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10-01-2010 , 09:24 AM
This is an amateur nine ball problem. You are playing on a well maintained regulation US pool table, and your opponent is an OK amateur, able to string together simple shots, but bad at anything complex.




Solution
Spoiler:

Problem of the week number seven looks on the face of it to be a pretty mundane spot late in a game of nine ball. We are up against a weak opponent, with two key options - attack or play safe. Many players just view this as a pretty simple table bank and play super aggressive here, but a careful analysis of the situation throws up some different answers.

The key question you should always ask yourself when confronted with a hard pot or an easy(ish) safety shot is whether the safety shot will win you the game a higher percentage of the time than the chance you have at the pot. In this case, against a weak amateur, it is basically always yes. People often forget how important sound safety play is in destroying amateur players, and although TV pool can look like an endless battle of clearances at nearly any cost, the amateur game is a very different kettle of fish.

In this specific situation, you are also aided by the fact that you have a safety shot which carries a very large chance of a snooker – a huge bonus. With the nine in the middle of the table and against a pro, the table double/bank shot is probably correct, but in this spot you should play this shot (sorry to steal the diagrams from the excellent Dying Actors but they are basically perfect):




Also, someone brought up the double kiss on the black with the intention of sending the white up the table. If this was tight on the cushion, this shot is maybe just on (and even then it is a very hard shot and not worth the risk reward), but with the black off the cushion the shot is near suicidal - if you are curious set it up a few times from various spots and see for yourself.

Solution:

You should play the thin safety on the right hand side of the black, and try and get the white behind the nine.

Last edited by gregorio; 10-07-2010 at 10:38 AM.
Problem of the week 7.
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Problem of the week 7.
10-01-2010 , 09:44 AM
I'd probably play the long double. If you miss it's unlikely he'll clear, as long as you play it at such a pace where it neither stays in the jaws nor comes back up the table past the middle pocket. But then again, I never refuse a pot.
10-01-2010 , 09:47 AM
either i just lay the white on top of the black here, or just double it back on to the centre of the bottom cushion.
10-01-2010 , 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brickie
But then again, I never refuse a pot.
Wiser words can never be spoken lol.
10-01-2010 , 03:41 PM
I like a double to the bottom left corner by the 9. If we miss there is a decent chance we block the 8 with the 9 as long as we play it at the right pace. There are no easy safeties that I can see with only 2 balls left.
10-01-2010 , 05:14 PM
White off the left cushion and pot the black leaves u on a long shot for the 9 in bottom corner not an easy shot but very dooable either that its got to be move black safe leavin white tight as u can against the cushion
10-01-2010 , 08:37 PM
I play safe. Clip the 8-ball on the right side side and send the cueball on the long rail towards the 9ball.

best case = the cueball ends close to the left short rail behind the 9ball forcing a kick on the 8 , which wont move much and land close to where it is now.
worst case = long thin cut on the 8ball , with no guaranteed shape for the 9ball.

I'll play this against an "OK amateur" .If playing a pro, I'll just go for the bank.
10-02-2010 , 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9ball
I play safe. Clip the 8-ball on the right side side and send the cueball on the long rail towards the 9ball.

best case = the cueball ends close to the left short rail behind the 9ball forcing a kick on the 8 , which wont move much and land close to where it is now.
worst case = long thin cut on the 8ball , with no guaranteed shape for the 9ball.

I'll play this against an "OK amateur" .If playing a pro, I'll just go for the bank.
i like it.
10-03-2010 , 11:10 AM
Shoot straight into the eight and double kiss cue ball back down table leaving opponent basically the same shot.
10-05-2010 , 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Behmer
Shoot straight into the eight and double kiss cue ball back down table leaving opponent basically the same shot.
This is doable at close range(<1 diamond). Its extremely difficult to do in this situation.
10-05-2010 , 09:58 PM
I'd be just chipping the black onto the bottom cushion as we look, forcing my opponent to take on the double or attempt a safety
10-06-2010 , 01:48 AM
well ive had some time to think about this problem. i think going for the double would be a mistake. if opponent is just an ok amateur, then we shouldnt be gambling with a shot that we probably wont make and could easily end up in front of the pocket for a simple run out.

i think the prior suggestion of clipping the 8 and sending the cueball towards the 9 is the best suggestion. you'll never leave opponent with a good shot, and there is a chance you might leave him with a really tough time just to hit the 8.

