i have not read the three duplicate threads that LUCKYAMA is running in different forums. however, i am disturbed by a few things in the zoo incarnation of his threads.

1. mod ama1330 received permission to start a new name and post as a representative of lucky ace poker while at the same time keeping his mod position. here is his original zoo post:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28.../#post14425486

let it be known that at the time this was created, luckyama had a note in his location or undertitle that revealed he was aka mod ama1330. this 'disclaimer' has disappeared, giving no clue except the OP that he is both posters.

2. i raised the following question in his thread:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=107

his subsequent response was insulting and unprofessional, but due to a ninja edit, this is what remained:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=108

i answered with this:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=118

he answered with this:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=120
Note the clever white text.

further, anyone reading the entire thread will find many more abusive replies from luckyama.

not wanting a conflict, i moved on.

2. today i noticed the disclaimers were gone about the fact that he is a mod as well as a site employee of sorts.

then, i see this post today:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/54...=#post15421992

how is this not a conflict? how is this proper mod behaivor?

I think this needs to be addressed for sure.

I dont think its in best actions of this forum to be a mod and a rep for a site.
It can lead to big problems with integrity and honesty of what is to be trusted.

Good looking out GrannyMae.

GM,

I think you mean ama0330. He is a mod of the Micro Stakes NL/PL forum.

oops. my typo.

ty for the clarification. too late to edit.

o sweet the monthly GM has a really dumb complaint about something any normal person wouldn't care thread.

and we are all aware of your opinion about me as well as your alliances.

i think it would be smarter if you used a gimmick to troll me. it would afford you more credibility.

have a merry christmas.

ama0330 was recruited to be a representative for the Two Plus Two community on behalf of Lucky Ace by Two Plus Two management. He is one of many mods who will be doing this in the future, they will be acting as intermediaries between the management of the poker room they are representing and the community. Bodog also has a community representative active (Jurollo is JustinR. when repping Bodog), and there are four others pending to start that are waiting in the wings. Each rep is chosen from the pool of moderators, the rep is given a second screen name with 2+2's full blessing, and their undertitles are selected by Two Plus Two.

There are no conflicts of interest, nor is there any drama-filled story.... this new program allows high levels of communication where they did not exist prior with card rooms, thats a win-win for everyone involved.

I'm going to close this thread because there are no conflicts of interest and I'd like this thread to remain on-topic, Mat may want to add something in the morning - at which time the thread can reopen.

I don't really have anything to add. Nor do I see any problems at this point.

People can post in this thread, but I don't want anything but serious replies.

Look at the coaching thread if you need to know what a serious reply looks like. I will delete accounts that waste my time in this thread.

I don't really see a conflict of interest, and the only real potential for a conflict of interest is if, for some reason, a direct conflict arises between Two Plus Two itself and one of the sites that are being represented. In such a case, it's most likely that Two Plus Two would simply revoke the rights of said site to have a representative on site, in which case, the possibility of a conflict of interest is still removed.

Is it moonlighting/doing two different jobs in the same location, sure, but its not really a conflict. And the people chosen so far I think are great choices. I could see a slight argument that there may be some merit in having some non-moderators act as these representatives if those non-moderators were more qualified, but it seems to me like the people chosen so far seem to be doing a good job, and that's all I really care about, that the people in these roles are doing a good job.

Honestly Granny, this post you yourself quoted is horrid:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=118

You refuse to answer the question he asked, and haven't answered it here either, and then try to call him pompous and dismissive when you are being exactly that with:

Obviously, several people don't see it as a conflict. If you really feel it is a conflict, can you explain how you think it is, so we can understand?

What in the world is wrong with this? Did you reference the post you meant to reference?

Well of course we can all "envision" a possible conflict of interest. There's probably potential conflicts of interest already between what a lot of mods do and their positions here, many of which most of us don't even know about. This relationship is out in the open, and if there's a problem, it can be dealt with. I see two main potential trouble spots:

1. A mod uses their position to squelch criticism of the site they represent.
2. A mod leverages any extra respect or clout they have being a mod to tout the site they represent in other threads.

I can't see either case going unnoticed by posters, and when it is, it can be dealt with at that time.

Imo, it might lower the chances of the envision of possible conflicts if these mods / representatives would have the same account as usual. This way they would still be green and everyones sees at first sight that a post is from a mod and can easier check out if there might be a possible conflict of interest.

Without going through the threads, I would agree with Grannie that we should clearly identify the mods with outside commercial interests.

In the OP of the thread grannie is talking about he says that he is ama330 (or whatever) a moderator from uNL....

I'm going to voice my concern and leave it at that.

The potential to shill for a site is in play,and the mods integrity has to be
questioned.If you can question the mods integrity you can be lead to wonder
about the site and you can see the vicious cycle that one can get caught up in.

I have been concerned about this before GrannyMae brought it up but was not going
to voice it unless some one else had a need.
Sounds to me like this needs to be chewed over a little more or at least explained somewhere every one can see.

Thats all I have to say about this and I do enjoy this site.

The potential to shill for a site has always been in play. In this case, the person is being up front about what's going on, which should alleviate most concerns IMO. It's the ones that don't tell you who they're working for that should be a concern. Not that I think there's a lot of that going on, but the potential is there.

