markup would mean they have 80% with nothing invested, and there are a lot of differing opinions on whether thats ok/accepted.


selling 90% at 25% markup cant be good though.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:06 PM   #553
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I mean I guess people can question why a good player HAS to sell enough action to freeroll, but I can't understand why people feel like the value of the package is diminished because of that specifically. Do you guys really think this person will just punt his money making opportunity? People know if they don't play their best most likely they won't get investors again in the future, it would be really dumb to not play their best. I've always invested money in my packages because I know they are +ev and I am able to do so fwiw. Some people just don't have a lot of money to work with as a bankroll for any one of a million reasons but have the skill to be +ev in larger tournaments so this is their best option...

Edit: obviously anything more than freerolling is no good, and I guess I'd be more likely to buy the action of someone who bought some of their own action than not but meh, these people don't deserve to be **** on as much as they are itt imo
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:26 PM   #554
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Originally Posted by JP OSU View Post
Edit: obviously anything more than freerolling is no good, and I guess I'd be more likely to buy the action of someone who bought some of their own action than not but meh, these people don't deserve to be **** on as much as they are itt imo
I'll go one further and say even if they're more than freerolling it doesn't matter. The only (mathematical) difference between selling 90% at 1.25 ("more than freerolling") and selling 90% at 1.0 is that they have more money in their pocket before the tournament starts. They're still playing for 10% and obviously want to do as well as possible for that.

That said, it's usually a warning sign - why does somebody who can command a 1.25 markup need to sell 90%? Something else is usually amiss.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:42 PM   #555
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Although JPOSU makes sense that why would people play worse, I'm of the opinion that freerolling yourself just subconciously leads to worse play.

I know someone who freerolled them in a package recently and I specifically didn't invest for that reason. Without trying to be results orientated too much, they made a MASSIVE misclick (425k instead of 42.5) late on and 3bet T2o oop (then cbet a wettish board iirc).

I don't feel that a player with at least some of their own money invested would make these mistakes at the same frequencies as someone who is freerolling.
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:06 PM   #556
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Although JPOSU makes sense that why would people play worse, I'm of the opinion that freerolling yourself just subconciously leads to worse play.

I know someone who freerolled them in a package recently and I specifically didn't invest for that reason. Without trying to be results orientated too much, they made a MASSIVE misclick (425k instead of 42.5) late on and 3bet T2o oop (then cbet a wettish board iirc).

I don't feel that a player with at least some of their own money invested would make these mistakes at the same frequencies as someone who is freerolling.
Then you don't understand the point I made. Once the tournament starts, both players in my example are playing for 10%. No more, no less. There's *no* difference in how they play. One guy just has more money in his pocket. (But for all we know, the guy with more money was the 1.0 guy, because he was richer to begin with, lol.)
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:16 PM   #557
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

I *think* I agree with you and I think we would be splitting hairs if we got much deeper into this so I'll just leave it at that. My personal opinion is that someone who is freerolling will not play as well as someone who has a reasonable amount of their own money invested. That is only my opinion and I have nothing to back it up other than "feel"
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Old 08-26-2010, 02:02 AM   #558
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

All,

Maybe someone can help me with a few questions:

(1) I got this PM from someone trying to invest in a package I put up. Any ideas?

Hey, I got a message from stars saying "Dear xxx,

It has come to our attention that you are transferring funds recently deposited into your PokerStars account. For the security of your account and information within, please provide a reason for the transfer as well as an explanation of your relation to the receiver.

Regards,

PokerStars Security"

I play on FTP and I just deposited on stars so I could ship you basically since you didn't take FTP, am I not allowed to do that, what should I tell them?? Can I say its a stake??

(2) Based on feedback I changed the package I put up to 4 separate packages. I have it all in the same thread right now.
Is it possible for me to get a mod to change my first post? if so how do that?

Thanks for any help!
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Old 08-26-2010, 02:19 AM   #559
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

As for the debate about people coming into peoples staking threads and commenting on the M.U. I think a reasonable compromise would be to not allow it until the OP bumps his own thread. This means the action is not selling, and the OP himself must be questioning if his M.U was fair to begin with. The downside is inexperienced backers may be getting blatantly gouged and no one is allowed to comment on it which is not good for the marketplace either.
So the rule would be no comments until OP bumps the thread. If he doesn't want comments then he can't bump it, but then he gets no exposure and is even less likely to sell. Just an idea, any thoughts?
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Old 08-26-2010, 02:43 AM   #560
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Amir- 1) you may have to have playthru with the funds if I'm reading your question right. it shouldn't be a problem if you answer them straightforward about for a stake, and they'll probably just disallow the transfer if anything. nothing about intersite transfers is condoned by stars.


