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Old 06-29-2010, 03:04 AM   #176
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

Forcing him to get back in gambling w the obligation of good results to pay back his backers does seem like the best idea to me. He expressed his need to completely stop poker.

I would not feel good forcing him to play now he is aware of all the problems poker has caused to him and his close entourage...
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:37 AM   #177
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

Not really any of my business, but those of you suggesting a problem gambler continue gambling to pay off a gambling debt are out of your minds.
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Old 06-29-2010, 04:12 AM   #178
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

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Originally Posted by kurosh View Post
Hiv is a good guy and a good player with emotional and discipline control problems. Some of the people who invested in him were very aware of his past and the risk of this happening. They invested anyway. What does that tell you?

If I were an investor, I would tell him to keep the money and play EXCLUSIVELY MTTS to run it up. NO CASH AT ALL. I think with his guilt and someone "handling" him, he will make the money back.
you cant be serious
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Old 06-29-2010, 04:16 AM   #179
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

Well the one saving grace of his post is that he didn't suggest Hiv earn the money back by selling crack to school children or something.
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Old 06-29-2010, 04:18 AM   #180
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

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Not really any of my business, but those of you suggesting a problem gambler continue gambling to pay off a gambling debt are out of your minds.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, THIS
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Old 06-29-2010, 04:58 AM   #181
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

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FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, THIS
+1. It might even be the best way to get my money back, but at what price?
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:05 AM   #182
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

How do you plan on paying this money back? You said you were going to "get a real job". What skill sets do you have? This is a lot of money we're talking about here... I want to see some sort of plan ASAP detailing your plans on how you're going to repay everyone you stole from.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:08 AM   #183
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

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If I were an investor, I would tell him to keep the money and play EXCLUSIVELY MTTS to run it up. NO CASH AT ALL. I think with his guilt and someone "handling" him, he will make the money back.
Also, if this is not a level I seriously hope that you're not mentally ******ed. This could be the worst plan I have ever heard in my life. Let's give the degenerate gambler more freedom so he can **** up again and blow the rest of the money!
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:47 AM   #184
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

Kurosh, pjf--

Give me a break. Telling HIV to keep playing poker is telling him to throw away his best chance at a good life--unlike a lot of problem gamblers, he actually wants not to gamble. Let him try to follow through on his own plan.

All my best,

--Nate
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:54 AM   #185
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

Everybody is talking about how gambling is a terrible plan but what other options are there? If he gets some random job making $50K a year it's going to take him several years to pay off. I know nothing about him but it sounds like he has been playing full time so I'm not sure what type of job he will even be able to get making even $50K/year. I don't think he should play with the stake money, but it seems playing MTT's is going to make him the most money, which would be biggest concern if I were him.
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Old 06-29-2010, 01:41 PM   #186
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

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Everybody is talking about how gambling is a terrible plan but what other options are there? If he gets some random job making $50K a year it's going to take him several years to pay off. I know nothing about him but it sounds like he has been playing full time so I'm not sure what type of job he will even be able to get making even $50K/year. I don't think he should play with the stake money, but it seems playing MTT's is going to make him the most money, which would be biggest concern if I were him.

so im one of the stakers and of course i want my money back as soon as possible. but i dont want this at the expense of a kid who's going to end up in jail or worse at the expense of that. if it means jonathan has to forego gambling totally and pay me back over ten years im ok with that

That said, if we find out he's back gambling somehow and hasnt made an effort to pay us back, then all is fair game

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Old 06-29-2010, 01:59 PM   #187
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

It's a small amount of money to me (I only had 0.5%) so if I get it ten years from now it's whatever, but I think that is completely absurd for anybody who had a substantial piece. Getting a real job isn't going to magically make him less degenerate, and IMO the longer this goes on the less likely people get paid. My whole point is he should do whatever is going to make him the most money the fastest.
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:10 PM   #188
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

I was a problem gambler at one point. A problem gambler is someone without emotional control and discipline. It's a part of growing up to develop those skills. I used to tilt and spew off tens of thousands at blackjack or huge stakes. Now, I just get up and walk away from the computer whenever I start feeling that way. Lots of people on these boards have had similar problems. Some overcame them and became great players. Some blew their bankrolls and end up begging for stakes.

He is saying those things because he, rightfully, feels incredibly guilty. The bottom line is that he has made money for however many years. IMO, he can overcome his problems.

