Going to try and include the odd handicapping question as there was some interest in this topic in my well so will try do three questions per problem, one beginner, one amateur, and one advanced, each with a question.

Beginner:

A complete stranger approaches you while watching you play snooker. You are quite a poor standard (not many breaks over 10-20), and they have been watching long enough to know this. He asks you to play snooker for money, offering to let you either double the value of your points each break, or to half the value of his (rounding down on odd numbers) - which option should you take (if any)?

Should your choice change if asked by a player you know to be OK but not great (can't really build breaks above 30-40 as a rough skill guide)?

Amateur:

You are a skilled amateur playing nine ball with a near pro level player and bartering over handicaps. He offers you either:

a) The break, and the seven and eight (if you pot either of these balls you win - they still have to pot only the nine).

or:

b) The break and the five.

Which should you take?

Advanced:

You are near pro standard and playing a rich amateur at straight pool for very low stakes. He is quite a poor player, really only able to string together 3 or 4 balls in a row before running out of position or missing, and you are playing short races to 25. He offers to start playing for big cash, but only under the condition that apart from break shots, you are not allowed to touch the cushion with the cue ball (doing so will give him ball in hand and end your visit - no points foul). Should you agree to this?

Should your decision change if he offers a similar deal, only instead of him getting ball in hand if you hit the rail, you get to continue your visit, with him getting one point per cushion contact added to his score?

Solution

Beginner:

I like to Cut his breaks in half, since alot of my breaks will involve single reds and doubling that would do me no good.

Amateur:

Break and the 5 ball. Having the 7 and 8 means that I have to virtually clear out to win the rack anyways as I assume they don't count on the break. Having the 5 gives me the chance of winning some cheap racks.

I just posted these from my phone, will make a more detailed post later after some replies.

beginner question: same as exec for similar reasons, if we're scoring more than half of what he scores it doesn't really matter, if it's more than that we're obv +ev, if the score was (say) 80-20, knocking it back to 40-20 is closer than bumping us up to 80-40

amateur: i actually prefer the break and 7+8. gives us an extra ball in play that'll give us the win if sunk off the break/in a combination etc, if we're a skilled amateur then i think the extra ev from that makes up for the rare times where we'd sink the 5 but then don't then manage to get the win, which as a skilled amateur shouldn't really happen very often.

don't know about the pro question, my thought would be no as not being able to use cushions really limits us

doesn't actually matter whether you double yours or half his. its the same deal both ways, you have to do better than 50% of what he shoots. but since you round down on his, you should take that. and this option also covers you from getting destroyed.
take the 7 and 8, as this gives you more chances to golden break and combo out. if youre a skilled amateur there shouldn't be much of a difference between getting to the 5 or getting to the 7.

i wouldnt take the initial deal, but i might take the second deal. depends if i thought his poor playing abilities were being exaggerated or not. but if he was genuinely only able to make 3 or 4 in a row, id take the second deal. its easy enough to either use no rail or 1 rail for every shot in straight pool.

nit.

nearly every shot, i should say.

Beginner: No idea. I don't know **** about snooker handicapping.

Amateur: The 5 and the break, and it's not even close. If I'm giving the 7/8 and the break, the 7 and 8 are getting racked right behind the 1, so they won't be hanging near a pocket very often, reducing combo opportunities. Any top player will do this as well. A skilled amateur with a decent break is getting out to the 5 often enough to make this a close game.

Pro: We need to define ball in hand - is it truly ball in hand, or is it behind the headstring? If it's behind the headstring, this is a great game for us - we can stall and really milk this game for some cash. If it's truly ball in hand, the game is a lot closer and we have to play well, but it's still a winnable game. Playing the second game, a point per ball, will force us to play conservatively - we really can't afford to get out of line. If a few balls end up downtable, this game could turn around on us in a hurry. A top straight pool player will be able to navigate this game, but few others will.

taking either bet a complete stranger proposes is likely to be stupid. when they have been watching your game before making the offer it's undoubtedly stupid.

It says you a near pro level so you should be able to navigate this game as a top amateur so a pro shouldnt have much of a problem

1 i'd be cutting his breaks in half and doubling my points potting a red and a black is 16 points ( john vergo said a couple of years a go 'if you make a 40-50 break every frame you play you have got a good shot of becoming world champ) he wouldn't make that comment now the standard has gone way up in the last 2 years

2 i'd take the 7 and 8 you have got 3 shots if you get a chance with the 5 only 2 but dont play much 9 ball so may be wrong

3 i'd snap take this offer up even if you break and hit a cushion he's not clearing the balls up so you will get a shot it's like freerolling a 3-4 handicap

Sorry should have included in OP. Is ball in hand anywhere on the table, such as you would receive in nine ball.