2) pm one of the mods of the forum with specifics.
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Old 08-26-2010, 03:14 AM   #561
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Originally Posted by apefish View Post
Amir- 1) you may have to have playthru with the funds if I'm reading your question right. it shouldn't be a problem if you answer them straightforward about for a stake, and they'll probably just disallow the transfer if anything. nothing about intersite transfers is condoned by stars.


2) pm one of the mods of the forum with specifics.
What do you mean by "playthru"?
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Old 08-26-2010, 03:18 AM   #562
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Originally Posted by AmirSF View Post
What do you mean by "playthru"?
As a general rule, PokerStars won't let someone deposit money simply to transfer to another person. If that person who deposited doesn't play on PS, he probably will not be allowed to transfer you money.
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Old 08-26-2010, 03:27 AM   #563
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Got it, thanks for explaining.
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Old 08-26-2010, 04:24 AM   #564
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Originally Posted by Sect7G View Post
As for the debate about people coming into peoples staking threads and commenting on the M.U. I think a reasonable compromise would be to not allow it until the OP bumps his own thread. This means the action is not selling, and the OP himself must be questioning if his M.U was fair to begin with. The downside is inexperienced backers may be getting blatantly gouged and no one is allowed to comment on it which is not good for the marketplace either.
So the rule would be no comments until OP bumps the thread. If he doesn't want comments then he can't bump it, but then he gets no exposure and is even less likely to sell. Just an idea, any thoughts?
I am relatively new to this forum and don't have a lot of experience either buying action or selling action, so with that said - here's my opinion:

Why not have a thread in this forum, call it "mark-up" discussion or whatever, where people can discuss what they feel is a fair "mark-up".
New buyers could go and ask questions there and get responses from more experienced buyers.
Sellers can voice their opinion, etc

Seems like the forum could benefit from something like that.

I'm doubtful that a system where people question specific MU in the selling thread would work. Every thread I saw where that came up, the discussion ended up degenerating into something else.
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Old 08-26-2010, 04:29 AM   #565
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Originally Posted by DoGGz View Post
As a general rule, PokerStars won't let someone deposit money simply to transfer to another person. If that person who deposited doesn't play on PS, he probably will not be allowed to transfer you money.
Will two days of heavy grinding get them off the players back?? Also if they deny the transfer now, will they give the player a hard time if he tries to ship again a few days to the same player later even though he has played a bit?
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Old 08-26-2010, 12:12 PM   #566
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Will two days of heavy grinding get them off the players back?? Also if they deny the transfer now, will they give the player a hard time if he tries to ship again a few days to the same player later even though he has played a bit?
Yes, once you've played with the money after depositing it, you're ok to transfer. And no, they usually don't hassle you if you try sending again after a transfer has been denied. Sometimes if you press them they'll even tell you how many VPPs they want you to earn before you can send.

They have the same policy about cashing out after somebody transfers too you - you have to play a while before you can withdraw.
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Old 08-26-2010, 02:35 PM   #567
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Not sure if this has been asked before, but I think it would be really beneficial to be able to personally "sticky" or "highlight" or do something to make a note of the threads you've bought shares in so it would be visible from the buying shares lobby.

Even if I could just put a virtual red dot next to the threads I've bought shares in so I can quickly see how it's selling or the updates that the seller has made

just a thought
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Old 08-26-2010, 04:11 PM   #568
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Not sure if this has been asked before, but I think it would be really beneficial to be able to personally "sticky" or "highlight" or do something to make a note of the threads you've bought shares in so it would be visible from the buying shares lobby.

Even if I could just put a virtual red dot next to the threads I've bought shares in so I can quickly see how it's selling or the updates that the seller has made

just a thought
+1
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Old 08-26-2010, 06:46 PM   #569
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Originally Posted by Birgit70 View Post
I do alot of buying shares here and i would never ever buy a second time action of someone who does not provide hh of his game.
The reason is verry easy: you can be a verry good player but are really unlucky and therefore show no profit in your bap. If this happens i am willing to buy again as luck will turn around
But i also may see lots of moves i don't like so even when this player shows profit i would not buy again as it was pure look.

So for that i need to see hh to decide if i ever would buy shares again.