Lol @ him getting a 50k/year job. He will be lucky to get something above minimum wage. Do you know how long it's going to take him to pay off 22k with that? You think it'd be better for him to give you all his savings for the next 10 years than play MTTs and do it in less than a year?
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:32 PM   #189
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

Yeah, I also think it's unlikely he finds a job making $50K/year but didn't know if he had any type of post-secondary education or other training. Working two weeks for a check of less than $1,000 can become pretty defeating.
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:33 PM   #190
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

Quote:
You think it'd be better for him to give you all his savings for the next 10 years than play MTTs and do it in less than a year?
the problem here is that better is a relative term, which i know you do not need explained to you. i am not going to give my opinion since it doesn't really matter.
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:43 PM   #191
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

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Yeah, I also think it's unlikely he finds a job making $50K/year but didn't know if he had any type of post-secondary education or other training. Working two weeks for a check of less than $1,000 can become pretty defeating.
Yup. Post-taxes and expenses, it's not going to be much. Unless he is a saint, he's not going to be paying for very long.
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:21 PM   #192
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

I hear rent boys get decent money. Jus sayin.
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Old 06-29-2010, 03:25 PM   #193
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

I am pretty surprised that most of investors are very understanding
It's a huge generousity that some of you would rather collect the money back later rather than giving this guy a hard time to force him to do things that he doesn't want to
I think his gambling problem is probably serious enough so that he wants to stay away from anything that could tilt him (Probably end up gambling again when that happens)

However, I think if someone could send him like $546 each Sunday (With the money he sent to one of the posters) , for example, to let him play some major events. Or just let him use the money he makes from working to play on those (Not use them to pay you guys back), it would be a more realistic way for him to pay back in a more acceptable time frame (Some of you still don't like the years long paying back plan as I read)

The thing I am more concerned is that if he would be back to a degen again if he hits something big. Maybe he would forget about everything that happened and start to live like a rockstar. We all know that he will go back to where he was 4 years again pretty soon. I don't know hiv at all except for some FL sessions I played against him long time ago and I have even forgot how he played. However, since I have spent a lot of time and money to fix my gambling problem, I am pretty positive about his post which advises people to stay away from it. I think he is very brave and responsible for what he has done. For those people who flamed him all the way, I hope you have never screwed up you life and never will

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Old 06-29-2010, 04:55 PM   #194
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

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Old 06-29-2010, 05:05 PM   #195
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

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I think he is very brave and responsible for what he has done. For those people who flamed him all the way, I hope you have never screwed up you life and never will
I don't think anyone has flamed him. The fact is, the dude stole a ton of money from us. You think he deserves our generosity and patience? I know people had more money than me invested in him, but I am pissed on principle. Stealing is stealing.

"Making mistakes" as you put it is a completely different situation. He lost this money on multiple nights, in multiple sessions. He then lied to multiple people about how things were going (as far as I can tell in between losing all the money) On top of all this, he also admitted to playing tournaments when he knew he was not playing optimally, which is even more tilting. When I give someone money to play, I expect that they will not register for tournaments if they aren't feeling/playing 100%.

I just don't understand why you expect his investors to have so much compassion. Screwing up is one thing, but dishonesty is a totally different situation whether you own up to it after-the-fact or not.
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Old 06-29-2010, 05:28 PM   #196
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

A variation of what atmstuck said seems best. Make a schedule of online tournaments for him to play. Send him exactly how much he needs to play it that day. Confirm he played the tournaments. Have him send any winnings back immediately.
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Old 06-29-2010, 05:43 PM   #197
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

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A variation of what atmstuck said seems best. Make a schedule of online tournaments for him to play. Send him exactly how much he needs to play it that day. Confirm he played the tournaments. Have him send any winnings back immediately.
ffs

- The guy accepts he's a problem gambler and wants to stop. Forcing him to play poker is akin to slavery.

- He's also a confirmed thief, so if the morality argument doesn't interest you how about we use what's left of the money to stake another winning player with no such trust issues? Or just keep it ourselves?
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Old 06-29-2010, 05:49 PM   #198
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

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I don't think anyone has flamed him. The fact is, the dude stole a ton of money from us. You think he deserves our generosity and patience? I know people had more money than me invested in him, but I am pissed on principle. Stealing is stealing.

"Making mistakes" as you put it is a completely different situation. He lost this money on multiple nights, in multiple sessions. He then lied to multiple people about how things were going (as far as I can tell in between losing all the money) On top of all this, he also admitted to playing tournaments when he knew he was not playing optimally, which is even more tilting. When I give someone money to play, I expect that they will not register for tournaments if they aren't feeling/playing 100%.

I just don't understand why you expect his investors to have so much compassion. Screwing up is one thing, but dishonesty is a totally different situation whether you own up to it after-the-fact or not.
You have mistaken some of my points which I thought I have clearly pointed (Probably not clear enough)

1. I am SURPRISED about how generous some of his investors are, which I don't expect people to be doing so these days

2. The time that he posts here is the moment that I don't think people should keep giving him a hard time. He has admitted that he made mistakes. If any investors are still angry and keep blaming on how dishonest he was, I can totally understand, but would that achieve anything?
When these things have already been done, I can't think of a better solution than this
He has no money right now, besides finding a job, what else can he do to pay you guys back?

3. I think the key point comes to either you are going to forgive what he did or not, if not, I think it might be the best to go to talk to polices. I just don't think it makes any sense to say something like "I don't accept the time frame you plan to pay me back, I want it sooner" when every of us knows that this young man has no other options right now
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Old 06-29-2010, 07:25 PM   #199
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

Markup should be paid back to the investors in full.
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:07 PM   #200
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Re: Comprehensive WSOP package, selling shares at 1.25 (revised)

sigh. guess I played bad and ran bad.

Hope he makes it right
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