I should have elaborated. When I say top straight pool player, I'm talking about the best players in the world, not an average pro or near pro who happens to be able to tear off a high run. You get out of line a couple times, get a few too many balls close to the rail, or end up with a few balls downtable, and the number of rails you hit could easily catch up with you.

The game has changed an awful lot in the last 30 -40 years. It used to be that guys were raised on straight pool and learned minimal cue ball movement. Now they're raised on 9-ball and learn that you can get the same result by hitting the ball a little harder and using a cushion to slow the cue ball down.

yeah i understand what your saying harris but even with using the cushion your not goin to use it every shot therefore in a short race to 25 like this if you have a few balls near the cushions you ll lose a few points but you should still manage to get to 25 first, Just slow down your game alot and like you said use minimal cue ball movement. After a few attempts a good standard player should be able to adjust to these rules and wipe the floor with this guy and take his money

decided definatly wouldnt take this deal as i believe you are at a great disadvantage with him getting the ball in hand and your visit ending.


would snap his hand off at this , with the race so short i think id be at a great advantage and would wipe the floor with him

agree on accepting this game but the short race doesn't make it better it makes it worse...

Meh, maybe

A good standard player never, ever books a win playing this game. Good standard players don't have the knowledge of the stack necessary to open the balls up, keep them off the cushions, and continue their run without contacting a cushion. That's not a knock on those players, but it's just the evolution of the game - players have learned the multiple-rail patterns used in 9-ball and applied them to straight pool. We're not playing on slow, worsted cloth anymore, so cue ball movement in straight pool isn't necessarily a bad thing anymore. But a player who is not either 1) a top straight pool player, like the top European players or top pros from the Northeast, or 2) a strong-playing straight pool specialist, is getting jammed up here.

Your big adjustment is going to have to be to shorten your run every time you get out of line. So imagine the game goes like this. You lose the lag or the flip and have to break first. Standard straight pool break, you're giving him 2-3 points right out of the gate. You leave an open ball for your opponent. He tries to slow roll it into the pocket but hangs it up. In order to get into the stack, you'll have to contact another cushion. So right there, you're spotting this guy 12-16% of the points he needs to win. You get out of line after a couple balls and have to end your run. Some of the balls are sitting near the rails. You think he's touching them? Nope, they're for you to enjoy. At my best, I was a 100 ball runner, and while I would have played this game for no other reason than youthful pride, I could not have won in the long run. I agree with SiQ that the short race makes it tough on us - you can't afford to have a bad rack, but in a longer race, you'll have some time to get into a groove and can afford a few early errors.

This game reminds me of a 9-ball game I watched years ago between a couple locals. One was an awful player, couldn't run 3 balls if his life depended on it. The other was a 18 year old kid who played a hair under pro speed. The spot was a span, meaning the bad player could move the cue ball a full hand span before every one of his shots. After a few sets, the kid's backer pulled up - he couldn't win.

The other spot, since it's true ball in hand after you hit a cushion, is even worse. Truly great players will outrun that spot, but no one else will.

you wouldnt lose any points as stated in the op and its only the cue ball that cant touch the cushion doesnt matter bout other balls unless im reading it wrong

im confused, why cant you sink 2-4 balls, get out of line, and hit a cushion on your next shot to continue your run? if youre playing at this kinda pace, you'll win handedly.

(and there is no penalty on break shots.)

Missed that part. Reading comprehension ftw.

I'm not saying you can't have a game like that and win easily. But put this to the test. Give yourself a decent break shot to start with, run the balls using as few rails as possible, and see how many cushions you touch. Remember, you will almost always be the one opening up the balls in this game - your opponent may be a crappy player, but he's probably not an idiot, and he's the one who offered the game at high stakes, so he has a strategy in mind. Maybe I'm a nit for thinking about it this way, but having played more gaffe games than I care to remember, I can say from experience that it's usually not nearly as easy in execution as it sounds in theory.

i wish i could put it to the test. figures this forum starts a month after i move outta my old place where i had my own table for 3 years.

and now i live in naperville, il where i cant find a decent pool hall ANYWHERE? wtf

/vent

Pool is dead here, too, DA. There's a room not far from me that has ****ty equipment and a loud jukebox, but nothing else within a half hour drive. I used to make frequent road trips, but good rooms are fewer and further between, and a few rooms that used to be great have really deteriorated or just closed down.

bump for solution added to OP