Hell, we'll see if we can't get some discussion here.

I recently started playing in an APA league (8 and 9 ball each week). I have only played pool for about 2 months (besides random drunk bar games).

I am a 4 in 9 ball at the moment (over ranked, for sure), and a 2 in 8 ball (under ranked, for sure). My friends who are good say I am likely a high 3 at the moment.

The steps from a 2 to 3/4 were very easy. I moved up to this level in a hurry.

Is it just playing all the time to get up to 4/5 level? Are any of the drills worthwhile? I've read a few books. Really obsessive personality, and while I'll never be great I'd like to be an APA 5.

I just hate to just practice the bad things I'm doing now, so was curious if anyone had the best advice on taking the next step.

practice online, more shots/hour

reading the right books help. three that helped me a ton were:
Byrne's 'standard book of pool and billiards'
Byrnes 'advanced technique in pool and billiards'
and 'the 99 critical shots in pool'.

also, a lot of moving up from a strong 3 to a solid 4-5 is not ball making. it has to do a lot with defense and thinking about the table.
a lot of solid 3's and even a lot of 4's spend a lot of time thinking of the shot they are about to make or the leave they want. very important for sure, but they overall layout of the table matters a lot too. think about trouble spots on the table that might hinder you going out or help your opponent go out. even if it means longer games/ more innings you don't always have to go for the run. the 'chess match' games can be a lot of fun.
defense is a major part of the game. sorry for the rambling.

Drills do help. just practice one positional drill and one potting drill. Do you have your own cue? If not I'd just getting a decent cue. It's hard to advise someone without knowing what they need to improve most on.

Like for example 3-4 years ago I used to be pretty good but used to play too quickly and sometimes would miss really easy shots every now and then, so one of the professors at our university who'd been playing for like 20 years told me to have a fixed routine before every shot to help me concentrate and that helped me a ton in becoming a more consistent potter.

chim17,

I've been playing on an off for about fourteen years, but I've had gaps where I haven't played much at all for years, and i never put in a bunch of time getting in stroke because I always had jobs, grad school, other interests, poker etc. Rarely would I play more than 8 hours/wk even when I was playing a lot). I feel like I got a lot better in the past two years just by watching a lot of pool (accustats, youtube, etc.) I was a huge banger at first, which hurts because I had awful fundamentals and didn't know how to think well on a pool table, even though I'd read the classics - bryne's, etc. As far as books, I think Phil Capelle's books are much better and more complete than anything Bryne published, and Bryne published a few erroneous concepts, such as underestimating the xfer of english and throw on certain shots, especially banks, etc.) I just ended my apa career after 3 seasons because, well. . .leagues aren't that much fun. You spend too much time watching others, and the benefits of camaraderie, drinking, etc are often offset by the time commitment, league nits, annoying people etc. I was good 6 in 8-ball(I won 75% of my matches). When I did lose, it was usually to another 6 and twice to a 2 where I'd **** up somewhere. (Not really making excuses, but when the equipment sucks and the balls don't break well or roll straight, etc. things can happen and even donks can run a few balls if they're wide open. I always felt when I played a 4 or a 5 I had the nuts because I would out-think or just the extra game or two wouldn't be enough for them. It was all pubs/bar tables, so the tables mostly sucked. So basically:

-I believe leagues can a hurt a player more than help. If you really want to get better, find a room that has decent players, match up, and play longer races in a shorter amount of time. Also, good equipment is key. When I would go to the pool hall with simonis cloth and brunswicks, I would instantly regret the time I had been spending in the bar. I break and run more on 9'ers than the bar tables I play on because the balls spread better and balls don't skid as much, they don't roll off when you hit a ball soft etc.

-watch youtube/accustats vids. find someone you want to emulate. It's not going to help your pool game much to watch Efren, Bustamante, and Strickland because they all have ridiculous unconventional strokes that can't help you. (It will help your pool game seeing what they do, patterns they play, shots they play, etc) No one hits the cue ball like they do because they are all freaks - windmill stroke, slip-stroke, long-accurate bridge with inhuman accuracy etc. . . find someone that has a similar stroke to what you have and then watch what they do. It's kind of like learning by osmosis. You'll see a similar shot, remember how a certain player handled it, have the stroke in your head, and you just try to feel the way they hit it.