10-06-2010 , 04:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9ball
This is doable at close range(<1 diamond). Its extremely difficult to do in this situation.
it really isn't. a buddy of mine showed me this one and it is way easier than i thought. just aim straight on, med speed, with some draw and it works like a charm.

Last edited by jmitchell42; 10-06-2010 at 04:13 AM. Reason: it isn't a delicate shot
10-06-2010 , 04:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmitchell42
it really isn't. a buddy of mine showed me this one and it is way easier than i thought. just aim straight on, med speed, with some draw and it works like a charm.
Go ahead and try it 10 times ; see how many times you nail it. . Bear in mind that the 8ball is not frozen to the rail.
10-06-2010 , 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9ball
Go ahead and try it 10 times ; see how many times you nail it. . Bear in mind that the 8ball is not frozen to the rail.
true. the ball probably isn't close enough to the rail. when it is though, it is not hard at all to do.
10-06-2010 , 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmitchell42
true. the ball probably isn't close enough to the rail. when it is though, it is not hard at all to do.
Can you explain why the ball (the 8ball i assume) being closer to the rail would affect the shot that much. It's still the same angle but there's something I'm missing obviously.

Also, what do you mean by draw
10-06-2010 , 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheYellow
Can you explain why the ball (the 8ball i assume) being closer to the rail would affect the shot that much. It's still the same angle but there's something I'm missing obviously.

Also, what do you mean by draw
just seems to be a little more forgiving if it is closer to the rail. if you hit it fairly solid (not too hard though) with bottom english, the cue ball will kill the other ball against the rail, and come right back to where you shot it from. a buddy showed me that a while back. haven't used it much, but practice it from time to time.
10-06-2010 , 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmitchell42
just seems to be a little more forgiving if it is closer to the rail. if you hit it fairly solid (not too hard though) with bottom english, the cue ball will kill the other ball against the rail, and come right back to where you shot it from. a buddy showed me that a while back. haven't used it much, but practice it from time to time.
I'd imagine that if the 8-ball is on the cushion then it'd be much harder to make the long bank because you have no angles to work with if you know what I mean. If the 8 is off the cushion then you can see how it'd come off the cushion however you'd hit it.

Also, if you put a lot of backspin and hit the 8 relatively full don't we risk the white going in?

EDIT: Thought we were coming at the 8 from the left. Woops
10-06-2010 , 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmitchell42
true. the ball probably isn't close enough to the rail. when it is though, it is not hard at all to do.
Even if its frozen, its not easy.
Assuming well maintained regulation 9ft table, controlling double kisses on long shots is not something done very often

Also, you have to think about what this shot accomplish.

Basically if you pull it off, you give your opponent the same shot, and if you miss you sellout.

In contrast with lets say banking it to top left corner, where if you make it you win, and if you miss you sellout.

Last edited by 9ball; 10-06-2010 at 08:38 PM.
10-06-2010 , 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheYellow
Can you explain why the ball (the 8ball i assume) being closer to the rail would affect the shot that much. It's still the same angle but there's something I'm missing obviously.

Also, what do you mean by draw
The reason is that any error (eg hitting the 8ball slightly left or right) is greatly amplified when the object ball(8ball in this case) if further from the rail. I could draw a picture, but im too lazy


Last edited by 9ball; 10-06-2010 at 08:36 PM. Reason: not too lazy after all
10-07-2010 , 05:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9ball
Even if its frozen, its not easy.
Assuming well maintained regulation 9ft table, controlling double kisses on long shots is not something done very often

Also, you have to think about what this shot accomplish.

Basically if you pull it off, you give your opponent the same shot, and if you miss you sellout.

In contrast with lets say banking it to top left corner, where if you make it you win, and if you miss you sellout.
having done it quite a bit, it really isn't that hard. it was kind of funny really. the object ball really is just killed on the rail. but meh, i'm not here to argue about anything.

since most people don't know about it, giving them the same shot really isn't that bad of an idea, and since the object ball doesn't move, if you are off a little with the cue, you still leave them with a pretty tough shot if it doesn't come straight back.

not saying this is how i would play this shot in a reg match, but def one idea. agree or disagree, it is a fun shot to shoot since it looks harder than it is.

Last edited by jmitchell42; 10-07-2010 at 05:20 AM. Reason: fairly sure i wouldn't try the bank to win though. there is a safety there.
10-07-2010 , 10:33 AM
Bump for solution added to OP
Problem of the week 7.
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Problem of the week 7.

      
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