I already have another sticky for this, but I want to get the word out:

Staking Rails

Yeah, thats what I meant, he's making a -EV decision by not making the most +EV decision, when other factors are equal (i.e. same amount of effort invested. Basically an opportunity cost mistake)

Well every decision regarding selling shares is either more -ev for the seller than not selling or -ev for the buyer(or it can be neutral ev for both rarely). Except in an perfect example like the one I gave with 10% of $5k wsop they are playing for $500 + they have mark-up on the other 90% instead of just playing for 100% of a $500 tourney (this is true only if ROI(on $500 tourney) - ROI(on 5k tourney) < mark-up). In every other situation either the buyer or the seller is making a -ev move.

Sure, if the seller has a ROI higher than MU, he's making a -EV move, but only because he needs to lower variance. The question for him doesnt stand - do I sell shares or do I play either way. The options are - do I play and sell shares or do I not play. The problem arises when said person sells enough % to cover the buyin to the tournament, yet keeps selling more. The variance aspect is already take care of there and they are making a -EV decision.

Wouldnt playing at lower stakes with 100% of his action be a better decision for him.

Usually - unless its a big series like SCOOP/WCOOP or WSOP where the value is bigger even while selling shares

The tournaments at the venetian are probably at the same value like the WSOP.

Hi, can someone give me an idea of a fair mark up for a person with a 30 percent roi, if any? Thanks

It would depend on the size of buy in to the tourney that you want and compare it to your ABI, AFS and choice of game. If all is equal 30% seems fair. But you might want to lower it if your in a hurry to sell or some other reason.

That sounds really high, and wouldn't your scenario just be a wash then? There would have to be some incentive to investors, surely. Thanks for any help, I'm spending a few hours reading around this sub forum and it's just hard to take in all the info.

Thanks for the help.

EDIT: I've read all the stickies and am currently reading the ethics thread that was recently created. Any other must reads you can recommend?

in my opinion i think 20% markup would be fair in that case assuming similar abi and decent sample size

I'm pretty annoyed with one of my horses right now who just had a big score at the WSOP and paid me promptly, but withheld 29% of my money so he could pay the taxes for the whole amount. Nowhere in his thread does it mention anything about taxes or withholding. I actually want to pay my own taxes, because I'm going to get double taxed on it now because I can't write off my losses now if I'm not reporting my winnings.

He said none of his other investors had a problem with him withholding 29%.

I think I might be retiring from this forum soon. Just tired of all the BS.

I'm not overreacting, right? Am I right to be annoyed by this?

george

initial view is i agree with you but not an expert. the way it seems at face value is he's paying the upfront withholdings but come filing time he would net the investment and payouts he made and in essence get the benefit of the withholdings at the expense of you.

i think as long as he nets it with you in the end game the impact is less. does this link help or is this old news to you?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57...estion-440623/

That is complete BS and totally nonstandard of course.

FWIW at least 2 of his investors have PM's me saying they're annoyed with the situation but didn't want to speak up because apparently he told them that I was ok with the way he handled the tax situation, which is complete BS.

I actually do believe he's trying to do the right thing but is receiving horrible advice from his accountant.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/16...winner-790272/

ugh, that's a joke. other than taking the cash (assuming he paid you in cash) and sticking it under your mattress and not reporting it, you are essentially eating that 29% (which you shouldn't be, obviously).

Yeah like I told him, my choices now are to either illegally launder the $ or to effectively be taxed twice on it. Just puts me in a horrible spot now.

yup its complete bs.

george

i dont pretend to be an expert but the link i put above talks about getting a 1099 from him that describes the deal and how much of the taxes taken out were yours - granted you dont really know him but could at least be something - text below
e

Ideally, your backee would submit Form 5754 when he cashes, and Harrah's would generate two W-2Gs: one for you and one for him. However, Harrah's refuses to honor Form 5754. (That's a violation of federal law, but that doesn't help you.)

Because of this your backee should issue you a Form 1099-MISC at year-end showing how much of his winnings belong to you. He should note in the "Account Number" field that it's for gambling or the WSOP. You would then claim those winnings on Line 21 (Other Income) or your Schedule C (if you're a professional) with your other gambling winnings. Your backee would send the 1099-MISC and a Form 1096 to the IRS.

Finally, if you're in the business of backing--say you have a stable of horses like Sheets--then you should consult your professional tax advisor on dealing with some other issues that would likely arise.

-- Russ Fox

Yeah I'll look into that but ideally I'd rather get the full payment and deal with the taxes myself, but that would be a good secondary option I suppose.

amen

I have a question for Canadian stakers. I'm Canadian and I've bought a couple % of the WSOP this year and would like to know if there is anything I need to know wrt taxes and forms should my guys cash. After reading about George's headaches today I figured I should ask before I (hopefully) receive any funds from a cash. I assume I just claim it as income, but do the stakees have to withhold?

Hi guys, I couldn't find anything on this question. Is it in good form to continue a thread in this forum that was only one day set specific? Basically, after profits, I offered to run the same or very similar set the following day and all share holders wanted to reinvest. Should I start a new thread, or is it ok to continue with the current?

I'm asking because the title would be wrong, and the thread may be bumped, witch I know, at least as far as the reason a rail thread sub forum was created, can be considered bad form.

Thanks

Another question, and thanks in advance for any help.

I never visited this sub forum in the past, but have spent a lot of time in the person to person transfer thread. My question is: Is there a list of people to not do transfers with, or would you suggest doing my up most diligence in researching someone before accepting a transfer?

My concern stems from bad funds, or bad people and being connected with them. The way I see it now it seems a free for all and when you put up a thread someone can just come in and buy or reserve, and in most cases I wont know that person at all. Have there been problems with people being "tied" to other bad funds or bad people through transfer alone? Is this just an inherent risk in selling shares? Is there a way to lesson this risk without giving up share selling?

Thanks, guys. My account means a lot to me, and would feel better with any knowledge I can gain.

Hi everyone,

I just made a deal last night with a friend/coworker (my bosses' boss) whereby he agreed to stake me in the main event for a 75% cut in my winnings. I would not have played the event but for his staking, thus it was the deal I offered him after some discussion. He will pay all expenses and will only be entitled to winnings from the tournament, not endorsements etc. Couple of questions:

1. Anything else I need to about in advance before I finalize this?
2. How do taxes work? IOW, how do I ensure that I'm only paying taxes on my keep?

I'm sure I have other questions but thats it for now.

Thanks in advance.