-jmitchell is right in that most of beating league pool is out-thinking your opponent. It's dumb to make balls for no reason rather than just putt balls around to improve your layout. That's also why watching pool is beneficial. Commentators force you to think about what is the player's heads. It's almost like hand-reading. They glance at the player and talk about what he's thinking about, and they're almost always right because great pool minds tend to think alike. Make the shot vs. playing safe is a lot of % play, etc. i played another 6 a few months ago and our first game lasted almost 35 minutes - tons of safes, clusters, etc. (we did have a small wager on the outcome amongst ourselves). Some people think watching pool is ridiculous, but I think it's fun because it's like you constantly test your own knowledge by guess what they will do, and you'll often be surprised by what they do. Even after playing people who shoot sort of straight (4s and 5s in the league) They still couldn't grasp how I was beating them easily, when I was just playing the table layout better. Breaking and making 5 balls, but not running out, vs a 6/7 is asking for it. They will always either run out, leave you really safe, or resort to safe if problems arise. If I played a 4 and the spot was that he would make all his balls, hook himself, and then give me ball in hand - EZ game.

-jmitchell said sorry for the rambling, so I should say sorry for the ramblingx7. . .

also, apa5 is almost setting the bar low if you really like pool. Like I said, I've never dedicated myself to pool, but just thinking about stuff, even away from the table will help you immensely. Weekend warriors for life!

I'd still start with Byrne's standard book personally.

well put glen. i agree about league except that it is great for the friendship and fun it can be. for sure it def won't improve your pool game a whole lot, but it is always fun to be around other players and the ones who take it super serious are just fun to laugh at. you can also make some good contacts with other good players in your town when you play on league. but yeah, spending a lot of time watching really good players play is important. also really thinkng about how you are playing, not just how well you are shooting is key imo.

This is good advice, maybe I can add a couple random thoughts. I played APA for a few years ranked as a 7 in 9-ball, and a 5 or 6 (?) in 8-ball.

Until you get up to 4, I do think the key is just playing a lot. No amount of table strategy or learning unusual shots is nearly as important as just plain fundamentals at those levels. You'll need to expand your knowledge to get to 5, but a solid 4 is just somebody who can make shots. And you have to work on that outside of the league play.

1. You need to be able to just plain pocket balls, confidently and consistently. Solo drills do help with that. Just find some basic drills on Google or in a book. I have some I like but there is nothing special about them.

2. Practice with a friend better than you who you can ask about techniques as you play. How would you play this ball? What English did you use to get that position? Just observe and try things, then you can work on them in your solo drills.

3. At your level try to always think 2 balls ahead as you choose your shots, not just 1 ball. Plan the shots. Most level 4 or under players never look beyond the next ball. On the other hand, once you choose the shot, don't let the next ball distract you from making the shot. That is rule #1 and easy to forget.

4. If you are playing nine-ball, you will need to use simple defensive shots when you can't make the shot. Don't try to make a shot you know you can't make without getting lucky. You're better off controlling the table than trying the shot you only make 20% of the time.

5. One last tip. Positioning is always easier if you can allow the ball to roll naturally instead of having to draw. You have much better speed control with neutral or top English. Choose shots accordingly. Too many beginners try to use way too much bottom. Don't.

Once you get to level 4 then you can work more on defensive strategies, advanced positioning sequences, etc. But you can get to 4 just by practicing your fundamentals and nothing else.

And just play, many hours. Play pickup games with anyone who will, but mostly try to play people a little better than you and observe them.

Thanks for the tips, everyone.

I agree league doesn't really work well with quick improvement, but the main motivation to improve is the league and my friends.

I never even considered watching videos.

learn good fundamentals while your still new best tip i can provide

I agree with Glen and jmitchell - watch videos, play on good equipmentand match up, league play is generally bad for your development as a player. I have a few to add to that:

1. Spend some time with a good instructor. Ponder made reference to learning good fundamentals, and a good instructor will help you with this. Find one who isn't looking to change everything about your mechanics, but rather incorporates sound fundamentals into what you're already physically comfortable with. You may be new enough to the game that you're not particularly comfortable with any aspect of your mechanics yet, but it's worth mentioning for those who are considering an instructor. I was an A player a few years back looking to get over the hump, saw an instructor to help correct some mechanical flaws, and it ended up hurting my game more than helping it. If something works for you, great, and if it doesn't, don't feel obligated to stick with it.

