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Problem of the week 3. Problem of the week 3.

09-02-2010 , 06:29 AM
Problem of the week number three is an amateur snooker problem, one that sees us playing a good amateur player in a weekly league game. The table is a well cut and well maintained regulation English snooker table, and the opponent in question is more than capable of building simple breaks of over thirty or more, but struggles with the more skilled aspects of break building - such as breaking up packs of balls, bringing problem balls into play off cushions, any kind of rail shot, and long potting.



Both the following questions in this problem assume that you have just potted a red and now have a choice of the colours, and that none of the reds in the pack currently pot or are easy plants. What is the correct shot if you are:

a) Trailing 62-1,

or:

b) Leading 57-0.

For the more advanced players, should there be any change of shot in either of these situations if you are playing a top pro instead of an amateur?

Spoiler:

Problem of the week number three sees us in pretty standard amateur snooker territory. The loose reds have all been cleared, most of the colours remain on their spots, and we have just knocked in a red and left ourself the choice of the colours. Question a) is a complete non question – we trail by a huge margin, desperately need to get a decent score in, and the only shot you can ever take here is to pot the black and screw into the reds.

Question b) is the polar opposite – this is a near complete coin flip depending on how comfortable you feel with the two relevant shots. Potting the black to leave your opponent needing snookers is fine, as is trying to get a colour near the cushion and leave your opponent snookered/very far into baulk. Both give you very high winning percentage chances against an amateur player – and either answer is OK in this spot depending on the exact nuances of your game.

I tried to design this problem with the intention of finding a good coin flip spot in amateur snooker, but one that changed a great deal if your opponent was a professional, so here is some analysis in how and why the correct shot selection would usually change against a world class player.

Although a colour safe on the cushion is a hindrance to all players, pro standard players can usually negotiate these balls pretty easily, either simply potting them down the relevant rail or moving them out with a cannon. Not only that, but a snooker/safety is pretty worthless vs a top player here, as at very best they will simply roll dead weight off of one cushion and nudge into the pack – leaving you facing a long and gruelling safety game vs a pro.

Secondly, pro standard players have little problem playing on and winning needing two or more snookers against amateurs, so simply potting the eight and playing safe will often leave a similar situation as just playing the safety in the first place, and there is actually very little difference between these shots against a pro – a snooker is just not a very big advantage for you.

This leaves only the original shot – the black and the canon into the pack. This is nearly always the correct shot against a pro, as it leaves you with a very solid chance to win the frame at that visit (realistically one more red and a colour should leave any player sitting down). Against all very good players in snooker your primary concern is to keep them in their seat for as long as possible, and if you are outmatched by your opponent by a very large margin you should usually be looking to take a slightly bigger risk on a certain shot(s) if they hugely reduce the possible future risk.

Although you may well miss the black, split the reds, and lose the frame without out another shot 10-20% of the time, the rest of the time you will usually win, as opposed to taking on two shots that you are unlikely to miss, but ones that still leave your opponent a large percentage chance of winning the frame.

Just as you should rarely push small edges against weak poker players, and choose to wait for better spots; but often should push small edges against good players as you may not find better future opportunities, so it is in this problem, where the solution drastically changes depending on the ability of your opponent and how that effects the winning percentages in the end game of the frame.

Solution: In a) you should pot the black and break into the pack. In b) against an amateur you should either push a colour onto the rail and leave the white at the baulk end or roll the black in dead weight and play safe next shot; but against a pro you should play the same shot as in a).

Last edited by gregorio; 09-09-2010 at 08:24 AM.
09-02-2010 , 06:38 AM
I have never played snooker at anything approaching a good standard, but I imagine I would :

a) play into the cluster of reds, look to bring one or two into play and get a good white behind the brown

b) look to get the same cue ball position but put a red safe on the cushion
09-02-2010 , 07:28 AM
alternatively the same shots and try to get the cueball tight on the cushion behind the black
09-02-2010 , 08:31 AM
The shot should be the same infront or behind (if your an average player and infront just take the black and forget about position)

The shot i'm playing there (name the reds 1,2,3,4 1 being close to the pink going clockwise) potting the black going into the 2 red freeing 3 and 4 to the bottom right and pushing the 2 into the 1 the one going one side of the pink and the 2 going up straight past it bringing all 4 into open play

You could play the same shot into the 4 ball but the cue ball would be alot harder to control plus if you screw straight into the bottom one you have a risk of sticking onto it leaving nothing but a saftey shot on
09-02-2010 , 08:35 AM
if leading i just clip fine off the green and try to leave it on the side cushion with the cue ball behind yellow/brown. if i get a snooker it should end the game right there. i don't want to take the black now even though potting it makes him need snookers, as i then need to open the reds with my next shot, and the angle looks somewhat in-offy. set it up so he can't clear and let him open them.

if behind, i obv need to pot black, and i go into them. likely going to need a ton of screw from that angle. that assumes nothing plants to the top right as we look that we can hold for, they look close.

against a good pro i just pot the black if leading and then try to knock a red safe
09-02-2010 , 08:44 AM
Haha i should really read the full OP
09-02-2010 , 09:14 AM
a) Pot the black, go into the reds

b) Hit the brown against the baulk cushion, try and get close behind the yellow.
09-02-2010 , 09:43 AM
a) pot black and screw into the reds.

b) roll black in and play safe.

This one's really just a maths problem.
09-02-2010 , 11:00 AM
FWIW, I think that someone better than me should probably pot the black if they're ahead, but I wouldn't be confident enough in my ability to play safely off the group of reds and not leave one on.
09-02-2010 , 11:26 AM
Do the scores represent the scoreboard or the actual frame score after the red is potted?

Also, how do you do your images?
09-02-2010 , 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banzai
Do the scores represent the scoreboard or the actual frame score after the red is potted?
The scoreboard

Quote:
Also, how do you do your images?
Ms paint and photobucket.
09-02-2010 , 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamee999
FWIW, I think that someone better than me should probably pot the black if they're ahead, but I wouldn't be confident enough in my ability to play safely off the group of reds and not leave one on.
This is a good answer. I can't do analysis for every problem at every level (hence the reason I split the problems into three groups), but it would be great to get some in thread discussion about how people view any of the problems relative to their ability to cater for as many people as possible per problem.
09-05-2010 , 06:04 PM
Against this opponent in both situations we should be potting the relatively straight forward black and trying to develop a red.

Against a pro if we're ahead I'd prob play the brown onto the baulk cushion and try get behind the yellow
09-06-2010 , 02:59 PM
Grunch...

if i'm losing i'd be going for broke so i'd be cannoning off the black to try and split the reds..

if i was ahead bearing mind there's a possible 66 on the the table i'd be rolling the black in then looking to play safe off the reds..
09-07-2010 , 01:00 PM
a) screw the black in and split the reds

b) since the potting the black leaves our opponent needing a snooker, it seems b est just to drop it in then play safe off the reds. I guess we could play safe off the the brown and try and leave it on a cushion, but it's better to leave our opp needing snookers surely?
09-09-2010 , 08:26 AM
Solution added to OP

      
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