And one other thing: If you play with my money i believe i have all right to aks for hh as you are basically my employee and i want to see how you do your work.
If you believe the backer has lost al rights with giving him your money and then he has just to sit there and wait what you tell him how the outcome was i would never ever think about buying shares from you.
Haven't poked my head in this thread for awhile, but I disagree with this. In buying shares, I expect people to update me when they bust or when they hit the money/final table/get heads up/win. I don't expect any hand histories, but I appreciate people that post their bustout hands. When I sell pieces I like to go above that and update at every break.

If you bought a piece of me and badgered me for a particular hand history/questioned a play I made I would probably go out of my way to not work with you again. It's not that I take offense to it or think I am a better player than you, it's just that there are many ways to play a hand of poker and without all relevant information your opinion is likely of no value. Also you are likely emotionally tilted because you lost money buying a piece. If you are particularly interested in discussing the strategy of the hand, you can post it in HSMTT or whatever the appropriate forum is.

Finally, if you think of people you buy pieces of as your 'employee' you are approaching this the wrong way.

Cheers,

tdomeski
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Old 08-27-2010, 12:49 AM   #570
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Haven't poked my head in this thread for awhile, but I disagree with this. In buying shares, I expect people to update me when they bust or when they hit the money/final table/get heads up/win. I don't expect any hand histories, but I appreciate people that post their bustout hands. When I sell pieces I like to go above that and update at every break.

If you bought a piece of me and badgered me for a particular hand history/questioned a play I made I would probably go out of my way to not work with you again. It's not that I take offense to it or think I am a better player than you, it's just that there are many ways to play a hand of poker and without all relevant information your opinion is likely of no value. Also you are likely emotionally tilted because you lost money buying a piece. If you are particularly interested in discussing the strategy of the hand, you can post it in HSMTT or whatever the appropriate forum is.

Finally, if you think of people you buy pieces of as your 'employee' you are approaching this the wrong way.

Cheers,

tdomeski
Seriously. I'd prefer anyone who thought of me as their 'employee' because they bought a piece of my action to simply avoid my threads all together.

Expect I play my best? Yes. Employee??? Get out.
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Old 08-27-2010, 01:01 AM   #571
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exxplosive View Post
Not sure if this has been asked before, but I think it would be really beneficial to be able to personally "sticky" or "highlight" or do something to make a note of the threads you've bought shares in so it would be visible from the buying shares lobby.

Even if I could just put a virtual red dot next to the threads I've bought shares in so I can quickly see how it's selling or the updates that the seller has made

just a thought

at the same time maybe have a black dot for package we arent interested at all . Might be too much work here but who knows
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Old 08-27-2010, 02:47 PM   #572
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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Originally Posted by Sect7G View Post
As for the debate about people coming into peoples staking threads and commenting on the M.U. I think a reasonable compromise would be to not allow it until the OP bumps his own thread. This means the action is not selling, and the OP himself must be questioning if his M.U was fair to begin with. The downside is inexperienced backers may be getting blatantly gouged and no one is allowed to comment on it which is not good for the marketplace either.
So the rule would be no comments until OP bumps the thread. If he doesn't want comments then he can't bump it, but then he gets no exposure and is even less likely to sell. Just an idea, any thoughts?
For the first time I said something about markup in a thread yesterday. It was only after he bumped it three times after no action was sold. I was sick and tired of seeing this on the opening page and thought it was fair to say something.

I think that this is a good rule...maybe even a 2 bump rule.

thoughts?
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Old 08-27-2010, 02:56 PM   #573
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

When that happens, the whole community has realised that OP is charging ridiculous markup so there is no need to comment, other than to point out to OP what the problem was. If he has any braincells he should work it out on his own and if not, then just let him be imo.

If someone is selling out who you believe is charging too much markup, I personally wouldn't comment in the thread and instead talk to friends over aim about whether I am indeed correct in my judgement.
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Old 08-28-2010, 12:33 PM   #574
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

hey, i have bought shares from about 10 people last couple of days; is it my job to keep track of those peoples results or will they usually send without me following them too closely?
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Old 08-28-2010, 01:37 PM   #575
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Re: ***Official Staking Discussion Thread: Use this thread for Selling Shares advice/questions*

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hey, i have bought shares from about 10 people last couple of days; is it my job to keep track of those peoples results or will they usually send without me following them too closely?
Well, I certainly would keep track of who you sent money, but you probably will get your money without having to ever message them.
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