2. Play all the games. It's fine to start with 8-ball and 9-ball, but you should eventually start learning straight pool, one-pocket, and 3-cushion billiards. Each game will offer you lessons in shotmaking, safety play, and cue ball control that other games don't offer, and you'll become a more complete, well-rounded player for it.

3. The videos that helped me the most were Bert Kinister's early instructionals (most of the first 15 or so were pretty good). Actually, his first video is a must for anyone looking to improve their game. If you practice that stuff diligently, your game will grow by leaps and bounds. And the Accu-Stats videos are great for understanding pattern play - I'm partial to the older ones commentated by Grady Mathews because of his ability to articulate the thought processes of great players.

4. Enjoy the game, and remember that it's a journey, not a destination.

Above all else, try and play with very good players and watch both how they play shots and the shots they choose.

In terms of shot making, make sure your legs are in a solid and preferably symetrical position. Cue as low to your chin as possible, focus on keeping your head still and hold your breath on the stroke like you would when firing a rifle.

I feel like an idiot, whats this number ranking system..never heard of it...an american thing?

It's used in the APA league.

def agree with everyone saying to play with people better than you. that is a great way to improve. also, def focus on the fundamentals when starting out. stroke is sooooo much. nothing can hinder improvement more than having something wrong with the mechanics of your stroke. and like others have said, enjoy the game above all.

What is the best resources for fundamentals?

I learned in a hurry the biggest problem was gripping the cue too tightly. Although, I imagine I am doing a ton wrong.

besides the book and vids already suggested. playing irl with someone who can show you those things is one of the best ways.

I agree. You need to get someone to show you and watch you do the basics correctly, including stance, posture, grip, arm angle, bridges (several), stroke, aim, and pace, and then build everything else off that base.

I'll tell you a quick story the snooker club where i go it's a church club (i dont go to church just got introduced when i was younger) 3 tables very nice ones over 100 years old anyway when i first went in i had played pool and a little snooker in the past but wasn't much cop

For the first year i think my highest break was around 15 but i love the game wasin near every night and one of the older guys who goes in had a word with me about my cueing he said my head was moving on my shots so i tried to be still every shot it was strange at first but my potting got better though that little bit of advice

The next thing what was holding me back was position i was banging balls in cause i thought it looked good i'd seen pros do it on tele now the guy who had a word ironed the tables down at the club still does said come down and we will have a couple of frames so i did (just to go off topic a little playing on a table whats just been ironed is awesome) he went though shots and for around a year after i was playing like that all about position it pi**** me right off i was missing pots thinking too much but then one day bang 36 break and felt on top of the world

For some reason my game totally changed after that night and i was getting better and better then one day i was playing around a year and half ago i was playing **** really bad then all of a sudden there was 5 reds left on i cleaned the lot up 63 break i know it's not pro standard but boy i felt awesome the buzz was unreal

The best part of the story is the guy who helped me his highest break is 18 mabye it's cause of his age (82 now) got playing the game late but advice is pricless because you cant see what others can about your game if anyone says anything to you take it onboard, sorry about going ment to be quick lol

don't apologize. that is a great story.

i'm a huge fan of forcefollow's youtube channel. his website also has a very very good archive of videos that cover all the fundamentals and more.

One non-playing exercise I recommend is to watch a good player(s) at a local tournament and try to guess what shot he is going to play. I used to watch all the really good pros like this and then assess why they played a shot a certain way if I guessed wrong. It's a really good way to get you thinking about certain patterns for position.

honestly. gamble.

This is gonna be the best advice altho i havent read any ones replies. Gamble with better players for cheap amounts you'll obv lose but w/e its cheap pool and a good experience. Pay close attention after your finished getting your brains beat out practice by your self. Try to be around good pool players,
No offense but pool leagues are usually for fish just being honest I mean If you wanna get serious into the game which I don't rec b/c you put a ton into and most ppl get nothing out even some of the best players, but any way. hang around good players try play as much as you can and gamble it up with good players playing under pressure and practicing is completely diff! any way I can blabber all night gn gl hit me up if theres anything I can help you with in ur game

I absolutely agree with this.