The intent of this program is for 2+2 admin to match poker sites up with respected 2+2'ers up in order to give these sites a clear and effective voice on 2+2. With only a few exceptions (Stars) sites have had huge problems dealing with 2+2. We've all seen the trainwrecks that usually result. Either sites throw some poor minimum wage CSR to the wolves or they send someone way over-qualified like a card room manager who is not at all used to having to deal with the general public. Hilarity ensues.

Many sites don't even try. They're terrified of 2+2 and the potential backlashes. This kind of hostile relationship doesn't benefit players at all. How often do player's problems get resolved because they get posted on 2+2? How much better would this work if there were forum representatives on hand? Representatives who know who to call/email to get things done? Forum representatives who "speak the 2+2 language" and understand the issues?

There have been mods before who have been affiliated with poker sites, training sites, rakeback affiliates, etc and it has rarely, if ever, been a problem. This is an attempt to formalize one of these arrangements to the benefit of players and posters. With 2+2 admin acting as gatekeeper. 2+2 admin has never one to take spam or other abuse of the forums lightly. I don't think they're about to start now.

Good post CMAR. 100% on point.

Some people are looking at this the wrong way. It can only help to have established 2+2ers acting as intermediaries for the community here, as opposed to some unknown randos like we've been used to. Now 2+2ers having questions or issues at some poker site can talk to one of their own. The whole point is that these guys are people you're more likely to know and be familiar with, and it's being done out in the open. Why not open up some better avenues for players/posters to communicate with sites and vice versa?

You're still going to have the irrational weirdos, rigtards, and people just trolling sites - these still need to be dealt with. Likewise, if some mod/rep gets a little out of line or too shilly, or starts some weird coverup during a scandal or something, then 2+2 has the discretion to deal with it.

my biggest issue is that his undertitle and or profile should mention him being a mod. IIRC, that was there at the beginning, but it disappeared. to say that everyone knows because he mentioned it in an OP of a random thread does not make it full disclosure.

@ ray powers.

i did not need to answer the potential conflicts because other poster's addressed it in that thread and that it really did not take much intelligence to come up with the many, many ways that this could be a conflict. if you still can't imagine how there could be a conflict, i'd be happy to make an expansive list ITT on the many different possible scenarios for abuse of this new policy. let me know if you would like the list, but i'm certain that while they may disagree with me, most people with common sense could understand the potential for problems.

IMO, his post that said something like

is a clear example of a conflict of interest in action. it's definitely a dig at FTP. would he make that post under his lucky ace account? i seriously doubt it.

would it not be more transparent if his 2 profiles both mention the alternate screen names?

i simply saw his post as a dig at a competitor, while hiding behind a supposed neutral mod name.

i was unaware that there was a pending deal that would create more situations like this. i think it should be clearly explained somewhere who these mods and and what their alternate rep. names are so that users can be aware of the fact that poker room "employees" are also known as mod x.

I agree there should be some sort of identification. The undertitle is probably best used for identifying that they are a poker room rep, however, since if that's been changed, it must've been done by an Admin and presumably would be confirmed. Perhaps the location field?

That's ridiculous. The OP posted:

After which ama posted this:

This all happened in BBV. To present this as some wolf in sheep's clothing using his powerful position as a mod to secretly undermine FTP is just absurd.

The irony is that I somewhat agree with the larger point, that transparency is always a good thing. But by looking too hard for impropriety and finding it where it doesn't seem to exist you undermine the overall argument.

i understand that you think your interpretation is correct. however, this is the way i looked at it;

i am reading the thread
i see the response from AMA
my mind Instantly says "is that the lucky ace guy?"
i look at his profile
i look at lucky ace profile
i see no mention
i am sure this must not be the same because his loc or undertitle has been altered and no longer presents the association.
i read the OP of the lucky ace thread and realize it is the same dude.

i'm not going to argue the level of egregiousness of the post i quoted. imo, i see it as a conflict. even if you don't see it my way, perhaps you can help define this murky line you are saying he did not cross. it would help to have some clear expectations wrt this new program.

The location is supposed to list the mod's main account, thats easy to fix. 2+2 Admins dictate what gets placed in the undertitle field.

I think we should note that the rep accounts do not have mod powers, they have to log off their rep accounts and log back into their mod accounts to moderate. It was designed this way to assure that they wear two separate hats, church and state so to speak.

GG on continuing the pompous post trending.

I'm reading your thread and the specific thread links you posted. I had no desire to read the entire other thread, nor was it indicated it was worth it. It also seems just plain lazy on your behalf. "Oh, I'll let others explain. It's not worth my time to actually explain my position. I just would rather complain."

I agree with BoboFatt's list of concerns here:

but I also can't picture a scenario where this would go unnoticed by posters, other mods, or the 2+2 administration. This is a VERY transparent role. There's going to have to be some amazing trickery for someone to pull off some site representative trickery without SOMEONE screaming like mad about it. Alternatively, 2+2 administration could be "in on it" and squelch criticism to someone who was paying for a representative or a certain level of advertising, or anything else, but in that case, well, this position is irrelevant. If 2+2 is going to do that, they certainly don't need these representatives around to do it.